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amincd (OP)
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November 15, 2013, 02:18:03 AM
Last edit: November 15, 2013, 05:13:56 AM by amincd |
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All this talk about how Bitcoin's anonymity features enables crime misses an important fact: those same features enable us to fight crime.
Community watch groups can post rewards for information leading to the arrest of a criminal, and offer to pay the person who provided the information anonymously with Bitcoin.
This would allow people to do things such as take a picture of someone engaged in criminal activity, and upload it to the Crime Stopper's website, with a bitcoin address embedded in the picture. If the criminal is then caught, the community watch group would send the reward to the bitcoin address without having to meet the recipient or get their banking details.
Anonymous payments reduce the risk for people reporting crimes and receiving rewards for the information they provide. It increases the ability to fight crime in a decentralized fashion. It reduces the ability of violent and dangerous individuals to keep those in their community silent through fear.
Edit:
The reason you should want to see this happen is that if Bitcoin's digital cash features, like anonymity, are used by law enforcement to fight crime, the likelihood of regulations being passed against the use of Bitcoin will be less.
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"This isn't the kind of software where we can leave so many unresolved bugs that we need a tracker for them." -- Satoshi
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Kouye
Sr. Member
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Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.
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November 15, 2013, 02:27:18 AM |
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All this talk about how Bitcoin's anonymity features enables crime misses an important fact: those same features enable us to fight crime.
Community watch groups can post rewards for information leading to the arrest of a criminal, and offer to pay the person who provided the information anonymously with Bitcoin.
This would allow people to do things such as take a picture of someone engaged in criminal activity, and upload it to the Crime Stopper's website, with a bitcoin address embedded in the picture. If the criminal is then caught, the community watch group would send the reward to the bitcoin address without having to meet the recipient or get their banking details.
Anonymous payments reduce the risk for people reporting crimes and receiving rewards for the information they provide. It increases the ability to fight crime in a decentralized fashion. It reduces the ability of violent and dangerous individuals to keep those in their community silent through fear.
This forum really needs a built-in puking smiley. |
[OVER] RIDDLES 2nd edition --- this was claimed. Look out for 3rd edition! I won't ever ask for a loan nor offer any escrow service. If I do, please consider my account as hacked. |
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Notanon
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November 15, 2013, 02:37:50 AM |
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Or use the current value of them to buy enough materials to build your own Batsuit and fight crime head on.
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Peter Todd
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Activity: 1120
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November 15, 2013, 02:39:09 AM |
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+1 Very clever.
And fighting crime aside, remember that without financial privacy, you're giving every single person you pay information that invites crime, such as how many Bitcoins they can take from you by force.
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Pente
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November 15, 2013, 03:00:20 AM |
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+1 Very clever.
And fighting crime aside, remember that without financial privacy, you're giving every single person you pay information that invites crime, such as how many Bitcoins they can take from you by force.
Yea, I should probably change my signature too! |
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amincd (OP)
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November 15, 2013, 03:02:42 AM
Last edit: November 15, 2013, 03:17:40 AM by amincd |
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If we could get a trial program up and running in a local community, with bitcoin rewards for crime tips, that would do a lot for Bitcoin's image. Also, Bitcoin payments wouldn't just help with local crime-fighting. Informants in large criminal organizations involved in high-profile crime could anonymously provide incriminating information about their organization's activities, along with their bitcoin address, and even disclose that information publicly to the public, and be rewarded anonymously. you're giving every single person you pay information that invites crime, such as how many Bitcoins they can take from you by force. Good point. |
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Kouye
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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.
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November 15, 2013, 03:05:58 AM |
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If we could get a trial program up and running, with bitcoin rewards for crime tips, that would do a lot for Bitcoin's image. Also, Bitcoin payments wouldn't just help with local crime-fighting. Informants in large criminal organizations involved in high-profile crime could anonymously provide incriminating information about their organization's activities, along with their bitcoin address, and even disclose that information publicly, and be rewarded anonymously. you're giving every single person you pay information that invites crime, such as how many Bitcoins they can take from you by force. Good point. Excellent. Can I disclose information about my butcher, too? He looks like an asian musulman, and I saw him giving away FREE candies to underaged dogs. |
[OVER] RIDDLES 2nd edition --- this was claimed. Look out for 3rd edition! I won't ever ask for a loan nor offer any escrow service. If I do, please consider my account as hacked. |
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amincd (OP)
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November 15, 2013, 04:29:07 AM
Last edit: November 15, 2013, 04:46:10 AM by amincd |
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This needs to be brought up as there are hearings right now about Bitcoin with Homeland Security.
Bitcoin should not be seen as helpful to crime in general. It changes the dynamics of how we interact, which will make some crimes easier to commit, and others more difficult. Overall, a more connected and advanced community will have less crime than a more primitive and less connected one, which suggests Bitcoin would reduce crime overall.
Bitcoin is also an excellent canary in the coal mine for exposing computer security holes. I remember Mike Caldwell making this point before. From an esponiage standpoint, it's better that people lose money and discover that their security is compromised, than for computers to remain exposed, and their information compromised for years without the owner's knowledge.
In this way, Bitcoin can be seen as a catalyst for improvements to cyber security, which is a critical national security issue.
These benefits of Bitcoin stem from its qualities as a decentralized electronic cash, and would vanish if its anonymity and other cash-like properties disappeared.
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mises
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November 15, 2013, 04:33:58 AM |
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I don't see how this is any better than the current reward system for reporting crimes.
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exstasie
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November 15, 2013, 04:46:03 AM |
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The amount of bad far out ways the amount of good in terms of fighting crime. I work in payment fraud and the number of account takeovers to buy bitcoins is unreal over the last month, most likely due to the increase in value. As someone else mentioned, there isn't much new BTC can do in terms of fighting fraud vs. what using BTC for fraud can do.
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amincd (OP)
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November 15, 2013, 04:53:32 AM |
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I suspect that's because you're dealing with electronic money. It's like the whole Silk Road controversy. Silk Road didn't grow the drug trade, it just moved some of it to the internet.
As Bitcoin expands the use of electronic money, we'll see more crime dealing with electronic money. Instead of physical theft, we'll see digital theft.
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exstasie
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November 15, 2013, 05:00:23 AM |
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I suspect that's because you're dealing with electronic money. It's like the whole Silk Road controversy. Silk Road didn't grow the drug trade, it just moved some of it to the internet.
As Bitcoin expands the use of electronic money, we'll see more crime dealing with electronic money. Instead of physical theft, we'll see digital theft.
Yes, it definitely is driving fraud online, but we've been dealing with electronic money fraud since 2005. Nothing really new, just seeing an influx going towards BTC related goods. It's easy for law enforcement to track online fraud right now..that is until the money is converted to BTC...then it makes it a challenge to track and pinpoint to a specific user. |
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Rupture
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November 15, 2013, 05:07:44 AM |
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This idea is pretty retarded IMO
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niothor
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November 15, 2013, 06:45:32 AM |
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All this talk about how Bitcoin's anonymity features enables crime misses an important fact: those same features enable us to fight crime.
Community watch groups can post rewards for information leading to the arrest of a criminal, and offer to pay the person who provided the information anonymously with Bitcoin.
This would allow people to do things such as take a picture of someone engaged in criminal activity, and upload it to the Crime Stopper's website, with a bitcoin address embedded in the picture. If the criminal is then caught, the community watch group would send the reward to the bitcoin address without having to meet the recipient or get their banking details.
Anonymous payments reduce the risk for people reporting crimes and receiving rewards for the information they provide. It increases the ability to fight crime in a decentralized fashion. It reduces the ability of violent and dangerous individuals to keep those in their community silent through fear.
Edit:
The reason you should want to see this happen is that if Bitcoin's digital cash features, like anonymity, are used by law enforcement to fight crime, the likelihood of regulations being passed against the use of Bitcoin will be less.
Well , in this case bitcoin payments (rewards) have no upper hand over other kind of payments. Bitcoin has it's strength in anonymous transactions between 2 people. In this case , only the payer (donor) has to be anonymous. Paysafecards (?) available in like 1 million places and around 10 times easier to buy? |
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amincd (OP)
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November 15, 2013, 06:50:03 AM |
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If someone doesn't want to be known to police, but is still willing to divulge information for a reward, they would prefer anonymous payments over a bank transfer or a face to face cash transfer.
If playsafecards have all of the characteristics of bitcoin, then could play the role of anonymous payment method as well, but I'm guessing their features are more limited.
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Cyberdyne
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November 15, 2013, 06:55:25 AM |
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I definitely think bitcoin could help to fight crime. For example, with bitcoin in the world, Venezuelan citizens have more of a chance to fight back against criminals like Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro. |
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tspacepilot
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I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
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November 15, 2013, 07:02:05 AM |
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I don't want crime nor do I want to fight it. I'm crime neutral.
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niothor
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November 15, 2013, 07:17:08 AM
Last edit: November 15, 2013, 07:29:32 AM by niothor |
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If someone doesn't want to be known to police, but is still willing to divulge information for a reward, they would prefer anonymous payments over a bank transfer or a face to face cash transfer.
If playsafecards have all of the characteristics of bitcoin, then could play the role of anonymous payment method as well, but I'm guessing their features are more limited.
This is what I alrady said. Bitcoin is anonymous between 2 persons. As long as it doesn't involve shipping goods to some address. Paysafe cards can be anonymous too , but only for the user. The receiver or the merchant it's not. So right now , everybody can donate in order to find some criminal. Why the advantage of the p2p fails? Because your system can't work without a core , because somebody has to verify the information. Otherwise I would myself put bounties on some people the moment it is launched just for fun. Also , without a central core to verify the info , how can you prevent people from reporting and afterwards giving info of fictional criminals (photos of people dead for ages) ? |
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amincd (OP)
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November 15, 2013, 09:12:37 AM |
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Maybe I'm not understanding you. Just to clarify: I'm suggesting that a known party, like a neighborhood watch group, offer rewards for tips leading to an arrest. The person providing information is anonymous. The person giving the reward is not. So payer is known and the receiver is anonymous. In this scenario, the neighborhood watch group verifies the information before sending the reward to the bitcoin address of the person providing the information. Paysafe cards can be anonymous too , but only for the user. The receiver or the merchant it's not. So they wouldn't work for what I'm suggesting, which is that the receiver, who provided the information, is anonymous, and the payer is known. |
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niothor
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November 15, 2013, 10:07:53 AM |
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Maybe I'm not understanding you. Just to clarify: I'm suggesting that a known party, like a neighborhood watch group, offer rewards for tips leading to an arrest. The person providing information is anonymous. The person giving the reward is not. So payer is known and the receiver is anonymous. In this scenario, the neighborhood watch group verifies the information before sending the reward to the bitcoin address of the person providing the information. Paysafe cards can be anonymous too , but only for the user. The receiver or the merchant it's not. So they wouldn't work for what I'm suggesting, which is that the receiver, who provided the information, is anonymous, and the payer is known. you example bitcoin reward (anonymous) > central authority > bitcoin reward (anonymous) paysafe coupon (anonymous) > neighbourhood watch (not anonymous) > paysafe coupon (anonymous) it's not a A > B , its A > C >B this was for your first post now you come back with: "So they wouldn't work for what I'm suggesting, which is that the receiver, who provided the information, is anonymous, and the payer is known." we'll , whats different than send me a paysafecard or coupon ? this is the way cryptovirus worked before bitcoin the person giving the reward was not , the guys receiving the payment , well they still are. Maybe my paysafe example was bad , but what about green moneypak the guys with the virus are using.? |
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