21e6, LLC - Secretive ASIC manufacturer that raised $5 million

[mrb]

I just read this:

Secretive startup 21E6, another mining-machine seller, is believed to be backed by some of the wealthiest people in Silicon Valley; its co-founder is Balaji Srinivasan, a former Stanford University professor and data-mining expert.

(21e6 refers to the maximum of 21 million bitcoins).

Searching SEC forms, we find they raised $5 million:
http://marketbrief.com/21e6-llc-form-d-sec-filng-000001

With apparently 5 co-founders:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/matt-pauker/0/8b/7a7
http://www.linkedin.com/in/balajissrinivasan
http://www.linkedin.com/in/nigeldrego
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dfiru
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/veerbhan-kheterpal/6/20b/6a7

3 of these 5 persons come from a company (PDF Solutions) that "offers solutions that are designed to enable clients to lower costs of IC design and manufacture, enhance time to market, and improve profitability by addressing design and manufacturing interactions from product design to initial process ramps to mature manufacturing operations".

Domains 21e6.com and .net and .org all registered around March/April 2013.

[auto2nr1]

Thanks for sharing.

[aerobatic]

I just read this:

21e6

I've mentioned them a couple of times...  no one seemed to comment.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269093.msg3059525;topicseen#msg3059525

[Hiroaki]

It sounds interesting. I would like to know more about their project.
Mysterious new player...

[RoadStress]

I just read this:

21e6

I've mentioned them a couple of times...  no one seemed to comment.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269093.msg3059525;topicseen#msg3059525

Well tell us more.

[aerobatic]

I just read this:

21e6

I've mentioned them a couple of times...  no one seemed to comment.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269093.msg3059525;topicseen#msg3059525

Well tell us more.

if i knew more i would've told more !

all i know is that the founder is a stanford professor with a good reputation - BALAJI SRINIVASAN... and that there's serious money involved.  we know they raised $5m.. but maybe more...

and that they've got a lot of bright people involved.

and that they've been working on it longer than several of the other guys.. so, one would assume that they're keeping it secret.  this is the only 'secret mine' that I've ever heard of.

the big question is... what does $5m buy them?   does it get them enough to design and build their own silicon?  and what silicon will it be?  is it state of the art 28nm, or is it a cheaper, older process node?

heck, with their connections, they could even be trying to go for 20 or 16nm...!?

we don't seem to see any of their miners hashing so presumably they don't have silicon back yet, or maybe it didn't work, or maybe its not good enough.. which is odd, as people who started later than them have already received their silicon or are expecting it within a month or so.

maybe it went wrong?  maybe they got delayed?  its a mystery that such an experienced and well funded team seems to have not (yet) achieved their goals.

[RoadStress]

I just read this:

21e6

I've mentioned them a couple of times...  no one seemed to comment.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269093.msg3059525;topicseen#msg3059525

Well tell us more.

if i knew more i would've told more !

all i know is that the founder is a stanford professor with a good reputation - BALAJI SRINIVASAN... and that there's serious money involved.  we know they raised $5m.. but maybe more...

and that they've got a lot of bright people involved.

and that they've been working on it longer than several of the other guys.. so, one would assume that they're keeping it secret.  this is the only 'secret mine' that I've ever heard of.

the big question is... what does $5m buy them?   does it get them enough to design and build their own silicon?  and what silicon will it be?  is it state of the art 28nm, or is it a cheaper, older process node?

heck, with their connections, they could even be trying to go for 20 or 16nm...!?

we don't seem to see any of their miners hashing so presumably they don't have silicon back yet, or maybe it didn't work, or maybe its not good enough.. which is odd, as people who started later than them have already received their silicon or are expecting it within a month or so.

maybe it went wrong?  maybe they got delayed?  its a mystery that such an experienced and well funded team seems to have not (yet) achieved their goals.

I think 20 or 16nm is way out of discussion. $5m should be enough for a 28nm mask(design included). Where or when did you heard about them and how? Do you know for how long are they working on this project?

[aerobatic]

I think 20 or 16nm is way out of discussion. $5m should be enough for a 28nm mask(design included). Where or when did you heard about them and how? Do you know for how long are they working on this project?

depends if they've raised any more money or not.   for all we know, they started developing an asic that wasn't good enough and then re-started the design with a better asic.

everyone here who said 20 and 16nm is not going to happen til 2015 and 2016 is plain wrong.  it will certainly happen before then.  if there's a compelling reason to use it, it will be used.  i am still betting someone, somewhere will release in 20 or 16nm during 2014 !

Anyway, when and how did i hear about them?   i heard from several sources during the summer.   Heard from investors (like me) and from people who've met them or considered joining them.  everyone knew what they were up to but didn't know any precise details.  And the amount of cash they raised is public record.  But since its a secret mine, and since I'm not involved in any way with them, i really know nothing about where they are on their project...   All we know is they are very smart people, and pretty well financed !

If you want to decide for yourself whether you think Balaji is capable of doing it.. see his recent techcrunch panel here.    I personally think he's exactly the right guy for it... seems very smart, knowledgeable and well connected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl-HZWfxUFw

[RoadStress]

I think 20 or 16nm is way out of discussion. $5m should be enough for a 28nm mask(design included). Where or when did you heard about them and how? Do you know for how long are they working on this project?

depends if they've raised any more money or not.   for all we know, they started developing an asic that wasn't good enough and then re-started the design with a better asic.

everyone here who said 20 and 16nm is not going to happen til 2015 and 2016 is plain wrong.  it will certainly happen before then.  if there's a compelling reason to use it, it will be used.  i am still betting someone, somewhere will release in 20 or 16nm during 2014 !

Anyway, when and how did i hear about them?   i heard from several sources during the summer.   Heard from investors (like me) and from people who've met them or considered joining them.  everyone knew what they were up to but didn't know any precise details.  And the amount of cash they raised is public record.  But since its a secret mine, and since I'm not involved in any way with them, i really know nothing about where they are on their project...   All we know is they are very smart people, and pretty well financed !

If you want to decide for yourself whether you think Balaji is capable of doing it.. see his recent techcrunch panel here.    I personally think he's exactly the right guy for it... seems very smart, knowledgeable and well connected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl-HZWfxUFw

I don't want to start a debate about 20nm and 16nm, but if they already developed an asic and it wasn't good that means they already spent a lot of money from what they raised so that leaves almost no money for lower nm and as long as they have lower than 55nm then i think the more important thing is to have a working product than to have a sub 28nm node.

Why didn't you invest in them if they are so smart and so well financed? From what you are telling me it seems that you made a wrong decision not to invest in them.

[aerobatic]

Why didn't you invest in them if they are so smart and so well financed? From what you are telling me it seems that you made a wrong decision not to invest in them.

its just as well i didn't because they must be late by now, but i found out about them after they'd raised their finance.

[superduh]

it's hitting the saturation point since bitcoins is a "zero sum" game.
meaning that another company takes away from a limited amount of coins.
price of bitcoins has to be much higher to sustain all these companies long term.

there's already 10+ companies maybe 15 involved with asics. the pie is 100% - how much can they each control?

[Flying Hellfish]

it's hitting the saturation point since bitcoins is a "zero sum" game.
meaning that another company takes away from a limited amount of coins.
price of bitcoins has to be much higher to sustain all these companies long term.

there's already 10+ companies maybe 15 involved with asics. the pie is 100% - how much can they each control?

Coins are limited, but customers are not.  Manufactures are not mining coins, they're selling machines.  Their customer base can increase as long as there is enough newbs willing to mine at a BTC loss.  With the increase in BTC price and popularity it seems the pie is increasing quite nicely for the manufacture's.

Moral of the story, hoard, hoarding is the new mining for Joe six pack!

Edit:  Sorry re-read and it looks like you meant self mining manufacture's so in that case ya they can all enjoy the race to the bottom.

[DyslexicZombei]

We need more info.

IMO, they should've raised these funds 3 months ago (then again, with all the new money I'm seeing come in to our industry, many of the principals may have never even heard of BTC 3 months ago).

May be too little/too late.

[aerobatic]

We need more info.

IMO, they should've raised these funds 3 months ago (then again, with all the new money I'm seeing come in to our industry, many of the principals may have never even heard of BTC 3 months ago).

May be too little/too late.

seems like somethings happening... they appointed a new ceo days ago... so maybe they're about to pounce !

http://www.crunchbase.com/person/matthew-pauker

http://valleywag.gawker.com/phase-ii-of-silicon-valleys-secession-plan-suck-up-al-1465367092

I think we should expect to see them mining soon...  they must be coming out of stealth mode if they're giving interviews in business week etc...

Does anyone know anything about their asics?  what spec are they?  What process node are they?  28nm or 40nm or 65nm?

Are they just going to mine themselves (like we think) or are they going to sell anything?

presumably, since they've not engaged with anyone at all that we know of, they're still pursuing the 'secret mine' biz model...!

[Gator-hex]

i am still betting someone, somewhere will release in 20 or 16nm during 2014 !

Not unless you have enough money to build their own fabrication plant  

Any new node will be booked solid for years by the likes of IBM, Intel, AMD, nVidia, Samsung etc. for their own products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

[aerobatic]

i am still betting someone, somewhere will release in 20 or 16nm during 2014 !

Not unless you have enough money to build their own fabrication plant  

Any new node will be booked solid for years by the likes of IBM, Intel, AMD, nVidia, Samsung etc. for their own products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

thats incorrect.  tsmc has said they've done tens of customer tapeouts in 20 and 16nm already!

in several articles, tsmc has said more than 25 customer tape-outs so far and more planned for 2014...

http://wccftech.com/tsmc-begins-volume-production-20nm-chips-q1-2014-16nm-finfet-chips-q1-2015/

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20131022230815_TSMC_Shares_More_Details_Regarding_16nm_FinFET_and_20nm_Progress.html

[aerobatic]

i am still betting someone, somewhere will release in 20 or 16nm during 2014!

Not unless you have enough money to build their own fabrication plant  

Any new node will be booked solid for years by the likes of IBM, Intel, AMD, nVidia, Samsung etc. for their own products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

Still think that, Gator?

[Bargraphics]

i am still betting someone, somewhere will release in 20 or 16nm during 2014 !

Not unless you have enough money to build their own fabrication plant  

Any new node will be booked solid for years by the likes of IBM, Intel, AMD, nVidia, Samsung etc. for their own products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

Still think that, Gator?

It's already a fact

http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-pre-orders-next-asic/

[aerobatic]

i am still betting someone, somewhere will release in 20 or 16nm during 2014 !

Not unless you have enough money to build their own fabrication plant  

Any new node will be booked solid for years by the likes of IBM, Intel, AMD, nVidia, Samsung etc. for their own products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

Still think that, Gator?

It's already a fact

http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-pre-orders-next-asic/

I got my quotes out of sequence. Gator was the one who said it wouldn't happen. I said it would.

[Bargraphics]

i am still betting someone, somewhere will release in 20 or 16nm during 2014 !

Not unless you have enough money to build their own fabrication plant  

Any new node will be booked solid for years by the likes of IBM, Intel, AMD, nVidia, Samsung etc. for their own products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

Still think that, Gator?

It's already a fact

http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-pre-orders-next-asic/

I got my quotes out of sequence. Gator was the one who said it wouldn't happen. I said it would.

Ah makes more sense, gator has been spewing armchair engineer nonsense for a while now.