2013-11-15 CNS - Chinese 'damas' mad for bitcoin

[oakpacific]

http://www.ecns.cn/cns-wire/2013/11-15/88703.shtml

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[LiteCoinGuy]

With the Chinese market increasingly optimistic about the digital currency's potential growth, an online bitcoin platform has released that 40 percent of its VIP traders are Chinese women, the Beijing Youth Daily reported.


woooOt  ?

[bitcool]

I highly doubt the 40% figure, you can't take it seriously.

They probably decided on the title first, then made the number.

[iCEBREAKER]

The only thing Chinese people like more than saving is gambling!  And 'saving' includes thriftiness, tax evasion and money laundering.

Bitcoin perfectly fulfills both needs!   

[BTCLuke]

Actually, there is one thing the Chinese admit to loving more than both saving and gambling: Gold.

Thankfully many of them are starting to see that bitcoin is superior to gold in every single aspect, and their government can't steal it from them.

I foresee both China and India holding more than 30% of the planet's bitcoin each before 2016. The way USSA regulations are starting to look; we'll probably only hold about 1% by then.

[oakpacific]

I highly doubt the 40% figure, you can't take it seriously.

They probably decided on the title first, then made the number.

The CEO of the site only talks about the gender ratio, it'e the media who applies the title to those female investors, you are not going to fuck up your VIP customers by calling them "dama"(it has a negative connotation).

[lucaspm98]

Actually, there is one thing the Chinese admit to loving more than both saving and gambling: Gold.

Thankfully many of them are starting to see that bitcoin is superior to gold in every single aspect, and their government can't steal it from them.

I foresee both China and India holding more than 30% of the planet's bitcoin each before 2016. The way USSA regulations are starting to look; we'll probably only hold about 1% by then.

Yup, and the saving and gambling tendencies goes hand in hand with Bitcoin. I see the worldwide acceptance of Bitcoin skyrocketing in the near future.

[solex]

I'm sure that many traders in China just love Bitcoin because it's something that keeps going up. It could represent black pearl encrusted tigerskin handbags for all they care. However, when it is generally realized that it is the perfect currency for international trade settlement, then expect a wave of factories to begin accepting btc for their exports.

[oakpacific]

I'm sure that many traders in China just love Bitcoin because it's something that keeps going up. It could represent black pearl encrusted tigerskin handbags for all they care. However, when it is generally realized that it is the perfect currency for international trade settlement, then expect a wave of factories to begin accepting btc for their exports.

I am more of the hope that those black pearl encrusted tigerskin handbags selling shops in the developed world will someday make the shocking discovery of what kind of a business opportunity it will give them if they start accepting bitcoins.

[Anon136]

Actually, there is one thing the Chinese admit to loving more than both saving and gambling: Gold.

Thankfully many of them are starting to see that bitcoin is superior to gold in every single aspect, and their government can't steal it from them.

I foresee both China and India holding more than 30% of the planet's bitcoin each before 2016. The way USSA regulations are starting to look; we'll probably only hold about 1% by then.

bitcoin is not superior to gold in every single aspect. gold is a much safer more secure store of value. it has thousands of years of history as a reliable store of value, bitcoin can make no similar claim. a flaw in bitcoin could be found tomorrow bringing the value crashing down to ~ zero or a crypto that is superior in every way could be invented that would steal ~ all of bitcoins market share. bitcoin is for transferring value and speculating, gold is for making your wealth safe and secure. both very useful for what they do but different utilities entirely.

[oakpacific]

Actually, there is one thing the Chinese admit to loving more than both saving and gambling: Gold.

Thankfully many of them are starting to see that bitcoin is superior to gold in every single aspect, and their government can't steal it from them.

I foresee both China and India holding more than 30% of the planet's bitcoin each before 2016. The way USSA regulations are starting to look; we'll probably only hold about 1% by then.

bitcoin is not superior to gold in every single aspect. gold is a much safer more secure store of value. it has thousands of years of history as a reliable store of value, bitcoin can make no similar claim. a flaw in bitcoin could be found tomorrow bringing the value crashing down to ~ zero or a crypto that is superior in every way could be invented that would steal ~ all of bitcoins market share. bitcoin is for transferring value and speculating, gold is for making your wealth safe and secure. both very useful for what they do but different utilities entirely.

There is a higher chance that your house gets broken into by the burglars than Bitcoin crypto breaks down I believe.

[TooCasual]

I'm sure that many traders in China just love Bitcoin because it's something that keeps going up. It could represent black pearl encrusted tigerskin handbags for all they care. However, when it is generally realized that it is the perfect currency for international trade settlement, then expect a wave of factories to begin accepting btc for their exports.

+100 perfectly said...

TC

[BTCLuke]

bitcoin is not superior to gold in every single aspect.

I'll have to disagree; but I will admit that not everyone agrees with me.

I agree with this guy though on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QFErOdTag

(Excepting only the fact that he calls divisibility a tie; when I know there is no way to get a uniform satoshi's worth out of an ounce of gold. BTC clearly wins divisibility too.)

gold is a much safer more secure store of value.

I can't take 1 ounce of gold and back it up in many formats & in infinite places, nor can I own gold deniably very well. So, no.

But of course most people are irrationally afraid of backing up their data because they don't understand it yet, so I am under no illusion that it will take years for them to come around to understanding bitcoin safety like I do.

it has thousands of years of history as a reliable store of value, bitcoin can make no similar claim.

Again that's just perception, not actual safety.

a flaw in bitcoin could be found tomorrow bringing the value crashing down to ~ zero

I've watched long enough; I'm convinced it doesn't exist.

or a crypto that is superior in every way could be invented that would steal ~ all of bitcoins market share.

Bitcoin is borg. It would be assimilated.

I don't care if it gave every user a pony; no future coin can fight the vast advantage bitcoin has in its' network effect.

bitcoin is for transferring value and speculating, gold is for making your wealth safe and secure. both very useful for what they do but different utilities entirely.

In case you haven't noticed, far more people are using it as a store of value now than anything else. I'd bet you fall under that label too.

At any moment there are only dozens, maybe a hundred people speculating actively... Every BTC holder is storing value.

One day, hopefully next year, BTC's benefits as a payment & remittance system will be fully appreciated and that will become the most important aspect on that day. You'll know it's arrived because Western Union will be placing little "going out of business" signs on all of their shops.  

[Anon136]

ill concede that you are probably right about all of these things. the thing is that you might not be, and the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about gold is much slimmer than the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about bitcoin. so for example i dont think that either gold or bitcoin are going to crash down to a value of 0 but if i was to be wrong about that it would be much more likey that bitcoin would crash down to 0 than gold, relatively speaking. in my eyes this makes gold safer and if its safety and security that you are after than gold is the best bet.

with that being said i dont own very much gold because im young and ultimate safety is not an appealing promise for me. Imagine however that you are an old retired grandma who has earned more than enough to survive the rest of her life, is she really going to want to jump on the btc rollercoaster, even if the general trend is up? what good does becoming a millionaire do her, she just wants to bake cakes and watch soap operas and be secure in her ability to do those things.

[notthematrix]

ill concede that you are probably right about all of these things. the thing is that you might not be, and the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about gold is much slimmer than the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about bitcoin. so for example i dont think that either gold or bitcoin are going to crash down to a value of 0 but if i was to be wrong about that it would be much more likey that bitcoin would crash down to 0 than gold, relatively speaking. in my eyes this makes gold safer and if its safety and security that you are after than gold is the best bet.

with that being said i dont own very much gold because im young and ultimate safety is not an appealing promise for me. Imagine however that you are an old retired grandma who has earned more than enough to survive the rest of her life, is she really going to want to jump on the btc rollercoaster, even if the general trend is up? what good does becoming a millionaire do her, she just wants to bake cakes and watch soap operas and be secure in her ability to do those things.

You make one mistake gold DOES NOT stay with the owner , at war's!
Gold does not loose value but you loose the gold!
Thats why bitcoin is   superior over gold.
bitcoins can be stored in your brain , so nobody can proof you have them or detect it when robbing you!
with gold , a kalasnikov at your head and you will not keep it.
with bitcoins even killing you will not give them your bitcoins!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QFErOdTag explained.

[laowai80]

I've noticed renewed interest among the chinese for the chinese wikipedia page on bitcoin:

http://stats.grok.se/zh/latest30/%E6%AF%94%E7%89%B9%E5%B8%81

last time it spiked at the end of October after their major TV channel showed a news piece on the canadian ATM, so yesterday there was another spike, maybe another mention on their TV, who knows.

[Anon136]

ill concede that you are probably right about all of these things. the thing is that you might not be, and the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about gold is much slimmer than the chance that i am wrong about what i believe about bitcoin. so for example i dont think that either gold or bitcoin are going to crash down to a value of 0 but if i was to be wrong about that it would be much more likey that bitcoin would crash down to 0 than gold, relatively speaking. in my eyes this makes gold safer and if its safety and security that you are after than gold is the best bet.

with that being said i dont own very much gold because im young and ultimate safety is not an appealing promise for me. Imagine however that you are an old retired grandma who has earned more than enough to survive the rest of her life, is she really going to want to jump on the btc rollercoaster, even if the general trend is up? what good does becoming a millionaire do her, she just wants to bake cakes and watch soap operas and be secure in her ability to do those things.

You make one mistake gold DOES NOT stay with the owner , at war's!
Gold does not loose value but you loose the gold!
Thats why bitcoin is   superior over gold.
bitcoins can be stored in your brain , so nobody can proof you have them or detect it when robbing you!
with gold , a kalasnikov at your head and you will not keep it.
with bitcoins even killing you will not give them your bitcoins!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QFErOdTag explained.

i dont think gold and bitcoin are so different in this respect. the only way the government can confiscate your gold is by sending goons around to hold your feet to the fire. why do you suppose someone who is under such duress would be more or less likely to give up one than the other?

*edit* i suppose it would be harder to hide your gold coins than your bitcoins. still i think my argument applies as to why grandma would prefer gold to bitcoin, assuming world war 3 doesn't happen.

[elasticband]

the chinese see bitcoin as a more practical finite resource than gold and they are going mad for it, it's sad that they have more fore site than the rest of the planet

[dree12]

40% is an amazing number. Just goes to show how the West really is unjustified in accusing the Chinese of sexism: apparently this ratio is commonplace in tech industries in China.

Here's a quote from Jenny Bai, an executive of Girls in Tech China:

Mao taught that women in China hold up half the sky, which is something that still holds true amongst today’s generation; Chinese women also have a stronger education background in science and tech than American women. These hard skills, coupled with society’s mentality that women can do whatever they choose, definitely takes down the general idea of a gender discrimination barrier.

[BTCLuke]

i dont think gold and bitcoin are so different in this respect. the only way the government can confiscate your gold is by sending goons around to hold your feet to the fire.

Au contraire! If you store it in a bank vault, they already have the keys! If you hide it in your house, they can always rip your house apart trying to find it while you are away. (Or detained for one of infinite reasons)

Deniability is the 21st century's most important technological invention. If someone with enough power wants your gold badly enough; THEY WILL GET IT. Period, end of story. And you risk life in prison or a bullet in the head trying to hide it!

Even outside the government, for instance the mafia or a skilled & dangerous criminal, can have your gold whenever they want it.

If someone wants your deniable data (including a brainwallet) badly enough; they can't kill you for something they can't detect you have, nor are they very likely to be able to hold you very long on the suspicion that you have it.

Check out Julian Assange's Rubberhose file system for more on this subject.

I see deniable data as the first real advancement in human freedom since the gun. It's that big of a deal.

why do you suppose someone who is under such duress would be more or less likely to give up one than the other?

If the data is truly deniable, there is never a reason to give it up, and far less likely to be traced to you in the first place.

still i think my argument applies as to why grandma would prefer gold to bitcoin, assuming world war 3 doesn't happen.

In the universe of bitcoin, grandmas still do not exist. We'll get to her in 2015 or 2016...

[oakpacific]

I've noticed renewed interest among the chinese for the chinese wikipedia page on bitcoin:

http://stats.grok.se/zh/latest30/%E6%AF%94%E7%89%B9%E5%B8%81

last time it spiked at the end of October after their major TV channel showed a news piece on the canadian ATM, so yesterday there was another spike, maybe another mention on their TV, who knows.

Bitcoin-QT download statistics shows China at the top again http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/stats/map .

It's a shame that Multibit can't publish any download statistics.

[NewLiberty]

the chinese see bitcoin as a more practical finite resource than gold and they are going mad for it, it's sad that they have more fore site than the rest of the planet

I don't even know if that is true, but why is it sad?

[NewLiberty]

Au contraire! If you store it in a bank vault, they already have the keys! If you hide it in your house, they can always rip your house apart trying to find it while you are away. (Or detained for one of infinite reasons)

... yes, and all computers, and backups are secure?

"Ring the bells that still can ring, Forget your perfect offering, there is a hole in everything, that's how the light gets in."

[BTCLuke]

... yes, and all computers, and backups are secure?

"Ring the bells that still can ring, Forget your perfect offering, there is a hole in everything, that's how the light gets in."

I was speaking about deniable systems, like a brainwallet.

[NewLiberty]

... yes, and all computers, and backups are secure?

"Ring the bells that still can ring, Forget your perfect offering, there is a hole in everything, that's how the light gets in."

I was speaking about deniable systems, like a brainwallet.

OK, then maybe he was speaking of his MATS vaulted bullion.
Or his buried treasure chest with a memorized or encoded map.  
We all love our bitcoin, but lets not overreach.  Its not perfect for everyone or all purposes, and may never be, that doesn't mean it is anything less than what it is, the best new money produced in ages.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Buried treasure has territorial issues, isn't transportable, and is otherwise extremely impractical for many eventualities.

Brainwallets do it all: deniability, instant access, not capital controllable, not stealable...

[jzcjca00]

You'll know it's arrived because Western Union will be placing little "going out of business" signs on all of their shops.  

Western Union is Borg.  They will assimilate Bitcoin.

[NewLiberty]

Buried treasure has territorial issues, isn't transportable, and is otherwise extremely impractical for many eventualities.

Brainwallets do it all: deniability, instant access, not capital controllable, not stealable...

Memory fails, people have strokes, requires technology, can't wear virtual on your finger as a symbol of the purity of your eternal love.
Don't get me wrong, I love bitcoin and have more of it now than gold, but nothing is perfect, don't oversell.  Brainwallets do not "do it all".

[neutrinox]

Memory fails

Affects also your gold (hidden gold stashes). If you can create a gold stash you can remember in your brain, you can create a bitcoin brain wallet that you can remember in your brain.

requires technology

True, but the needed technology is everywhere. It's like saying gold is bad because humans using it need air to breathe. Not a problem when you are surrounded by air.

can't wear virtual on your finger as a symbol of the purity of your eternal love.

Of course you can! Have some imagination!

[dudebit]

A diversified stash is best - because we just don't know what the future holds.
Gold, bitcoin, cash - there are scenarios where any one of these could be rendered useless
and possibly 2 of them. Very unlikely all 3 at the same time though.

[laowai80]

One of Chinese satellite TV channels released a 22-minute show on Bitcoin today:

http://v.ifeng.com/news/finance/201311/01f1f7a2-e0f8-464c-9f93-b360dbdfa2b1.shtml

problem is the video is going so slow, I still can't watch it, is it prime time there now and everyone watching at the moment or something.

[laowai80]

check it out, amazing, people flocking to wikipedia after the tv show!

http://stats.grok.se/zh/latest60/%E6%AF%94%E7%89%B9%E5%B8%81

[NewLiberty]

A diversified stash is best - because we just don't know what the future holds.
Gold, bitcoin, cash - there are scenarios where any one of these could be rendered useless
and possibly 2 of them. Very unlikely all 3 at the same time though.

Yes. 
Bits and Atoms. 
One is transcendent, ephemeral, virtual, the other tangible, solid, eternal.
To say one is better is like saying energy is better than matter.

Throw cash into the mix, only if you need legal tender, something folks are forced by law to accept.

[NewLiberty]

requires technology

True, but the needed technology is everywhere. It's like saying gold is bad because humans using it need air to breathe. Not a problem when you are surrounded by air.

Not yet, but someday.
When the technology is as common as clean air, there may be less clean air.

[TraderTimm]

Every old-timer goldbug always brings up the "what if the internet goes away" argument. Then they triumphantly crow that gold is used for thousands of years, blah blah blah blah.

Well, guess what, we had a "trial run" of that gold superiority in the Philippines after the typhoon. I didn't see any local businesses selling food for gold coins, or someone trading gold for a plane ticket out of there. There was no infrastructure remaining, no food, no water. About as "hell on earth" as you can get when prior to that you had all three.

That is the problem with that scenario. Food will rise in cost until it is worth more than gold or anything else. I have some bread, and I NEED it, so fuck you and your gold coins buddy - because I'll eat it and outlast you, then I'll take your shiny metal from your dead fingers.

As for the whole "internet down" scenario, I can only shake my head. That's the best you can do? The ENTIRE WORLD has to be fucked for Bitcoin to fail? Trying too hard, aren't you? It just boggles my mind.

Goddamn dinosaurs.