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Author Topic: How I would EMBRACE Bitcoin if I was a goverment  (Read 2708 times)
Phinnaeus Gage
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August 01, 2011, 01:36:44 PM
 #1

This thread will open up discussion for the other side of the (bit)coin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=32621.0

How I would embrace Bitcoin if I was a government:

Represent yourself as the "I" in the above statement, and outline how Bitcoin would be an asset to your form of government. This should prove interesting.

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August 01, 2011, 01:48:24 PM
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I think bitcoin offers numerous benefits to governments (as well as banks and other companies).  As a result, I do forsee a day when some governments and established companies actually begin running mining farms for the express purpose of securing the network.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
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August 01, 2011, 03:13:23 PM
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This proved to be an interesting thread. I'm not sure which post I want to comment on first.

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August 01, 2011, 03:43:54 PM
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In the US, I would replace people's Social Security numbers with their self-chosen Bitcoin addresses, or request employees to register a Bitcoin address with me whenever they get a job, even if they keep separate addresses for separate jobs. I would then require businesses to pay their employees to those registered Bitcoin addresses, and use the public blockchain information to calculate payroll taxes. Allowing registration of other addresses, such as merchant's payment addresses, business's main revenue addresses, bank customer's mortgage payment address, etc. will allow me to automate my tax collection process, and will eliminate the requirement for individuals and businesses to file tax forms except for specific tax deductions that can't be automated in a similar way. This way, I (as a government) will still be able to collect the same tax revenues, but will save everyone billions in tax accounting and preparation work.

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August 01, 2011, 04:44:09 PM
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I think the way your thinking about the taxes with SIN being replaced by a bitcoin address but,

you could easily bypass taxes by simply creating a new wallet, with a new "SIN" number along side the one given to the gov.

Work a job making low income, linked to your legit ''SIN", while putting non-taxable income into a different wallet and paying ''incorrect'' taxes..

seems to me like it'd be pretty easy to bypass that sort of taxation system
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August 01, 2011, 05:09:22 PM
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You'd need for example a way to "tag" transactions (might even be possible with BTC) as being tax income...

All in all Bitcoin is to pseudo-/anonymous for such a system imho.

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spruce
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August 01, 2011, 05:28:28 PM
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How about just nuking the entire income tax system and replacing it with a consumption tax like VAT? there's an example here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax.

A government would then not have to worry about people evading income tax.
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August 01, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
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How about just nuking the entire income tax system and replacing it with a consumption tax like VAT? there's an example here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax.

A government would then not have to worry about people evading income tax.
Yeah, because Bitcoins have a country tag... NOT!

You'd need a seperate national blockchain for this.

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August 01, 2011, 06:20:40 PM
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A government thats not corrupt would embrace bitcoin naturally. A government full of corruption will only try to corrupt it.
Phinnaeus Gage
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August 02, 2011, 07:32:33 AM
 #10

A government thats not corrupt would embrace bitcoin naturally. A government full of corruption will only try to corrupt it.

I'm going to ask a question here, even though I could possibly Google the answer. Are there any governments that are not corrupt? Or quasi-noncorrupt?

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August 02, 2011, 10:22:30 AM
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How about just nuking the entire income tax system and replacing it with a consumption tax like VAT? there's an example here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax.

A government would then not have to worry about people evading income tax.

People evade VAT too though. Consumption taxes are also damaging to enterprise and are the most regressive form of taxation we have.

The tax that isn't evadable is land value tax, is not regressive, and has little fiscal drag.  Rich people don't like it though (precisely because it's difficult to evade/avoid) and our politicians are all rich.  Go figure.

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spruce
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August 02, 2011, 12:03:05 PM
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I'm going to ask a question here, even though I could possibly Google the answer. Are there any governments that are not corrupt? Or quasi-noncorrupt?

Here you go. A nice chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_by_country
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August 02, 2011, 05:53:53 PM
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I'm going to ask a question here, even though I could possibly Google the answer. Are there any governments that are not corrupt? Or quasi-noncorrupt?

Here you go. A nice chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_by_country

Thank you for that link, spruce.

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Phinnaeus Gage
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August 02, 2011, 06:13:29 PM
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In the US, I would replace people's Social Security numbers with their self-chosen Bitcoin addresses, or request employees to register a Bitcoin address with me whenever they get a job, even if they keep separate addresses for separate jobs. I would then require businesses to pay their employees to those registered Bitcoin addresses, and use the public blockchain information to calculate payroll taxes. Allowing registration of other addresses, such as merchant's payment addresses, business's main revenue addresses, bank customer's mortgage payment address, etc. will allow me to automate my tax collection process, and will eliminate the requirement for individuals and businesses to file tax forms except for specific tax deductions that can't be automated in a similar way. This way, I (as a government) will still be able to collect the same tax revenues, but will save everyone billions in tax accounting and preparation work.

uhh...mark of the beast much?


How about just nuking the entire income tax system and replacing it with a consumption tax like VAT? there's an example here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax.

A government would then not have to worry about people evading income tax.

I LOVE this.

...

This thread is probably the most important and unique thread for the last 30 days on this forum. Thank you.



"This thread is probably the most important and unique thread for the last 30 days on this forum. Thank you."

Thank you for the comment. BTW, please ignore my UABB comment I just made on another thread a couple minutes ago, for my humor ran amok for a sec.

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Phinnaeus Gage
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August 02, 2011, 06:36:03 PM
 #15

Thank you for the comment. BTW, please ignore my UABB comment I just made on another thread a couple minutes ago, for my humor ran amok for a sec.

I appreciate all humor, even when I'm the butt of the joke. ^_^

I wish more people could be as relaxed.  Cry

Was at your site. I like the layout/look. Well written. I guess it's still being populated for none of the business links work. May I suggest when you get around to that, start with Atlas. He's everyone's favorite here.

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spruce
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August 02, 2011, 06:38:08 PM
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How I would embrace Bitcoin if I was a government:

Represent yourself as the "I" in the above statement, and outline how Bitcoin would be an asset to your form of government. This should prove interesting.


I would be very interested in a reasoned report concerning how a government could usefully (or not) use bitcoin in the funding of its black projects as well as the legit stuff. Assuming there is still some legit stuff left, of course. This analysis should include the real powers-that-be as well as the visible puppets.
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August 02, 2011, 06:42:10 PM
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uhh...mark of the beast much?

You mean QR Codes???


How about just nuking the entire income tax system and replacing it with a consumption tax like VAT? there's an example here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax.

A government would then not have to worry about people evading income tax.


Um, a 23% sales tax creates a HUGE incentive to avoid sales taxes. This will likely lead to black market trade skyrocketing. May end up costing more in regulation and policing as a result, if the government has any hopes of enforcing it (and you KNOW they'd want to enforce it)

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August 02, 2011, 06:48:05 PM
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Um, a 23% sales tax creates a HUGE incentive to avoid sales taxes. This will likely lead to black market trade skyrocketing. May end up costing more in regulation and policing as a result, if the government has any hopes of enforcing it (and you KNOW they'd want to enforce it)

True. So do income tax rates in the same ball park. Do you know of any studies comparing the rates of tax evasion of the two?
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August 02, 2011, 07:19:08 PM
 #19

I think bitcoin offers numerous benefits to governments (as well as banks and other companies).  As a result, I do forsee a day when some governments and established companies actually begin running mining farms for the express purpose of securing the network.

You are correct unless you are using a central bank like the Federal Reserve that can print endless amounts of paper fiat currency.

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Phinnaeus Gage
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August 02, 2011, 07:38:10 PM
Last edit: August 02, 2011, 09:37:49 PM by Phinnaeus Gage
 #20


How I would embrace Bitcoin if I was a government:

Represent yourself as the "I" in the above statement, and outline how Bitcoin would be an asset to your form of government. This should prove interesting.


I would be very interested in a reasoned report concerning how a government could usefully (or not) use bitcoin in the funding of its black projects as well as the legit stuff. Assuming there is still some legit stuff left, of course. This analysis should include the real powers-that-be as well as the visible puppets.

Overheard in the Situation Room:

President Obama: How are we goin' to pay for this war we need in Iran, Generals?
General 1: With Bitcoin.
General 2: But you can't go on TV and walk down the aisle that has the red carpet and two gold chairs and tell the American people anything about Bitcoin.
President Obama: What are Bitcoins?
General 3: Just like that! Pretend you don't know anything about it. And it's Bitcoin, not Bitcoins, but it can be bitcoins.
President Obama: Whatever. At least I can repay my dept to Caterpillar with all that mining equipment they get to build, not to mention helping the economy with all those rehires.
General 1: Maybe we should start at the beginning.
President Obama: Make it quick. I have a lunch date with this guy named Atlas who has this business plan...
General 2: First off, about this Atlas guy...
General 4, 5, 8 and 11:  Angry Angry Angry Roll Eyes

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