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Author Topic: @Admins: Merit not working as configured, trolls just don't care (no surprise)  (Read 1010 times)
Carlton Banks
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April 18, 2018, 03:13:03 PM
Merited by Karartma1 (1), bitperson (1)
 #1

This might be somewhat unpopular, but is popularity the goal? A good resource should be the goal IMO, I exclusively read this forum for about 1 year before I felt knowledgeable enough to post at all.


Getting the signal:noise ratio up can probably only be achieved using real resources. I'd be very happy if a BTC cost was introduced for posting:

  • Nuke the old rank status for all members, re-adjust according to merit only
  • Charge BTC for every post, low rank = highest fee
  • Set the charges incredibly low to begin with, slowly increase to tweak the quality level


Lightning payments would be necessary, of course. Maybe I'm taking too hard a line, but if I have to pay even 500 satoshis per post, that would be a small price to pay to improve quality again.

Look at the inverse situation: 1000's of accounts are posting meaningless, obvious, copy-pasta or troll content, only in order to get paid per post by sig campaigns or trolls-in-chief.

Price discovery can solve this problem, it's a geniune "tragedy of the commons" issue after all.

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great0ne
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April 18, 2018, 03:17:34 PM
 #2

Im dont think this work and will end up in lot of people not using btctalk any more.
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April 18, 2018, 03:20:15 PM
Merited by Carlton Banks (2)
 #3

Im dont think this work and will end up in lot of people not using btctalk any more.
s/people/“freeloading spammers”/

How to ask questions the smart way
When you’re happy with the answers in a thread you have started, please click ‘lock topic’ to prevent spam.
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Carlton Banks
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April 18, 2018, 03:38:55 PM
Merited by bill gator (1)
 #4

Im dont think this work and will end up in lot of people not using btctalk any more.

Exactly, there would be fewer people posting: and the posts would be good.

Would you pay to post the above reply? Apparently not. Kind of ironic that your own post is contradicting your point (and validating mine)

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April 18, 2018, 03:52:57 PM
Merited by Vod (3)
 #5


Exactly, there would be fewer people posting: and the posts would be good.

Would you pay to post the above reply? Apparently not. Kind of ironic that your own post is contradicting your point (and validating mine)

This is a stupid idea. Bitcoin was supposed to give power the people. Although that's just an idealistic rhetoric it holds true to a lot extent. And if Bitcointalk charged me for posting stuff, I wouldn't post at all. And I am sure many well poised valuable members of this community would feel the same.

The moment you start charging people to have a discussion then you are instantly taking the power away from people that have shallow pockets, and then by that egregious logic, anyone without money would essentially be deemed unworthy of contributing to this forum.

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April 18, 2018, 04:03:46 PM
 #6

The moment you start charging people to have a discussion then you are instantly taking the power away from people that have shallow pockets, and then by that egregious logic, anyone without money would essentially be deemed unworthy of contributing to this forum.

If you've got something really important to say (i.e. if everyone else is informed, then you benefit), then you'll be willing to pay. You obviously don't have much confidence in how useful your posts are, either to other people or for yourself.

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April 18, 2018, 04:13:52 PM
Merited by suchmoon (2), OgNasty (1), LoyceV (1)
 #7

It's not the posters who should have to pay - fine the sig campaign managers for allowing spam posting.

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April 18, 2018, 04:18:41 PM
Merited by suchmoon (2), Foxpup (1)
 #8

Nobody is going to pay for every post they make and theymos would never do this. The best suggestion I have come up with is that nobody has a signature at all unless they pay a one off fee (like Copper Membership but higher), but theymos doesn't even seem to want to do that so he's not going to charge people to post. I think if we charged something like $500 for a signature it would significantly reduce the spam and people signing up here with x amount of accounts and pretty much kill account farming instantly. It probably won't effect trolls though because they just troll for the fun of it regardless of signatures.

It's not the posters who should have to pay - fine the sig campaign managers for allowing spam posting.

Also this. Badly run campaigns who are causing all the spam should be punished with bans and signature blacklists because if they're not nothing will change.

Carlton Banks
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April 18, 2018, 04:28:42 PM
 #9

Nobody is going to pay for every post they make

I would. You're not reading these posts, are you?


I also said "this won't be popular", and I'm being proven right. Very few people will stand by the quality of their own posts or how useful the information is in their posts. What a massive surprise, because easily > 50% of posts on Bitcointalk.org are now execrable garbage

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April 18, 2018, 04:30:15 PM
 #10

Nobody is going to pay for every post they make and theymos would never do this. The best suggestion I have come up with is that nobody has a signature at all unless they pay a one off fee (like Copper Membership but higher)...

I was going to suggest that various features of the forum be unlocked through payment - a freemium model in which you can join/read for free, and maybe post to a newbie section (which I understand the forum used to have); pay a small fee to unlock posting anywhere; pay another small fee to unlock the avatar; pay a higher fee to unlock a Jr. Member sig, more to unlock a sig with links, even more to have more than 3 lines/colors/whatever.

If I had to pay each time I posted I wouldn't pay at all, and it isn't because I don't think my posts are so good they would bring tears to @nullius' eyes, but because I place a non-zero value on my time so if I choose to spend some of it posting here I damn well am not going to pay to do so. Frankly, that sounds rather like Brazil (the movie).

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April 18, 2018, 04:39:45 PM
 #11

I was going to suggest that various features of the forum be unlocked through payment - a freemium model in which you can join/read for free, and maybe post to a newbie section (which I understand the forum used to have); pay a small fee to unlock posting anywhere; pay another small fee to unlock the avatar; pay a higher fee to unlock a Jr. Member sig, more to unlock a sig with links, even more to have more than 3 lines/colors/whatever.

I think something like that could work also. I don't think it would deter the outright trolls though.


If I had to pay each time I posted I wouldn't pay at all, and it isn't because I don't think my posts are so good they would bring tears to @nullius' eyes, but because I place a non-zero value on my time so if I choose to spend some of it posting here I damn well am not going to pay to do so. Frankly, that sounds rather like Brazil (the movie).

Well, it depends how high the fee per post was set. Would you pay 0.0001 satoshis for 1 post as a Legendary member? See how this works? The price mechanism is powerful, if the price was just high enough to erase all spammers aside from the richest trolls, it would be a price worth paying IMO. And it might even lead to identifying the trolls (and wasting alot of their money).

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MagicSmoker
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April 18, 2018, 04:49:20 PM
 #12

I was going to suggest that various features of the forum be unlocked through payment - a freemium model in which you can join/read for free...

I think something like that could work also. I don't think it would deter the outright trolls though.

Hmm, yes. I didn't even think of the effect pay-to-post would have on the trolls; rather chilling, I imagine. If pay-to-post was implemented this would likely be one of the first major forums to do so and would itself make an interesting social experiment.

If I had to pay each time I posted I wouldn't pay at all, and it isn't because I don't think my posts are so good they would bring tears to @nullius' eyes, but because I place a non-zero value on my time so if I choose to spend some of it posting here I damn well am not going to pay to do so. Frankly, that sounds rather like Brazil (the movie).

Well, it depends how high the fee per post was set. Would you pay 0.0001 satoshis for 1 post as a Legendary member? See how this works? The price mechanism is powerful, if the price was just high enough to erase all spammers aside from the richest trolls, it would be a price worth paying IMO. And it might even lead to identifying the trolls (and wasting alot of their money).

Right, well, that is such a small price it qualifies as dust on the mote of dust, so, no, I wouldn't object to that aside from the principle of not wanting to pay to voluntarily contribute my time, that is. A possible compromise would be to make posting free once Legendary rank was reached, however. I don't seem to have nearly as much of a problem with that, though I'm not entirely sure why.

Carlton Banks
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April 18, 2018, 05:36:06 PM
 #13

If pay-to-post was implemented this would likely be one of the first major forums to do so and would itself make an interesting social experiment.

Yep. And this is probably one of the most trolled forums on the internet, I should imagine.


A possible compromise would be to make posting free once Legendary rank was reached, however. I don't seem to have nearly as much of a problem with that, though I'm not entirely sure why.

Right, but nuking current rankings down to acquired merit rank levels would be very much needed if any free to post rank existed, too many trolls have Legendary accounts already from the old days of the activity-based ranking scheme.


Maybe another way to reward quality members would be universal tipping, everyone is given a tipping address (Lightning again) whether they like it or not (or every account is forced to supply a Lightning address). I don't publish a tipping address, but if I was forced to, I'd take any tips if I was given any.

Tips could easily help to offset the cost of posting, even if Legendary members were paying 0.0001 satoshis per post.

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April 18, 2018, 05:36:47 PM
 #14

You make sense on that to make this forum slowly to become more better by your objection. However, we were not born in the same country. We were not born in the same family. Incase the destiny make it so still we have our differences even we born in same place. My point in this, not all of us have the same opportunity to avail satoshi. Not all of us can provide to pay even a small price of posting because there are necessary things that must be prioritize.

When this forum control by so called payment of posting then more corrupt will follow. Why not make it donation for particular foundations that proven legit and not scam? I think it is meaningful and enjoyable and not burden.

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April 18, 2018, 05:40:36 PM
 #15

Charge BTC for every post, low rank = highest fee

Is this a joke?

That's probably the best way to make people leave this place.
People come here not because of the quality of the posts but because they can make money...and you want them to pay? Huhhh...try and in a month, this forum will be dead I can assure you of that.

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Carlton Banks
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April 18, 2018, 05:51:12 PM
 #16

That's probably the best way to make people leave this place.
People come here not because of the quality of the posts but because they can make money...and you want them to pay? Huhhh...try and in a month, this forum will be dead I can assure you of that.

No-one would ever have been paid anything if there wasn't valuable advertising space for sig-spammers to use. What gives the advertising space value? Quality.

Visitors to this (or any) site come here because there's good information here. They wouldn't come otherwise, who wants to swim in spam advertising for fun?

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nebuch
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April 18, 2018, 05:55:36 PM
 #17

Charge BTC for every post, low rank = highest fee

Is this a joke?

That's probably the best way to make people leave this place.
People come here not because of the quality of the posts but because they can make money...and you want them to pay? Huhhh...try and in a month, this forum will be dead I can assure you of that.

Your reply was the BIG JOKE! Remember this if you are here to collect and earn money then I see you in the future as shitposter. Mark my words change your perspective while you have a chance before you become spammer. In addition as a friendly advice please handle your emotion. Don't deal the situation base on your emotion but base on what the needs in the situation. You have a potential according to your writings.

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April 18, 2018, 05:55:59 PM
 #18


People come here not because of the quality of the posts but because they can make money...and you want them to pay? Huhhh...try and in a month, this forum will be dead I can assure you of that.

Well there is the root of the problem.

Delete all those twitter and facebook promo posts, and delete low value posts. Who cares if that means the leeches leave the forum.

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Click here to buy it now for Bitcoin or US dollars
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April 18, 2018, 06:10:36 PM
 #19

Personally, I prefer to add more decentralization to solve spam problem using systems like the tree system.
image URL: https://i.imgur.com/YOiGm0R.png


reporters list: they can delete any spam post.
Moderators: When 10 posts are deleted by reporters list, an auto alert sent to moderators (this user is a spammer). Moderators can ban users or keep them posting.
Global Moderators: When moderators ban an account, an alert with alt accounts (through IP) sent to global moderators to ban other accounts associated with this user.


Karisma Black
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April 18, 2018, 06:27:16 PM
 #20


People come here not because of the quality of the posts but because they can make money...and you want them to pay? Huhhh...try and in a month, this forum will be dead I can assure you of that.

Well there is the root of the problem.

Delete all those twitter and facebook promo posts, and delete low value posts. Who cares if that means the leeches leave the forum.

Ok, do that... delete signatures as well and let's see how many people stay and what quality you'll get out of it.
Zero !The place will be a desert.

Why stay here when you can find info on cryptos on social networks and so many other places ?
Even reddit is much better quality wise because it's more organised and easier to read.

Bitcointalk works because of the bounty campaigns and that will never change whatever system (merit or else) you put in place.

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