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Question: Would you pay a voluntary tax to the federal government in order to be left alone?  (Voting closed: December 15, 2013, 10:17:46 PM)
Yes I would volunteer to pay the tax if it were reasonable. - 8 (38.1%)
No I would never volunteer to pay taxes on Bitcoin sales. - 13 (61.9%)
Total Voters: 21

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Author Topic: Should the IRS accept voluntary taxes from Bitcoin users?  (Read 1453 times)
Luckybit
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November 15, 2013, 10:17:46 PM
 #1

Suppose that a solution to the redlisting, whitelisting, blacklisting, is that instead of the government going after everyone on Silk Road or whatever the IRS instead sets up a Bitcoin address saying if you pay your share in taxes to that address that they'll look the other way.

Would you accept paying a voluntary tax to protect yourself from being arrested or having your address blacklisted?

I'm not saying this idea would work I just want to know where the Bitcoin community stands on voluntary taxes. In my opinion if the tax were something reasonable like a sales tax on every black market sale which Silk Road operators could pay to be left alone that in my opinion could resolve at least the drug issue.

I'm of the opinion that drugs should be legal but regulated and taxed. I don't think drug purchases can remain tax free because there is some harm generated to society by drug addiction and rehabs cost money to run. The taxes in my opinion should be used specifically to build rehab centers and not used for anything else.

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ixne
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November 15, 2013, 10:25:16 PM
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Suppose that a solution to the redlisting, whitelisting, blacklisting, is that instead of the government going after everyone on Silk Road or whatever the IRS instead sets up a Bitcoin address saying if you pay your share in taxes to that address that they'll look the other way.

On what planet does paying taxes mean you're allowed to commit crimes?

Just wanted to get that in before you are ripped in 'twain by the local libertarians for suggesting bitcoin users pay tax.
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November 15, 2013, 10:45:07 PM
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Suppose that a solution to the redlisting, whitelisting, blacklisting, is that instead of the government going after everyone on Silk Road or whatever the IRS instead sets up a Bitcoin address saying if you pay your share in taxes to that address that they'll look the other way.

On what planet does paying taxes mean you're allowed to commit crimes?

Just wanted to get that in before you are ripped in 'twain by the local libertarians for suggesting bitcoin users pay tax.

If Bitcoin is private and has to remain private to be fungible but you also want to give the government an incentive not to mess with you then politically you should push for legalizing drugs and then some sort of tax. Perhaps if Silk Road actually gave something back to the Bitcoin community then Silk Road for instance would be more popular and could gain political influence.

Taxes, donations and other stuff like this could take so called dirty money and make it clean by turning something potentially harmful into something potentially helpful for a community. It's not really about crime and punishment and shouldn't be. It should be about protecting a community and not every community agrees on what should be a crime or on what the punishment should be.

The Bitcoin community is global, it's not located in Washington DC.
Rupture
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November 15, 2013, 10:47:41 PM
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Who the hell volunteers to pay taxes?
Luckybit
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November 15, 2013, 10:54:47 PM
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Who the hell volunteers to pay taxes?
http://norml.org/legal/tax-stamps

It wouldn't be too difficult. Honestly the idea of voluntary taxes isn't such a bad thing. It's a possible way forward and a way to gain political influence in the Bitcoin community. It's also a case for fungibility.

If Silk Road could for instance donate money to feeding the homeless, or pay some sort of tax to get community support it makes sense. It's how it always has worked since the beginning even in the underworld with the black hand and protection rackets. Money always finds a way to filter from dirty to clean.

The problem is if Bitcoins are not fungible or if there are taint lists, or if it's a list which is implemented wrong, then this process might not be possible. The other problem is if it's done without the government involved it's called money laundering but if it's taxed then the government considers it legitimate business.

So we should in my opinion be pushing to get drugs legalized and taxed. Isn't that the whole point of Silk Road? To help make a case for ending the drug war or do I have it wrong?
NewLiberty
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November 16, 2013, 11:17:06 AM
 #6

US and many countries along with them are in the tobacco, lottery, alcohol and gasoline business by putting tax on these in addition to other taxes that already apply to it.
Special taxes put the government in the business.  Capital gains should be more than enough.

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ixne
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November 16, 2013, 11:46:51 AM
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If Bitcoin is private and has to remain private to be fungible but you also want to give the government an incentive not to mess with you then politically you should push for legalizing drugs and then some sort of tax. Perhaps if Silk Road actually gave something back to the Bitcoin community then Silk Road for instance would be more popular and could gain political influence.

If you want to understand why this is a terribly naive idea, imagine Mexican drug cartels sending lobbyists to Washington with boatloads of cash to "gain political influence" in the enforcement of drug legislation on their US-based distribution networks.

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Taxes, donations and other stuff like this could take so called dirty money and make it clean by turning something potentially harmful into something potentially helpful for a community.

Dirty money doesn't suddenly become ok because you did something good with it. A pet peeve of mine is when people gloss over the incredible difficulty of applying subjective judgement to broad policy decisions - who decides what is dirty, and who decides what action is "good" enough to ethically launder money?

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It's not really about crime and punishment and shouldn't be. It should be about protecting a community and not every community agrees on what should be a crime or on what the punishment should be.

The bitcoin "community" doesn't write or enforce laws, nor should it. There's a protocol that you can participate in or not participate in, and there's people you trust and people you don't. You're right that "not every community agrees on what should be a crime," and again I fail to see how the bitcoin community would agree on what money is "dirty," let alone the much more difficult problem of collecting taxes.

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The Bitcoin community is global, it's not located in Washington DC.

...so why are you asking a "global" community to placate the IRS and US government with money?

Bottom line: None of your arguments are specific to bitcoin, this is really an argument about legalizing the illegal. If you replace bitcoin with "cash" and use the same arguments I think you'll see how silly some of these presumptions are. If you want to legalize something specific that's illegal, form a specific group and start lobbying. Asking the entire bitcoin community to pay money to try and make basically everything legal is unrealistic on multiple levels.
Mike Christ
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November 16, 2013, 10:40:30 PM
 #8

Upon understanding where the vast majority of my tax money actually goes to, i.e. debt interest, SS & welfare, invasions, I really don't see the point in giving them any more money than what I have to; I'm never seeing it again.

Hey, isn't voluntary taxation an oxymoron?

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November 16, 2013, 11:20:04 PM
 #9



On what planet does paying taxes mean you're allowed to commit crimes?


Earth . .

If you pay enough!
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