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Author Topic: Warren Buffet to buy Bitcoins?  (Read 6722 times)
kireinaha
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November 15, 2013, 05:40:28 PM
 #21

This assumption is simply false. Not everyone's ultimate goal is fiat, mine is that bitcoin becomes successful and I can use it instead of fiat. I'm sure I'm not the only one around here.

Ok, sorry, not everyone, but that's what most are thinking. I personally don't want to keep my money in a currency that can swing in value 10%-50% in one day, and can be wiped out by a hardware failure or theft. At least if something happens to my USD in the bank, it's covered by FDIC insurance.

Night gathers, and now my bitcoinwisdom watch begins.
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November 15, 2013, 05:49:18 PM
 #22

Buffet only invests in assets that produce something and yield dividends. He says if there is no dividend then it is not an investment but only a price speculation, or gambling. He needs to have two sources of gain: the price increase and the dividends, not just one - the price increase.  His main MO is buy and hold, never sell, and just collect dividends.

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BitcoinAshley
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November 15, 2013, 07:11:33 PM
 #23

Absolutely, I agree. Everyone who is currently investing in bitcoin has one ultimate goal: cash out and collect fiat. But some people online don't expect to do that until BTC reaches $100,000 and I highly doubt that day will ever come.


QUOTED FOR ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. Seriously, you win #1 bullshit of the year award for this statement. You said "EVERYONE who is currently investing.... has (x) goal"
That means your statement can be proven wrong with just one example.
So I present myself. QED. Bullshit called. Better luck next time bucko ;-)

(Seriously, though, you can't just get up and speak for EVERYONE. A large part of what some trolls would call the "bitcoin cult" has ultimately one goal: To absolutely destroy fiat. Completely incompatible with your claimed "goal of everyone." So I call bullshit AGAIN, since the "true believers" who wish to, **MORE OR LESS**, annihilate fiat altogether are not exactly hard to find and number in at least the thousands or tens of thousands.) 

Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit. I mean, come on, you could not have GOTTEN any bullshittier than that. And the confidence & matter-of-factness with which you worded that statement was just plain offensive.
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November 15, 2013, 07:37:15 PM
 #24

Buffet only invests in assets that produce something and yield dividends. He says if there is no dividend then it is not an investment but only a price speculation, or gambling. He needs to have two sources of gain: the price increase and the dividends, not just one - the price increase.  His main MO is buy and hold, never sell, and just collect dividends.
Yeah, this.

Buffet's verdict on Bitcoin may still be up in the air, but I guarantee that he'll never hold it as an investment, even if he decides that Gates was right and Munger was wrong. It suffers from the same problem that Buffet sees with "investing" in gold: gold doesn't do anything - at best, it's just an instrument - so the only way to profit on it is speculation. Real investment in Buffet's philosophy is buying something that is useful... for instance, a corporation, which consistently makes profit in a way the investor can understand and be confident in.

So really, the question is if/when Buffet would invest in Bitcoin-using businesses, and whether it'll happen because he added a Bitcoin-using business to his portfolio, or because one of the businesses in his portfolio started using Bitcoin on their own.

If there is something that will make Bitcoin succeed, it is growth of utility - greater quantity and variety of goods and services offered for BTC. If there is something that will make Bitcoin fail, it is the prevalence of users convinced that BTC is a magic box that will turn them into millionaires, and of the con-artists who have followed them here to devour them.
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November 15, 2013, 07:45:47 PM
 #25

I would love to know what George Soros thinks.
Buffet is wrong person. He is an investor, not a speculator.

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November 15, 2013, 07:55:45 PM
 #26

I don't understand why someone in Buffet's position would outright never buy bitcoins. So what if it's risky? If you put 100.000 USD into it, and Bitcoin just collapses, so what? You probably have more money between your coach cussions. It's not like you'll be on the street, dancing for nickles. On the other hand, if Bitcoin goes mainstream big-time, the upside is astronomical. I don't understand this attitude.

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kireinaha
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November 15, 2013, 07:58:04 PM
 #27

Absolutely, I agree. Everyone who is currently investing in bitcoin has one ultimate goal: cash out and collect fiat. But some people online don't expect to do that until BTC reaches $100,000 and I highly doubt that day will ever come.


QUOTED FOR ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. Seriously, you win #1 bullshit of the year award for this statement. You said "EVERYONE who is currently investing.... has (x) goal"
That means your statement can be proven wrong with just one example.
So I present myself. QED. Bullshit called. Better luck next time bucko ;-)

(Seriously, though, you can't just get up and speak for EVERYONE. A large part of what some trolls would call the "bitcoin cult" has ultimately one goal: To absolutely destroy fiat. Completely incompatible with your claimed "goal of everyone." So I call bullshit AGAIN, since the "true believers" who wish to, **MORE OR LESS**, annihilate fiat altogether are not exactly hard to find and number in at least the thousands or tens of thousands.) 

Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit. I mean, come on, you could not have GOTTEN any bullshittier than that. And the confidence & matter-of-factness with which you worded that statement was just plain offensive.

You missed the point. I don't care about the handful of people on this forum and on reddit who believe bitcoin is going "to da moon" and is set on a trajectory to destroy fiat and world domination; their starry eyed speculation has no basis in reality and I don't even consider them to be investors. A better term would be "wreckless gambling" or "delusional". You know, I'm happy for you. Honestly. If you really believe that bitcoin is going to destroy fiat, you obviously live in a dream world and you must enjoy it there. So more power to you.

Night gathers, and now my bitcoinwisdom watch begins.
deadweasel
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November 15, 2013, 07:58:34 PM
 #28

I don't understand why someone in Buffet's position would outright never buy bitcoins. So what if it's risky? If you put 100.000 USD into it, and Bitcoin just collapses, so what? You probably have more money between your coach cussions. It's not like you'll be on the street, dancing for nickles. On the other hand, if Bitcoin goes mainstream big-time, the upside is astronomical. I don't understand this attitude.

Buffet is traditional.  He invests based on economic value of an on-going concern.  He is not a speculator the way bitcoiners are...

notme
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November 15, 2013, 08:13:39 PM
 #29

I don't understand why someone in Buffet's position would outright never buy bitcoins. So what if it's risky? If you put 100.000 USD into it, and Bitcoin just collapses, so what? You probably have more money between your coach cussions. It's not like you'll be on the street, dancing for nickles. On the other hand, if Bitcoin goes mainstream big-time, the upside is astronomical. I don't understand this attitude.

Buffet is traditional.  He invests based on economic value of an on-going concern.  He is not a speculator the way bitcoiners are...

This, and he is one of the few big investors that knows when "enough is enough".  He still lives in the same home he bought for under $40k.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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NUFCrichard
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November 15, 2013, 08:16:56 PM
 #30

Buffet only invests in assets that produce something and yield dividends. He says if there is no dividend then it is not an investment but only a price speculation, or gambling. He needs to have two sources of gain: the price increase and the dividends, not just one - the price increase.  His main MO is buy and hold, never sell, and just collect dividends.
Yeah, this.

Buffet's verdict on Bitcoin may still be up in the air, but I guarantee that he'll never hold it as an investment, even if he decides that Gates was right and Munger was wrong. It suffers from the same problem that Buffet sees with "investing" in gold: gold doesn't do anything - at best, it's just an instrument - so the only way to profit on it is speculation. Real investment in Buffet's philosophy is buying something that is useful... for instance, a corporation, which consistently makes profit in a way the investor can understand and be confident in.

So really, the question is if/when Buffet would invest in Bitcoin-using businesses, and whether it'll happen because he added a Bitcoin-using business to his portfolio, or because one of the businesses in his portfolio started using Bitcoin on their own.

But he could invest indirectly in bitcoin them by buying up bitcoin companies... Hopefully gox!
wobber
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November 15, 2013, 08:18:33 PM
 #31

I don't understand why someone in Buffet's position would outright never buy bitcoins. So what if it's risky? If you put 100.000 USD into it, and Bitcoin just collapses, so what? You probably have more money between your coach cussions. It's not like you'll be on the street, dancing for nickles. On the other hand, if Bitcoin goes mainstream big-time, the upside is astronomical. I don't understand this attitude.

Buffet is traditional.  He invests based on economic value of an on-going concern.  He is not a speculator the way bitcoiners are...

This, and he is one of the few big investors that knows when "enough is enough".  He still lives in the same home he bought for under $40k.

This frugality is to admire. It's clear he enjoyes doing business and money are a side-effect of winning. But he could surely invest some more into tech, his offices are full of CRT monitors. Use LCD goddamit, they're more power efficient. And he could also change his old car.

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November 15, 2013, 08:22:23 PM
 #32

"yes, bitcoin is rat pison - the banks are the rats!"

saw someone post this before on this forum and I love this quote... Cheesy

After Fannie and Freddy... it's not just a quote.

Yay, verily!
It's pretty much policy now.

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Odalv
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November 15, 2013, 10:23:18 PM
 #33

I don't understand why someone in Buffet's position would outright never buy bitcoins. So what if it's risky? If you put 100.000 USD into it, and Bitcoin just collapses, so what? You probably have more money between your coach cussions. It's not like you'll be on the street, dancing for nickles. On the other hand, if Bitcoin goes mainstream big-time, the upside is astronomical. I don't understand this attitude.

Buffet is traditional.  He invests based on economic value of an on-going concern.  He is not a speculator the way bitcoiners are...

No, he is MOTHER TERESA ... he takes from richest and gives to poor
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November 15, 2013, 10:26:21 PM
 #34

OMgWB
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November 16, 2013, 01:25:05 AM
 #35

I don't understand why someone in Buffet's position would outright never buy bitcoins. So what if it's risky? If you put 100.000 USD into it, and Bitcoin just collapses, so what? You probably have more money between your coach cussions. It's not like you'll be on the street, dancing for nickles. On the other hand, if Bitcoin goes mainstream big-time, the upside is astronomical. I don't understand this attitude.
The issue isn't that bitcoins are risky. The issue is that bitcoins are at best an instrument/currency/commodity/tool. Buffet invests in stocks because stocks are shares of companies, and companies do things - build things - constantly produce real value by plying a trade that he can model in his head and see why it constitutes economic over-unity. Whereas, you buy a million BTC and put it in an address, and the value might go up but those bitcoins aren't doing anything. They're just sitting there like a big fried egg.

But he could invest indirectly in bitcoin them by buying up bitcoin companies... Hopefully gox!
That'd certainly be something to see. I'd be surprised if it was Gox, though, given how much hot water they've hopped into lately (losing their ability to send wires, trade engine malfunctions...)

If there is something that will make Bitcoin succeed, it is growth of utility - greater quantity and variety of goods and services offered for BTC. If there is something that will make Bitcoin fail, it is the prevalence of users convinced that BTC is a magic box that will turn them into millionaires, and of the con-artists who have followed them here to devour them.
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November 16, 2013, 01:30:34 AM
 #36

Warren Buffett has said before that he doesn't invest in things (technology) he doesn't understand.  

I extremely doubt he understands Bitcoin, or even a computer.  Man is old school.
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November 16, 2013, 02:10:18 AM
 #37

Warren buffet doesn't touch tech investments at all and besides he could buy the entire network
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November 16, 2013, 02:45:44 AM
 #38

Buffet only invests in assets that produce something and yield dividends. He says if there is no dividend then it is not an investment but only a price speculation, or gambling. He needs to have two sources of gain: the price increase and the dividends, not just one - the price increase.  His main MO is buy and hold, never sell, and just collect dividends.
Yeah, this.

Buffet's verdict on Bitcoin may still be up in the air, but I guarantee that he'll never hold it as an investment, even if he decides that Gates was right and Munger was wrong. It suffers from the same problem that Buffet sees with "investing" in gold: gold doesn't do anything - at best, it's just an instrument - so the only way to profit on it is speculation. Real investment in Buffet's philosophy is buying something that is useful... for instance, a corporation, which consistently makes profit in a way the investor can understand and be confident in.

So really, the question is if/when Buffet would invest in Bitcoin-using businesses, and whether it'll happen because he added a Bitcoin-using business to his portfolio, or because one of the businesses in his portfolio started using Bitcoin on their own.

Yes, this is exactly why Buffet will not invest in Bitcoin, even if he one day looks seriously at the technology and gets it.

But what is interesting about Bitcoin is there are two aspects to investing:

1) Investing in BTC is similar to investing in Gold in that BTC is just money. It sits there and maintains value. This is the buffet limited view.

2) Investing in BTC during the startup phase is similar to investing in the Bitcoin ecosystem, and the ecosystem is very actively investing in itself and growing. This is the bitcoin believer view.
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November 16, 2013, 03:25:44 AM
 #39

The Rat poison comment actually comes from Buffet's long term business partner in Berkshire Hathaway (who is like the Paul Allen to his Bill Gates).  Buffet seems to be more indifferent towards BTC then this partner person who seems actually hostile.


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adamstgBit
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November 16, 2013, 03:42:07 AM
 #40

The Rat poison comment actually comes from Buffet's long term business partner in Berkshire Hathaway (who is like the Paul Allen to his Bill Gates).  Buffet seems to be more indifferent towards BTC then this partner person who seems actually hostile.

these guys have made billions exploiting the current money scheme, they love it!

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