Solid Securities Thread

[WillBit]

Is it just me or does the whole bitcoin securities section seem to be filled with garbage recently?

Back in May I became very optimistic about investing in bitcoin securites, largely thanks to my investment in and the rise of ASICMINER.  Everything seemed to start going downhill with btct closing down, bitfunder shutting out US citizens, and ASICMINER running into competition.

I'm looking to invest in something promising besides ASICMINER

My crude summary of securities on Havelockinvestments.com:

CasinoBitco.in (symbol: CBTC): seems like there are already too many well-established bitcoin casinos doing a great job.  It's going to be hard to get a foothold in this market.  What differentiates this company from the others?

Crypto Financial (CFIG): Another currency exchange? Why use this exchange, where's the money to be made?  A bunch of tiny fees on a tiny exchange?

Cognitive Mining (COG): Small-time mining company up against massive competition? Doesn't sound too good.

Dealco.in (DEALCO): Why would anyone use this over localbitcoins.com

Havelock Mining Fund (HMF): Another small-time mining operation up against massive competition

Korb and Co. Investments Mining Fund (KCIM): Another small-time mining operation up against massive competition

Labcoin Passthru (LABCO): I'm hearing this is a scam?

Neo & Bee Payment Network (NEOBEE): Looks like the most promising security besides ASICMINER.  It also looks like a hugely complicated, expensive, elaborate, ostentatious project that could fail due to its complexity and massive up-front cost.

S.MG Passthru from MPEX (SMG): Games that use bitcoin payment systems?  Doesn't sound very interesting or popular.

VirtEx Canadian Bitcoin Exchange (VTX): Another currency exchange? Why use this exchange over existing ones, where's the money to be made?

XBOND - Exchangeable Fixed-Rate Bond (XBOND): Another boring bitcoin bond.  Why would I invest in bitcoin bonds?



I'm looking at asicminer, neobee, and activemining as the most promising securities right now.
Are we all better off just hanging onto our coins in this market?
Are there any solid securities offered right now?  Please join the discussion.

[hasher87]

Just remember this important mantara

Invest only what you can afford to lose

protip: I lost a few from the labcoin scam, but at least its a few that im willing to get part of, luckily the bitcoin rate wasnt as skyrocket as today

[WillBit]

Just remember this important mantara

Invest only what you can afford to lose

protip: I lost a few from the labcoin scam, but at least its a few that im willing to get part of, luckily the bitcoin rate wasnt as skyrocket as today

I was enthusiastic about labcoin and invested a few bitcoins as well.  This looked like a legit company and the employees appeared to have solid backgrounds.  Labcoin added to my negative outlook on the market a bit.  

Makes me wonder if Activemining is legit now.  They're throwing around big numbers for 2013 third quarter sales, but I haven't seen any evidence of them actually producing anything yet.  I'm guessing the third quarter sales are from preorders.

[drawingthesun]

This is a "hold Bitcoin" environment for sure. I am waiting out activemining at the moment but can't even sell the shares.

[DrGregMulhauser]

Is it just me or does the whole bitcoin securities section seem to be filled with garbage recently?

...Are there any solid securities offered right now?  Please join the discussion.

I've just said something very similar as an update on the BTC Growth forex thread in response to several message from folks asking me about plans for another fund involving equities:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=333851.msg3589530#msg3589530

I wouldn't go quite as far as "garbage", but the opportunities specifically in listed equities and listed debt are pretty sparse right now...

[Rannasha]

Not a security in the traditional sense, but investment in Just-Dice is still a reasonable option.

[Progressive]

Not a security in the traditional sense, but investment in Just-Dice is still a reasonable option.

It's reasonable option until it gets hacked or regulated.
The main problem I see with Just-Dice is that there is such a huge amount of BTC (more than 25 mil. USD) that it is great target for hackers and other criminals. Also for regulators (the operator is not unknown).

[twentyseventy]

BTC-TC and Bitfunder closing had a very detrimental effect over the BTC Securities environment overall. Lots of funds don't want to be listed on HL or Cryptostocks, or the fund managers just didn't want to take the (significant) time and effort to move.

It will be a long time until there are as many BTC investment / speculation opportunities as there were during that time. The days of speculation for fun and profit are over, for the short term at least.

Most people would be best served by holding the BTC or investing in fixed-rate bonds, like XBOND (I hold XBOND, but that may even be facing a forced buyback at face value by TAT).

[MPOE-PR]

OP, you might find this thread of interest.

Anyway, this bleak sort of outlook resurfaces when play exchanges fail and it becomes more obvious that hopeful kiddos are behind the greater number of shady operations masquerading as "securities". This has little bearing on the actual securities being traded, on the actual exchange.

At this point you either have to be a gambler or a fool to hold securities. The smart money has already left.

At any and every point you had to be a gambler or a fool to hold "securities" on play exchanges. The smart money has been on MPEx. It has never been wading through the flotsam. This is an opportunity to recognize what doesn't work, and why --make sure you understand this lesson in its entirety or you'll likely end up in the same spot again.

[arctos]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/117/021/enhanced-buzz-28895-1301694293-0.jpg

[Korbman]

Are there any solid securities offered right now?  Please join the discussion.

I'd be inclined to say "no" in this case, simply because it's quite a tremulous market right now. As global adoption increases, Bitcoin goes through yet another set of growing pains, and all industries utilizing Bitcoin begin to feel the same pain (to varying degrees).
The increased regulatory concerns around Bitcoin denominated security exchanges has certainly had a negative effect on the market. Tie that in with the vast increase in Bitcoin value and you'll soon find that it may make more sense to just buying and holding coins.

Speaking to mining funds, profit margins (when measured in Bitcoin) will always be decreasing. When thinking long term, this is something should be expected as the difficulty increases. The margins we (in the cumulative sense of KCIM, HIM/HMF, COG, and others) planned for in 2012 (or earlier) were completely overturned by the flood of ASIC developers that have come to market. My guess is that this will continue to happen for quite some time as well. At this point, anyone that promises you hefty mining returns has either never mined before or has no idea how the mining market works.

[twentyseventy]

Most people would be best served by holding the BTC or investing in fixed-rate bonds, like XBOND (I hold XBOND, but that may even be facing a forced buyback at face value by TAT).

Buyback is 105% face value. For anyone who bought it at its face value, it is pretty good.

You're correct, it is 105% of face value. Not a bad deal for anyone who bought at face, as that's 100 days of dividends. I'm in for higher than face, so I'm hoping the bonds aren't called back by TAT. I really just want somewhere safe to hold them and earn a bit of interest.

I considered CoinLenders for a minute, glad that I didn't take that route.

[MonkeyBear68]

All the funds listed are from the Havelock website. It seems that this post is simply trying to slam Havelock. For any mining funds you need to factor in the difficulty increase that will occur over the next few months. For other funds you need to study the feasibility of the proposed venture. Something that is badly needed in the Bitcoin community right now are Financial Service companies that will deal with Bitcoin; most banks will not. Thus NEOBEE and CFIG could see a huge rise if they are successful.

In terms of exchanges I have been using VirtEx for over 2 years now and the service I have received has been top notch. The VTX fund is really an investment in a real world company and thus you need to consider the dollar equivalent value of each share and NOT the BTC price. In terms of dollar value per share VTX has gone up 3 - 4 times since the April IPO. In terms of BTC the price per share has fallen because BTC itself has gone up so much.

For funds linked to real world companies you could have made more by simply holding the Bitcoins, but we need real world companies and Financial Service companies to help drive the support and acceptance of Bitcoin. Companies like NEOBEE, CFIG, and VTX will help drive the acceptance of Bitcoin and make your BTC holdings more valuable.

In terms of bonds XBOND is offering around 17% at current prices, callable at 1.05 and puttable at 0.95; this is golden as far as bonds go.

Diligent research will prove that there are some good Funds out there both on Havelock and other BTC investment firms. 

[twentyseventy]

In terms of dollar value per share VTX has gone up 3 - 4 times since the April IPO. In terms of BTC the price per share has fallen because BTC itself has gone up so much.

This is EXACTLY why you don't invest BTC in ventures that provide returns in fiat-denominated value - a rise in fiat/BTC kills you investment. You would have just been better off holding the BTC.

This isn't a pump-HL thread, there are just very few other options. Cryptostocks lists dozens of securities, but only MAYBE one is worth investment at the moment (up to you to figure out which one).

[haightst]

BTC-TC and Bitfunder closing had a very detrimental effect over the BTC Securities environment overall. Lots of funds don't want to be listed on HL or Cryptostocks, or the fund managers just didn't want to take the (significant) time and effort to move.

It will be a long time until there are as many BTC investment / speculation opportunities as there were during that time. The days of speculation for fun and profit are over, for the short term at least.

Most people would be best served by holding the BTC or investing in fixed-rate bonds, like XBOND (I hold XBOND, but that may even be facing a forced buyback at face value by TAT).

BTC-TC was a "game" if i remember correctly!    

[velacreations]

XBOND - Exchangeable Fixed-Rate Bond (XBOND): Another boring bitcoin bond.  Why would I invest in bitcoin bonds?

to get more btc, of course.  a steady 17-18% APR is nothing to sneeze at.  The price of bonds hold fairly stable so can be considered relatively low risk (compared to the others).

I don't own any of XBOND, but I see it as a reasonable investment.

[velacreations]

At any and every point you had to be a gambler or a fool to hold "securities" on play exchanges.

We are talking about exchanges people actually use.

[mgio]

Most people would be best served by holding the BTC or investing in fixed-rate bonds, like XBOND (I hold XBOND, but that may even be facing a forced buyback at face value by TAT).

Buyback is 105% face value. For anyone who bought it at its face value, it is pretty good.

I used to hold 250,000 shares of XBOND, but when bitfunder got shut down, I freaked out. Bonds are not safe investments anymore!

I also hold slightly less than 25,000 shares of ukyo.loan, that's 250 coins worth, and I'm not sure if I'm ever going to see any of it :-/.

[MPOE-PR]

We are talking about exchanges people actually use.

The fact that a lot of people could be eating formaldehyde does not make it nourishing. How many fake exchanges have to implode before you get the picture?

[velacreations]

How many fake exchanges have to implode before you get the picture?

butt-hurt because no one uses your imploded exchange?