[LEAKED] Private Bitcoin Foundation Discussions On Blacklisting, more (ZIP dump)

[ffssixtynine]

Yeah, yeah...
Once again, man: please, spare me your bullshit and get the fuck out of my face.

You are not bitcoin developer, nor you are representing any.
You are solely the enemies of bitcoin.

All you've done is come out with a bunch of tinfoil hat nonsense and personal insults. I don't even know what we disagree on or what I'm accused of other than being some whacky government plant or something.

Good luck with your tech developments, sincerely, but that conspiracy hat you're wearing is not pretty insane and everything you've said totally illogical.

[piotr_n]

Yeah, yeah...
Once again, man: please, spare me your bullshit and get the fuck out of my face.

You are not bitcoin developer, nor you are representing any.
You are solely the enemies of bitcoin.

All you've done is come out with a bunch of tinfoil hat nonsense and personal insults. I don't even know what we disagree on or what I'm accused of other than being some whacky government plant or something.

Good luck with your tech developments, sincerely, but that conspiracy hat you're wearing is not pretty insane and everything you've said totally illogical.

And you are trying to focus the topic on things that are completely irrelevant, to drag the readers away from the point.

Whether I am on any drugs or am I wearing any kind of hat - it isn't any of your business.

Take your friend Mike and go suck your latest genocidal psychopath president's dick.

[qwk]

Why would the Foundation be about mass adoption at all?

Because it says so on their web page. 

Wow, talk about taking a quote out of context.
Mass adoption of Bitcoin != Mass adoption of the Foundation.

[ffssixtynine]

I believe he does have a point about corporations.
The IT giants, among others, have paid a pretty penny to get their own clown elected for presidency

The IT giants? Nah, just say all large multinational corporations. I think it's hard to say 'clown' for presidency too because the whole system seems kinda rigged in the US. Whoever is president will get called a clown if you put it like that.

Besides, you can't twist the fact that corporations have lobbyists and they can do bad things into the absolute conspiracy diatribe he was spouting.

[ffssixtynine]

And you are trying to focus the topic on things that are completely irrelevant, to drag the readers away the point.

Whether I am on any drugs or am I wearing any kind of hat - it isn't any of your business.

No I'm not. The OP was pointing the finger at the Foundation for something it isn't doing. It's that simple. That's the entire point. It's not about what is or isn't a good idea and I've been abundantly clear where I stand on that.

Your hat... is it a tinfoil lined bowler? Because that would be cool.



Oh noes, I've turned into crumbs. I shall hide in shame.

[corebob]

I believe he does have a point about corporations.
The IT giants, among others, have paid a pretty penny to get their own clown elected for presidency

The IT giants? Nah, just say all large multinational corporations. I think it's hard to say 'clown' for presidency too because the whole system seems kinda rigged in the US. Whoever is president will get called a clown if you put it like that.

Besides, you can't twist the fact that corporations have lobbyists and they can do bad things into the absolute conspiracy diatribe he was spouting.

Now you are being picky.

[ffssixtynine]

Now you are being picky.

The clown bit? I dunno, out of the Rep/Dem options in the last few elections... Is there anyone who you would describe as other than a clown?

[SebastianJu]

Imagine Bin Laden is still around.

We find out his Bitcoin address. It contains 10,000 Bitcoins and we can see transactions entering it.

We then see outgoings, some of which are traced to weapons used to kill 1000s of Americans, think a major bomb or subway incident.

Ok... and since the weapon deliverer isnt stupid he took the bitcoins for the weapons and exchanged them fast for clean bitcoins. Now you go ahead and mark these bad weapon buy bitcoins as bad coins... who will suffer? Innocent people that hold these coins now. They couldnt know what these coins were used for when they got them. And that is true for nearly every scam imaginable.

In total... tainted coins are totally useless against scams. At least when the scammer isnt stupid. Tainted coins will only create even more victims while the real scammer is fine. He exchanged long ago again, used mixer and more and you will never have a chance to hurt him with tainted coins.

So i cant see how this concept can be of any use at all.

[ffssixtynine]

I agree with you Seb. It can't. There are so, so many flaws.

My point was about how the media and politicians will use it to beat us up if we don't have answers.

[piotr_n]

My point was about how the media and politicians will use it to beat us up if we don't have answers.

You poor american slave.
If your media and politicians will beat you up - how is it anyone's problem except your own?
Trust me: unlike what they told you at school, world is much bigger than just your nazi fatherland and both; Bitcoin and the world will be just fine, maybe even better, after your once great USA is already a dead stinky body, killed by its own exceptionalism.

You elect your own government, you pretend to spread "freedom & democracy" all over the world, but ironically you are the only ones who come crying that your own media and politicians are beating you up, thus forcing you to conspire against the bitcoin as we've known it... And in the meantime I am the one who wears a tinfoil hat...

You know, not that I wear it, but considering the fact that you are quite aware of how fucked up the country you live in actually is, does't it make you feel like maybe tinfoil hats actually work?

[jedunnigan]

In the past most threats against the Foundation have been idle (imo), but even now I get a very bad feeling in my stomach about this. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing the BF forums get DDoS'd, defaced, among other things. Given the poor standing of other notable members  (see: Peter Vessenes), the future of the Foundation is very fragile. Yes they pay Gavin, but that's only because we accept their changes and update our software. If we stop doing that and fork QT, the need for them diminishes quickly. It would be in their benefit to remember that.
the Foundation who has claimed to champion the fungibility of the protocol.

You know you can simply create a github account and start contributing? (right here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin, behold the Fork button) Like many others in this community you make it sound like forking the code is some grandiose act of rebellion. But it's simply how open source works.

No need to BF member, or go through a secret core dev initiation ritual.

Seriously, we can use more active contributors for Bitcoind/-qt. Get involved! Stop complaining, start coding (or as Erik Hughes wrote in his manifesto in 1993: Cypherpunks write code). Forking the code is not a threat to anyone. Don't confuse it with forking the blockchain.

Complaining? lol, cmon dude get over yourself. I was just speaking my truth in a discussion based forum, no need to get all wrapped up in the emotions of it.

And yes I am aware we are just one good fork away from a break off from the BF. Their version of QT is the one featured on bitcoin.org, which is what I was getting at. Thanks for the vote of confidence though. Oh and if you were going to bother responding to this post, don't.

[ffssixtynine]

You poor american slave.

I can tell you don't read because if you did you would know that I'm not American, not in America, and not a member of the Foundation! Also, Jewish and with family who suffered at the Nazi's hands, so please stop being insulting and using that label when you have no idea what it even means.

[piotr_n]

You poor american slave.

I can tell you don't read because if you did you would know that I'm not American, not in America, and not a member of the Foundation!

Then we can only wonder why are you shitting your pants thinking about "the media and politicians beating you up", just because you did not adjust the bitcoin protocol to please the US gov... Where do you live, if I may ask - in Guantanamo?

Obviously one does not need to be an American to be a poor american slave - you are the very proof.

[ffssixtynine]

You poor american slave.

I can tell you don't read because if you did you would know that I'm not American, not in America, and not a member of the Foundation!

Then we can only wonder why are you shitting your pants thinking about "the media and politicians beating you up", just because you did not adjust the bitcoin protocol to please US gov.
Where do you live - in Guantanamo?

Obviously one does not need to be an American to be a poor american slave - you are the proof.

Erm, so where have I suggested adjusting the Bitcoin protocol and where have I said I do anything other than oppose anything like that? It's nice of you to take a view without facts, which probably explains the rest of your views posted as well.

[piotr_n]

Erm, so where have I suggested adjusting the Bitcoin protocol and where have I said I do anything other than oppose anything like that? It's nice of you to take a view without facts, which probably explains the rest of your views posted as well.

Some things don't need to be spoken literally to be understood - all a person needs is an IQ higher than yours and he can easily read between the lines.

So you won't tell us where you live, will you? I'm betting it isn't China, nor Russia - because none of their citizens are asking "how high?" when the nazi US government says "jump!"
UK? You seem to be matching Mike's profile pretty well and the guy is the queen's servant, though as the leaks have shown, obviously very proud of sucking Obama's black cock...

[ffssixtynine]

Erm, so where have I suggested adjusting the Bitcoin protocol and where have I said I do anything other than oppose anything like that? It's nice of you to take a view without facts, which probably explains the rest of your views posted as well.

Some things don't need to be spoken literally to be understood - all a person needs is an IQ higher than yours and he can easily read between the lines.

So you won't tell us where you live, will you? I'm betting it isn't China, nor Russia - because none of their citizens are asking "how high?" when the nazi US government says "jump!"
UK? You seem to be matching Mike's profile pretty well and the guy is the queen's servant, though as the leaks have shown, obviously very proud of sucking Obama's black cock...

You're lovely, you know that. I've never hidden anything, you're just to lazy to read.

And with that, ignored.

[SebastianJu]

I agree with you Seb. It can't. There are so, so many flaws.

My point was about how the media and politicians will use it to beat us up if we don't have answers.

Ah, didnt notice that...

My point was about how the media and politicians will use it to beat us up if we don't have answers.

You poor american slave.
If your media and politicians will beat you up - how is it anyone's problem except your own?
Trust me: unlike what they told you at school, world is much bigger than just your nazi fatherland and both; Bitcoin and the world will be just fine, maybe even better, after your once great USA is already a dead stinky body, killed by its own exceptionalism.

You elect your own government, you pretend to spread "freedom & democracy" all over the world, but ironically you are the only ones who come crying that your own media and politicians are beating you up, thus forcing you to conspire against the bitcoin as we've known it... And in the meantime I am the one who wears a tinfoil hat...

You know, not that I wear it, but considering the fact that you are quite aware of how fucked up the country you live in actually is, does't it make you feel like maybe tinfoil hats actually work?

Erm... i wonder where you life since the control of people is a disease spreading worldwide. And yes they use all kind of excuses to forward their plans. Be it terrorism or money laundering. They will spread fear to get the plans through they need to earn money.

[piotr_n]

You're lovely, you know that. I've never hidden anything, you're just to lazy to read.

Like I cared which country has issued your passport; for me you are a poor american slave anyway.
A man is what he does - even Forrest Gump knew it

And no - it doesn't take a genius to figure out that I am too lazy to read through all your bullshit.

And with that, ignored.

Finally.
It's amazing how much time a person needs to waste sometimes to effectively say "fuck off"

[piotr_n]

Erm... i wonder where you life since the control of people is a disease spreading worldwide. And yes they use all kind of excuses to forward their plans. Be it terrorism or money laundering. They will spread fear to get the plans through they need to earn money.

Yes.
So you are going to surrender?
Well - do what you please...

I am going to stand up, because I am not a slave, I have my rights as a human being and I am going to use them to promote my human interests.
And Bitcoin is today my most powerful weapon, which I will not give up even after my dead body.

These days I live in Holland, but I was born and raised in Poland, though today I consider myself a citizen of the world.
Unfortunately as it turns out, the World does not issue passports, and without a passport a human being is nobody.
So I am doomed to have a nationality, even though I think nationalism is stupid and inhumane

[TraderTimm]

@ffssixtynine

I see you like government involvement, or at the very least - you think that there's no use in resisting it. With your little crafted example of Bin retard, for instance. Fear as a tactic? Its working for the DHS rather well, isn't it? So naturally you adopt this stance and say "Well, look - we can catch bad people if we do X, Y and Z" without stopping for one second and looking at the principles being violated.

Personal freedom and financial freedom are worthwhile, no matter how many horrible counter-examples you can give. For every system there are positives and negatives, and I'm not going to give up this fight just because someone is scared the "bad guys" will abuse it.

As for the "Bitcoin Foundation", all they've done is raise Bitcoin's visibility towards the very forces that can cause us harm (Depending on where you live, I guess.). Thanks a load, guys, you're really pals. Entertaining or "just discussing" these issues with government aren't helping anyone, at all.

All they'll end up achieving is crippling U.S. involvement with Bitcoin, and then other countries will take the torch and leave them in the dust.

This is simply idiocy.

Can I just clarify that no no no I'm not in favour of any of it. I have said that several times

However, some form of regulation is going to happen. It doesn't matter what you say, what I say, what the foundation say, it is going to happen. Just like with KYC with exchanges. Refusing to discuss it internally, let alone externally, is folly in the extreme. You'll then have people like yifu having the regulator's ear instead. That would be an utter nightmare - there would be no balance.

They haven't raised Bitcoin's visibility in this respect - this is being discussing heavily at regulators world wide and multiple companies are working on how they can make money by getting in bed with the gov at our expense (some may even believe it's the right thing to do). I've known this was under discussion in the UK and US since July. It only takes a few contacts to know what's going on, plus enough has been said in public, and many other people here know this too. The only people with their knickers in a twist over a simple discussion are people here.

Let me make clear the difference between something being discussed to as to know how to deal with questioning, which is absolutely essential, and coming out and saying at we should do x.  It's important to recognise the difference. In order to counter arguments for black green grey etc listing, you need to have discussed it, including technical approaches. Not doing so means being caught with your pants down.

Regulators are not necessarily your enemy, but governments and law enforcement certainly can be. Regulators are the guys in the middle. It's all rather more complex than you seem to realise.

Btw This issue goes way beyond the US.

Most certainly the issue is beyond any given national border - I agree. Thank you for asserting that you don't back the "governance by fear" technique, it gives me hope in humanity in general.

Here's the real problem that I think the non-elected-by-majority-of-bitcoin-users Bitcoin Foundation is causing:

They are operating under the assumption that the U.S. Government will play fair.

The government in this case has already proven that they will not play fair, in fact, they'll utilize whatever they can grasp to get their will imposed upon any nation-state or system they choose.

By going up to the government, and essentially baring Bitcoin's throat saying "You could kill us by cutting our jugular, but we know you won't because you're a good bunch" is such an extreme example of niave thinking, that it has stunned us all.

That explains the reaction, and it most certainly explains why all these "mere discussions" about the "inevitability" of regulation are happening in the least-transparent way possible.

History is a harsh judge, and upon the Bitcoin Foundation, it will be the harshest of all.