how to revolt against the bitcoin foundations 'taint' idea's

[franky1]

What the hells happened to this forum?!?. People making massive wild assumptions which reach the point of somehow becomming fact, then turning into a fever and all kinds of negative "BURN THE WITCHES" threads popping up.

I had hoped there would be more adults here, ones willing to , you know, actually realise its mearly at the DISCUSSION STAGE, that being an adult is looking at a situation from ALL ANGLES, to discuss, debate, and THEN start forming strategys and conclusions.

This is very very early days still, and yet people here are acting like TEH BIG CONSPIRACY TAKEOVER HAS BEGUN!!

Gimme a break....

i agree,
i did write "plan" a few times and rediculous "idea" and a few If's.

i did not say mike hearn is/has done anything.

i do hate it when these if's and maybes are then meandered and chinese whispered into gospel facts

[spartacusrex]

Quote from: spartacusrex on Today at 02:51:40 PM
BUT - BTC development is still FAR TOO CENTRALISED.. Because protocol changes are STILL being made, so no-one but Gavin and the BTC Foundation can actually develop the bitcoin-qt client. No Disrespect intended, Gavin's cool Grin

Where the hell did you get that idea?

Bitcoin-qt is developed as an open source project on github (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin), You do NOT need to be a Bitcoin Foundation member to contribute (just have an account on github).

That's not what I mean..

Yes, it's open-source. yes i can contribute..

But the truth is : Everyone uses the client Gav and the BTC team build.. as in EVERYONE..

If the Protocol was set in stone, I can guarantee you there would be many MANY more implementations to choose from. And then trying to do a HARD FORK would be basically impossible.. without MASSIVE overall consent. (more than 51% - as at 51% a fork would be very MESSY)

At the moment, if they put something into the latest version of bitcoind.exe, MOST would just take it, and use it.

That's what I mean by the centralised nature of bitcoin's development.

[mgio]

with mike hearns plans to add code that will red-list coins.

and other bitcoin foundation plans to change the blockchain to something more U.S government friendly. the solution is simple.

DO NOT upgrade your client to a newer version that contains these ridiculous idea's.

if the majority of us stick with the same version, the bitcoin sticks with us. If a fork occurs, the new versions with those ridiculous idea's will use the fork. simply let them. we/they can call their fork govcoin.. and let the 1% of foundation loving, government loving users play around with their silly fork just like any other alt coin. while we continue using bitcoin as it remains in its current state.

give it a few minutes/hours and the exchanges will see the majority wants bitcoin and not govcoin, thus leaving govcoin to die

Here is an even better idea.

The client is open source, correct?

So every time a new version is released with new features (many of which we probably want), we can just strip out the red-list features we don't want and re-release that "parallel" client.

[TraderTimm]

What the hells happened to this forum?!?. People making massive wild assumptions which reach the point of somehow becomming fact, then turning into a fever and all kinds of negative "BURN THE WITCHES" threads popping up.

I had hoped there would be more adults here, ones willing to , you know, actually realise its mearly at the DISCUSSION STAGE, that being an adult is looking at a situation from ALL ANGLES, to discuss, debate, and THEN start forming strategys and conclusions.

This is very very early days still, and yet people here are acting like TEH BIG CONSPIRACY TAKEOVER HAS BEGUN!!

Gimme a break....

In the U.S.A. taxes were introduced as a "temporary" measure.

In 1971, Nixon decided to "temporarily" remove the Gold fix for the US Dollar.

In 2013, the Bitcoin Foundation is "just discussing" major issues with the US Government.

See a pattern here at all?

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

with mike hearns plans to add code that will red-list coins.

and other bitcoin foundation plans to change the blockchain to something more U.S government friendly. the solution is simple.

DO NOT upgrade your client to a newer version that contains these ridiculous idea's.

if the majority of us stick with the same version, the bitcoin sticks with us. If a fork occurs, the new versions with those ridiculous idea's will use the fork. simply let them. we/they can call their fork govcoin.. and let the 1% of foundation loving, government loving users play around with their silly fork just like any other alt coin. while we continue using bitcoin as it remains in its current state.

give it a few minutes/hours and the exchanges will see the majority wants bitcoin and not govcoin, thus leaving govcoin to die

+ 1000

Also, if shit-listing ever happens, I am here to fork it.

[Netnox]

Lets see what Litecoin devs have to say about this. It's been asked on litecoin forums

[Kouye]

with mike hearns plans to add code that will red-list coins.

As much as I hate this idea, as much as I voted for Mike not being my voice ever again through the BF, you're just hallucinating, here.
This was just a dicussion. Not a sane one, for sure, but just a discussion. It did not include any plan to make it real in a distant future.

Disagree, but let people voice their opinion, please.

[corebob]

There is no technical reason why an altcoin shouldnt increase in value at some point.

Some altcoins is already quite popular, at the same time as bitcoin is getting more popular as well.

[franky1]

with mike hearns plans to add code that will red-list coins.

As much as I hate this idea, as much as I voted for Mike not being my voice ever again through the BF, you're just hallucinating, here.
This was just a dicussion. Not a sane one, for sure, but just a discussion. It did not include any plan to make it real in a distant future.

Disagree, but let people voice their opinion, please.

plans to add code,

=

NOT added code already
Not created code and decided the date at which to enter it
NOT PLANNED(past tense, conversation and idea finalised), but plans(/present/future tense)....

a plan is something that is thought out but not implemented.
like the plans you make to go to meetings next week or the clothes you plan on wearing tomorrow.. you have not worn them yet, you may not even looked at the clothes to decide if the would even look good on you. you have only made plans...

its an idea... its an IF, its a maybe.

[ab8989]

I think the best way and the best tool to fight blacklists is BLACKLISTS and TAINT, lots of blacklists and a lots of taint. If you only have a couple of blacklists and a small amount of tainted coins we are vulnerable but if we can create lots of blacklists and have most of the coins tainted we are safe and all the coin-holders should swap their currently clean coins to tainted coins for their own benefit. Why?

Because then all this blacklist-taint business is old news and boring and nobody can achieve nothing by creating one more blacklist and declaring some coins as tainted. We can just say that all of the coins are tainted just like all of the dollar-bills are tainted and nothing can be done about it and that explanation is going to be accepted because it is old news and boring for dollar-bills. In near future nobody is going to care just like nobody cares about silk road as a threat to bitcoin as whole although that is the number one most published use for bitcoins. The only thing to be afraid for is the fear itself.

[cdog]

What the hells happened to this forum?!?. People making massive wild assumptions which reach the point of somehow becomming fact, then turning into a fever and all kinds of negative "BURN THE WITCHES" threads popping up.

I had hoped there would be more adults here, ones willing to , you know, actually realise its mearly at the DISCUSSION STAGE, that being an adult is looking at a situation from ALL ANGLES, to discuss, debate, and THEN start forming strategys and conclusions.

This is very very early days still, and yet people here are acting like TEH BIG CONSPIRACY TAKEOVER HAS BEGUN!!

Gimme a break....

In the U.S.A. taxes were introduced as a "temporary" measure.

In 1971, Nixon decided to "temporarily" remove the Gold fix for the US Dollar.

In 2013, the Bitcoin Foundation is "just discussing" major issues with the US Government.

See a pattern here at all?

Have to say I dont want to sound hysterical but Im in agreement here.

The government is all talking about "fraud prevention" and "consumer protection"

Thats a blatant lie and actually they do not give a rats ass about protecting consumers, otherwise all those late night infomercials telling you how to become a millionare, and websites promising to make you "$30K per month from your computer" simply would not exist. Butterfly Labs would not exist. For Christ sake, Citibank and half the other banks who sold us on bogus credit default swaps wouldnt exist, as they are all scammers, cons, and crooks. Cliff notes is this, is doesnt matter who you scam if you can pay your taxes and pay whatever "fines" they levy on you in court, which in the world of banking and pro scamming is just looked at as a cost of doing business.

They want to control it. First it starts with "monitoring" and "regulation," then it moves to "auditing" and "taxation" and "identity verification" and blacklisting coins, then eventually they use "eminent domain" on the bitcoin protocol and begin issuing coins themselves to "better protect the American public."

How people cant see that amazes me.

[callem]

Who's to stop someone with 'redlisted' coins from sending tainted mBTC unsolicited to 1000's of 'clean' addresses just for the sake of undermining 'taint' analysis?

The bitcoin protocol can't prevent anyone from creating payments to any other address. The devs all know this so it's baffling how this idea has come as far as it has without being delegitimized completely.

[auto2nr1]

This is what we need.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qtevg/zerocoin_reduces_proof_size_by_98_plans_to/

[exapted]

1) Create distributed anonymous extensible exchange system. (Open Transactions?)
2) As soon as Zerocoin is released as an alt-chain, everyone use it instead of Bitcoin.

[corebob]

Quote from: spartacusrex on Today at 02:51:40 PM
BUT - BTC development is still FAR TOO CENTRALISED.. Because protocol changes are STILL being made, so no-one but Gavin and the BTC Foundation can actually develop the bitcoin-qt client. No Disrespect intended, Gavin's cool Grin

Where the hell did you get that idea?

Bitcoin-qt is developed as an open source project on github (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin), You do NOT need to be a Bitcoin Foundation member to contribute (just have an account on github).

That's not what I mean..

Yes, it's open-source. yes i can contribute..

But the truth is : Everyone uses the client Gav and the BTC team build.. as in EVERYONE..

If the Protocol was set in stone, I can guarantee you there would be many MANY more implementations to choose from. And then trying to do a HARD FORK would be basically impossible.. without MASSIVE overall consent. (more than 51% - as at 51% a fork would be very MESSY)

At the moment, if they put something into the latest version of bitcoind.exe, MOST would just take it, and use it.

That's what I mean by the centralised nature of bitcoin's development.

Other protocol implementations are coming into existence, like btcd and gocoin.



The most important thing for a government is probably to have a system where money circulate back to them eventually. Whether it be through taxes, duties, printing or whatever.
Tainting could be used to achieve this of course. Just taint everything that has not been whitewashed and reissued by the gov.
But I doubt China is willing to send all their coins to Bernanke to have it whitewashed 

[franky1]

The most important thing for a government is probably to have a system where money circulate back to them eventually. Whether it be through taxes, duties, printing or whatever.
Tainting could be used to achieve this of course. Just taint everything that has not been whitewashed and reissued by the gov.
But I doubt China is willing to send all their coins to Bernanke to have it whitewashed 

the government love bitcoin because

instead of a foreign worker putting US Dollar bank notes into an envelope to send to his family abroad, he puts the U.S dollar into a US dollar bank account to then transfer the funds to a US bank account of OKPAY/ (now redundant) Dwolla. so that the US Dollar does infact stat within the borders of america.

the bitcoin travels the world and gets exchanged for whatever, but america doesnt/ shouldnt care about that.

because:
now they can get a little extra income tax/ sales tax from OKPAY/Dwolla.

the government regulations should only remain at the american FIAT touching businesses (that withdraw to US Banks).

[im3w1l]

People can turn their noses up to altcoins all they want, but I know for a 100% fact that there are developers currently working on altcoins that are equally as talented, and some even more so, as Satoshi. There are a lot of bitcoin adopters with their heads in the sands as it relates to altcoins.

Idk about that, but they remain and Satoshi has disappeared.