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Author Topic: Complete Newbie: Am I ready?  (Read 1661 times)
bitzenbits (OP)
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November 15, 2013, 05:10:58 PM
 #1

Complete and total Newbie, here.

I *just* heard of Bitcoins on Monday, for the first time ever.
I stopped everything and have researched, read, studied and explored nearly nonstop since Monday morning.
Here I am at Friday morning - and want to be sure that the things I believe I *do* understand are correct;
...and looking for clarification in layman's terms of the things I am still confused about.

Are my concepts correct on these notes?

1. A *client* and a *wallet* are one in the same, in that I can't use Coinbase as my client, but have Electrum as a wallet for the same address... I need to pick either/or, correct?

2. I have to choose one device to download the wallet to. Anyone who hacks, steals or otherwise has access to my device would then have access to my Bitcoins, unless I take them off the device and put them in "cold storage" (which is the same thing as "paper wallet.)

3. Paper wallets/cold storage is only truly safe if every trace of "private keys" is wiped from the device they were originally created on, correct?

4. Best way to get my "feet wet" would be to choose a wallet and have someone send me a minimal fraction of Bitcoins, right?

5. My coins are vulnerable to attack/disappearance anytime I'm using a client/wallet... which is why cold storage/paper wallet is always best - if I have no intent to spend. Am I on track?

But now... here's where my heart starts thumping in frustrated confusion:

1. Clients get robbed/hacked more and more recently, and it seems likely that this will continue being an issue because there can never be 100% security when you're entrusting a client with your wallet... SO... why would anyone bother using a client, to begin with? Shouldn't I just stay on the safe side by skipping online storage and go directly to paper wallet? (side note - I'm planning to put in very minimal amounts initially, until I get the hang of the whole system.)

2. Is there a way to skip having a client and go straight to offline wallet? (sorry if I sound repetitive - I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this via different wording.)

3. I am soooooo lost re: private keys. All the articles I've read, discussions I've followed and videos I've watched have still rendered me LOST. Say John Doe sends me a tiny fraction of a BTC to help me get started. Now my wallet generates a key for the address John sent funds to. I decide to add funds to the wallet by buying BTC from someone on eBay... would I have the seller send the funds to the exact same address? And if so - would I then get another key for that address to replace the first, or would it be two keys for the one address, or would the key remain the same no matter how many funds add up in that address? And then... why would anyone ever need more than one or two addresses? (I can see having one for saving and one for using/trading/sending/selling, etc... but why do some people have numerous addresses?)

4. If anyone/everyone can see how much BTC each address has, this means that every time you give an address out for people to send funds to, they can go look up how much BTC you already have... right? Isn't that like opening your wallet in front of the cashier and pouring your $ out on the counter for them to see?  Or... does that kinda answer the previous question (duh, think I just answered the last question on my own, right? Hence... why people have numerous addresses?!?)

5. Please, please... someone just tell me which client/wallet to get started with. The goal is to get it offline, but I really need to get a feel for the system now. I thought I read that Coinbase is very vulnerable to hacking, other issues and potential future regulation. I thought Electrum sounded like a perfect alternative, since it seems easier to go offline with. Bitcoin QT sounds good - maybe - but I'm overwhelmed with information at this point.

Any/all advice and help is welcome and wanted!
Thanks!
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November 15, 2013, 05:12:47 PM
 #2

The wallets depend on your preferences. Read up on them and decide which one suits you the best. Are you ready? everyone has to start somewhere.

On a mission to make Bitcointalk.org Marketplace a safer place to Buy/Sell/Trade
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November 15, 2013, 05:29:23 PM
 #3

Wallet address - Everyone that pays you will use this address, you have to give it to them
Private Key - Confidential part, if anyone has them except you can they can steal your funds
Wallet - A wallet.dat stores private key + public key + wallet address

Crypto news/tutorials >>CoinRamble<<                            >>Netcodepool<<                >>My graphics<<
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November 15, 2013, 05:47:56 PM
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Just start with small amounts of money when you are getting things figured out and you'll be fine.
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November 15, 2013, 06:02:43 PM
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Just start with small amounts of money when you are getting things figured out and you'll be fine.

Hi, what is the smallest amount that someone could start with for bitcoin? For example, I imagine if you try to buy some bitcoin, there would be a minimum amount that you can buy. Where is the place with the lowest minimum? If you are looking to just use a small amount of money to get started, would litecoin be a better choice?

Thanks
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November 15, 2013, 06:05:12 PM
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1. A *client* and a *wallet* are one in the same,

There is a lot of slop in how these words ("client", "wallet") are used.  This can lead to some confusion.  Technically (as far as I'm concerned), something is only a "wallet" if it allows you control over private keys.  As such, Coinbase is an "account" (like a bank account), and not a "wallet".  A "client" on the other hand would be anything that connects to bitcoin peers and communicates on the bitcoin network.  Many wallets are clients (such as Bitcoin-Qt), but there are wallets (such as paper wallets) that are not clients.  It would also be possible to create a client (that simply acts as a relay) that isn't a wallet.

in that I can't use Coinbase as my client, but have Electrum as a wallet for the same address... I need to pick either/or, correct?

You can have a Coinbase account AND an Electrum wallet if you want.  It is generally a really bad idea to try to share addresses between multiple controlling entities though. Each wallet or account that you use should have its own unique set of addresses. None of these "wallets" or "accounts" are really designed to synchronize between each other.  So if you have an address in Electrum and you import that address into blockchain.info, you run a significant risk of creating a transaction in one that the other doesn't know about.  This leads to lots of confusion and angst over lost bitcoins, double-spends, and invalid balances.

2. I have to choose one device to download the wallet to. Anyone who hacks, steals or otherwise has access to my device would then have access to my Bitcoins,

Yes.  There are solutions that add inconvenience but which reduce this risk.  One such solution is Armory.  Encrypting your wallet with a password can help quite a bit, although it won't help if you end up with keylogging malware on the device that captures your password when you type it.

unless I take them off the device and put them in "cold storage" (which is the same thing as "paper wallet.)

Paper wallet is one form of "cold storage"  You could also look into Electrum offline, and Armory.

3. Paper wallets/cold storage is only truly safe if every trace of "private keys" is wiped from the device they were originally created on, correct?

Correct.  Anyone with access to the private key can ALWAYS spend/steal the bitcoins.  Cold storage is just a way to significantly reduce the potential access to the private keys.

4. Best way to get my "feet wet" would be to choose a wallet and have someone send me a minimal fraction of Bitcoins, right?

I'd suggest purchasing an "educational quantity" of bitcoins.  Something you can play around with and not get upset if you accidentally do something bad (like deleting a wallet, or posting a private key to a discussion forum) and lose them all.  How much depends on your own personal financial situation, but in my opinion it should be at least 0.05 BTC. Since the quantity won't be a significant sum you can play around with some of the lightweight wallets such as MultiBit, Electrum and blockchain.info/wallet and not have to panic about the fact that you are "online".

5. My coins are vulnerable to attack/disappearance anytime I'm using a client/wallet... which is why cold storage/paper wallet is always best - if I have no intent to spend. Am I on track?

Yes,  you are vulnerable to attack/theft anytime your private keys are somewhere that someone else might gain access to them.  Wallets such as Armory allow you to create transactions without putting your private keys on a computer that's connected to the internet.

1. Clients get robbed/hacked more and more recently, and it seems likely that this will continue being an issue because there can never be 100% security when you're entrusting a client with your wallet...

I really haven't heard much about Armory, Electrum, MultiBit, or Bitcoin-Qt being hacked.  Especially if the wallet is encrypted with a password.  While it isn't impossible, it is a rather rare occurrence and generally results from individuals installing and running untrustworthy software on the same computer as their wallet.

why would anyone bother using a client, to begin with?

If you want to send a bitcoin transaction, you pretty much have to use some sort of client to connect to the network and broadcast the transaction.

Shouldn't I just stay on the safe side by skipping online storage

Not sure what you mean by "online storage".  If you are talking about bitcoin based accounts where you don't have access to the private keys (such as Coinbase, MtGox, BitStamp, etc.)  then yes.  You should definitely avoid that as much as possible if you want to "stay on the safe side".  If you are talking about wallets that connect to peers (such as MultiBit, Electrum, Bitcoin-Qt), then you'll have to make a decision about what you want in the way of convenience and security.

and go directly to paper wallet? (side note - I'm planning to put in very minimal amounts initially, until I get the hang of the whole system.)

If you're just looking for long term storage, then this is a perfectly good option.  Just make sure you have multiple copies in multiple locations (wouldn't want to loose your bitcoins to a fire, flood, tornado, etc) and that they aren't accessible by anyone that might want to steal the bitcoins from you.

2. Is there a way to skip having a client and go straight to offline wallet? (sorry if I sound repetitive - I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this via different wording.)

Yes.  Generate the paper wallet offline.  When you purchase bitcoins, have the sender send to your paper wallet address.

3. I am soooooo lost re: private keys. All the articles I've read, discussions I've followed and videos I've watched have still rendered me LOST. Say John Doe sends me a tiny fraction of a BTC to help me get started. Now my wallet generates a key for the address John sent funds to.

No.  The key is generated first.  Then the key is used to generate the address.  Then you give the address out to the person that is sending you the bitcoins.  A proper paper wallet will have both the private key and the address on it.

I decide to add funds to the wallet by buying BTC from someone on eBay...

Ebay?  I'd avoid that, but if you think you can find a good deal from a trustworthy source go ahead.  I'd suggest instead that you look at localbitcoins.com

would I have the seller send the funds to the exact same address?

Best practice is to generate a new address for every transaction.  You can re-use addresses if you choose to though.

And if so - would I then get another key for that address to replace the first,

If you get a new address for the transaction, it will have it's own new private key.  If you re-use an address, then there will not be a new private key.

or would it be two keys for the one address

One address has only one private key.  One private key has only one address.  They are mathematically linked and you can't change one without changing the other.

or would the key remain the same no matter how many funds add up in that address?

Correct.

And then... why would anyone ever need more than one or two addresses? (I can see having one for saving and one for using/trading/sending/selling, etc... but why do some people have numerous addresses?)

It increases security, privacy, and anonymity.  It also helps with accounting.  If I give you a different address than I've given anybody else, then any time I receive a payment at that address I know immediately exactly who it came from.  If I use a new address for every transaction, then I know immediately not only who it came from, but also exactly what the purpose of the transaction was.

4. If anyone/everyone can see how much BTC each address has, this means that every time you give an address out for people to send funds to, they can go look up how much BTC you already have... right? Isn't that like opening your wallet in front of the cashier and pouring your $ out on the counter for them to see?  Or... does that kinda answer the previous question (duh, think I just answered the last question on my own, right? Hence... why people have numerous addresses?!?)

Yes.  you figured it out.

5. Please, please... someone just tell me which client/wallet to get started with. The goal is to get it offline, but I really need to get a feel for the system now.

Just to play around with a small amount of bitcoin and get a feel for things, I'd suggest either blockchain.info/wallet (if you want to be able to access the bitcoins from multiple computers/locations), or MultiBit (if you'll only be accessing it from a single computer).

I thought I read that Coinbase is very vulnerable to hacking, other issues and potential future regulation.

Coinbase is an account held by a company (like an uninsuread, unregulated, un-audited bank account).  It is not a wallet.

I thought Electrum sounded like a perfect alternative, since it seems easier to go offline with.

For getting started and playing around a bit, Electrum, MultiBit, or blockchain.info/wallet.  Look at all three, choose the interface that you like better.

Bitcoin QT sounds good - maybe - but I'm overwhelmed with information at this point.

Bitcoin-Qt is good, but it takes a long time to synchronize and uses up a lot of disk space.  You may want to switch to it, but if you're just trying things out it might not be worth the hassle to start with.
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November 15, 2013, 06:08:23 PM
 #7

Hi, what is the smallest amount that someone could start with for bitcoin? For example, I imagine if you try to buy some bitcoin, there would be a minimum amount that you can buy.

The smallest amount of bitcoin that can currently be sent over the network without issue is a bit less than 0.00005500 BTC (about $0.02475 worth at the current exchange rate).
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November 15, 2013, 06:18:34 PM
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Edit: I see Hamilton already answered everything, but I've already typed so much, here is it anyway ^^ 

1. A *client* and a *wallet* are one in the same, in that I can't use Coinbase as my client, but have Electrum as a wallet for the same address... I need to pick either/or, correct?

The same address can be shared in multiple wallets. For every address there is a private key, which allows you to spend the Bitcoins on the address. (The Bitcoins are always on the blockchain, not in your wallet) You can have this key at multiple places.

Quote
2. I have to choose one device to download the wallet to. Anyone who hacks, steals or otherwise has access to my device would then have access to my Bitcoins, unless I take them off the device and put them in "cold storage" (which is the same thing as "paper wallet.)
Yes, everyone with access to the private keys, can spend the Bitcoins.

Quote
3. Paper wallets/cold storage is only truly safe if every trace of "private keys" is wiped from the device they were originally created on, correct?
correct.

Quote
4. Best way to get my "feet wet" would be to choose a wallet and have someone send me a minimal fraction of Bitcoins, right?
yes, that's a good way to learn.

Quote
5. My coins are vulnerable to attack/disappearance anytime I'm using a client/wallet... which is why cold storage/paper wallet is always best - if I have no intent to spend. Am I on track?
yes

Quote
But now... here's where my heart starts thumping in frustrated confusion:

1. Clients get robbed/hacked more and more recently, and it seems likely that this will continue being an issue because there can never be 100% security when you're entrusting a client with your wallet... SO... why would anyone bother using a client, to begin with? Shouldn't I just stay on the safe side by skipping online storage and go directly to paper wallet? (side note - I'm planning to put in very minimal amounts initially, until I get the hang of the whole system.)
Online and local wallets are more comfortable to use, so you can use it like your real life wallet for day-to-day use.
E.g. You wouldn't run around with $100.000 in your pocket all the time (unless you are filthy rich and don't care about them being lost).

Quote
2. Is there a way to skip having a client and go straight to offline wallet? (sorry if I sound repetitive - I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this via different wording.)

You could do that, receiving is fine (you need no connection to do that). But for spending you will have to use some client.
If you want the most secure way (but probably not easiest), you could try the Armory Offline wallet (spare offline laptop required).
 

Quote
3. I am soooooo lost re: private keys. All the articles I've read, discussions I've followed and videos I've watched have still rendered me LOST. Say John Doe sends me a tiny fraction of a BTC to help me get started. Now my wallet generates a key for the address John sent funds to. I decide to add funds to the wallet by buying BTC from someone on eBay... would I have the seller send the funds to the exact same address? And if so - would I then get another key for that address to replace the first, or would it be two keys for the one address, or would the key remain the same no matter how many funds add up in that address? And then... why would anyone ever need more than one or two addresses? (I can see having one for saving and one for using/trading/sending/selling, etc... but why do some people have numerous addresses?)
You can send it to the same address, however using multiple adresses increases your anonymity.
(btw: don't buy Bitcoins at ebay)

Quote
4. If anyone/everyone can see how much BTC each address has, this means that every time you give an address out for people to send funds to, they can go look up how much BTC you already have... right? Isn't that like opening your wallet in front of the cashier and pouring your $ out on the counter for them to see?  Or... does that kinda answer the previous question (duh, think I just answered the last question on my own, right? Hence... why people have numerous addresses?!?)
yes, you did Wink

Quote
5. Please, please... someone just tell me which client/wallet to get started with. The goal is to get it offline, but I really need to get a feel for the system now. I thought I read that Coinbase is very vulnerable to hacking, other issues and potential future regulation. I thought Electrum sounded like a perfect alternative, since it seems easier to go offline with. Bitcoin QT sounds good - maybe - but I'm overwhelmed with information at this point.

Any/all advice and help is welcome and wanted!
Thanks!

Bitcoin-qt needs to download the whole blockchain, so maybe it's not the best one to try out Bitcoin.
Electrum, Multibit or the online-wallet blockchain.info are good choices for small sums.
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November 15, 2013, 06:26:33 PM
 #9

@bitzenbits: If you give me a Bitcoin address, I will send you a small tip to get you started ^^
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November 15, 2013, 08:43:01 PM
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Build up small positions and take it from there

Mining is not very profitable any more

Cold offline wallets are best....

bitzenbits (OP)
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November 16, 2013, 04:14:33 PM
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WOW - thanks everyone for all the great responses and advice!

I decided to go with blockchain for now... seems that I'm all set up.

I suppose the things that still seem muddled will start clearing up as I go through the motions.

So - on that note...

@Birdy - THANK you; I'm eager to get the feel for a transaction but didn't want to ask anyone!

Address is:

128FXUn67GcR7DXy43ohdA9vGzZpd9sh6h
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November 16, 2013, 04:46:41 PM
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New bitcoiners  might want to check out "Getting Started With Bitcoins" at http://backintyme.com/btc01.php, especially topic 4.1 "Security".

Armed Citizens and the Law -- NRA-certified firearms instructor
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November 16, 2013, 04:52:43 PM
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Hi, what is the smallest amount that someone could start with for bitcoin? For example, I imagine if you try to buy some bitcoin, there would be a minimum amount that you can buy.

The smallest amount of bitcoin that can currently be sent over the network without issue is a bit less than 0.00005500 BTC (about $0.02475 worth at the current exchange rate).


You can get such amounts from free faucets with little work. You may test your wallet + see if your computer is not compromised when the BTC is not lost
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November 16, 2013, 05:10:47 PM
 #14

WOW - thanks everyone for all the great responses and advice!

I decided to go with blockchain for now... seems that I'm all set up.

I suppose the things that still seem muddled will start clearing up as I go through the motions.

So - on that note...

@Birdy - THANK you; I'm eager to get the feel for a transaction but didn't want to ask anyone!

Address is:

128FXUn67GcR7DXy43ohdA9vGzZpd9sh6h

I've sent it Smiley
bitzenbits (OP)
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November 18, 2013, 01:50:33 PM
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Thank you so much, Birdie.

Now - is that it? Is there something I should be doing with the deposits that you and another person sent to me?

What about the "private key" and what-not?

I'd like to find someone on localbitcoin to buy a small bit from... but nervous that I'm still missing something.

This forum is such a huge help; thanks to everyone for all your replies!
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November 18, 2013, 02:05:52 PM
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Thank you so much, Birdie.

Now - is that it? Is there something I should be doing with the deposits that you and another person sent to me?

What about the "private key" and what-not?
There is a private key for every Bitcoin address, it's the really important part, because this is the thing giving you access to spend the Bitcoins.
Wallets like blockchain.info, Electrum... manage those for you.
In blockchain.info you can click on "Import/Export" and then on "Paper Wallet" to see those for all your addresses in there.
(remember to delete the addresses on blockchain.info, if you want to have them only offline)

The private key can be imported to most wallets (and gives you access to the Bitcoins then).
Another website to create your own Paper wallets is https://www.bitaddress.org

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November 18, 2013, 02:11:00 PM
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I am also a bit of a newbie and have a basic question...

If bitcoins are selling at $600 at mtgox (as they are right now) why is it when you try to buy some at bitbargain.co.uk the price there (per unit) is a lot more?

i.e. $600 = £372

but at bitbargain.co.uk the going rate seems to be around £500

can someone explain why this is pls ?
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November 18, 2013, 02:24:30 PM
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I am also a bit of a newbie and have a basic question...

If bitcoins are selling at $600 at mtgox (as they are right now) why is it when you try to buy some at bitbargain.co.uk the price there (per unit) is a lot more?

i.e. $600 = £372

but at bitbargain.co.uk the going rate seems to be around £500

can someone explain why this is pls ?

Because bitbargain is overcharging you.
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November 18, 2013, 02:29:32 PM
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So where is the best place to buy bitcoin in the UK ?
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November 18, 2013, 02:33:02 PM
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So where is the best place to buy bitcoin in the UK ?
I don't live in the UK, so I'm not sure.

Have you looked at localbitcoins.com yet?
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