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Author Topic: Your opinion on Botnet Mining.  (Read 1699 times)
MiddleMan
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August 02, 2011, 02:37:28 AM
 #1

Hello Bitcoin community! Since I'm new here, I want to ask as many questions as I can (just to get a feel on what is flowing). So my question today is; Your opinion on Botnet Mining.

Now I know that Botnet Mining can be a bit unfair, but isn't it good for the Bitcoin Economy? When they generate Bitcoin(s) they usually spend the Bitcoin(s).

I do know people who Botnet Mine on their own private pools, and I see no harm that they are doing with this.

/discuss

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nafai
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August 02, 2011, 02:39:23 AM
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It depends on what you mean by botnet mining.  If a person is using an army of computers (that they own or legally control), I see no problem with it. If a person is using an army of computers (that belongs to someone else, without their permission or knowledge), then that is unethical and technically stealing (electricity, wear and tear on the cpus/gpus, system resources, etc)

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MiddleMan
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August 02, 2011, 02:43:32 AM
 #3

Hello Nafai,

I totally understand were you are getting at. I was referring to the army of computer's they don't own. Wouldn't the "victims" be able to remove the miner at any time though?

NothinG
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August 02, 2011, 02:43:56 AM
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If you're talking about Zombie Mining:
1) It's sort of illegal.
2) You can only mine by CPU (unless you had code to detect the GPU)
3) They would notice their fans at high speed (or their graphics cards getting really hot)
4) The price you get wouldn't be worth it. Zombies only last a month at the most (even if you have high dollar encryption).

MiddleMan
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August 02, 2011, 02:47:00 AM
 #5

The friends I know have scripts that use CPU and GPU. It's very advanced, if it can't find GPU it uses very little CPU (to prevent fan). It even detects nvidia!

It's come to the point were I think everybody will start Botnet Mining.
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August 02, 2011, 02:52:34 AM
 #6

The friends I know have scripts that use CPU and GPU. It's very advanced, if it can't find GPU it uses very little CPU (to prevent fan). It even detects nvidia!

It's come to the point were I think everybody will start Botnet Mining.
There was a huge flux of botnets that crowded BTC Guild when i first joined.
It just drove up the difficulty.
(inb4 people with interest drove up the difficulty).

nafai
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August 02, 2011, 03:00:26 AM
 #7

Quote
I was referring to the army of computer's they don't own.
Quote
I do know people who Botnet Mine on their own private pools, and I see no harm that they are doing with this.

You're talking about people using other people's computer resources without their permission, and you see no harm in it?  Is it okay to use someone's car without their permission?  Why or why not?  The same answers would apply to botnet/zombie mining.

It's not okay to use someone's car without their permission, because it uses up their gasoline and causes wear and tear on their tires, transmission, etc.
(It's not okay to zombie mine without permission, because it uses their electricity and causes wear and tear on their power supply, cpu, etc)

It's not okay to use someone's car without their permission, because there is the possibility that you could wreck it.
(It's not okay to zombie mine without permission, because there is the possibility you could overheat it and wreck it) -- you don't know whether they keep their computer clean, it might be filthy and clogged with lint but never overheats normally because they only use it for email/web browsing

It's not okay to use someone's car without permission, because they can't use it while you are and so you're depriving them of the use of it.
(It's not okay to zombie mine without permission, because it uses system resources even if only a small percentage, that is still system resources they can't use themselves, if they try to play video games or do video editing or cad or other high-intensive activity, it will not function to the level of performance it should

See where I'm going with this?

Now, that's not to see it's a HUGE crime if done in small amount, but it is still not right/ethical -- like you can use somebody else's dumpster and does it really harm them? But it's still illegal (theft of services), they paid for the dumpster, now there's your trash in it and maybe there's not enough room for all the trash they were gonna put in it

But the really bad/wrong/evil/illegal/unethical part comes when you multiply it out.  Using somebody else's dumpster one time, although not the "right" thing to do, you may not consider a big deal, but if you do it every day, and start using everybody else's dumpster in the city for your massive amounts of trash, well now you're starting to be VERY unethical

When people talk about botnets / zombie mining, they're not talking about using 1 person's computer without their permission.  They're always talking about using multiple, sometimes hundreds or even THOUSANDS of other people computer's without their permission...   Now you're talking about bring seriously bad karma your way...  Definitely a NOT COOL move, dude

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MiddleMan
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August 02, 2011, 03:03:16 AM
 #8

Hello Nafai,

You make an excellent point here, it still helps the Bitcoin economy, half the people don't even care/know about Botnet Mining. I never said I do Botnet Mine, I was just asking people their opinion on it.
nafai
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August 02, 2011, 03:09:10 AM
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Yeah, it helps the bitcoin economy, but that is beside the point.  And I didn't accuse you of botnet mining, I was just giving my opinion on it.  A scummy thing to do Smiley  Like using someone else's dumpster that they pay for, but x1000 or more (more because dumpster are just big hunks of metal, computers are delicate and can "break" much easier)

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luciferxe
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August 02, 2011, 03:12:03 AM
 #10

iMiddleMan?

http://www.hackforums.net/member.php?action=profile&uid=722140

Is this you?
MiddleMan
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August 02, 2011, 03:12:38 AM
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Uh, no it isn't me.

luciferxe
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August 02, 2011, 03:15:17 AM
 #12

Ok.

Just a coincidence of the names and talk of botnets. Especially when they have such scripts for sale in the market place there.
NothinG
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August 02, 2011, 03:26:25 AM
 #13

And this is where I leave this conversation  Roll Eyes

luciferxe
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August 02, 2011, 03:32:56 AM
 #14

Just to point out. He left the forums(offline) after I made this judgement call.

Personally MiddleMan. I do not trust you. It is too much of a coincidence to me.

If anyone has talked to him outside of the forums. Please make a backup of your wallets. As the site I believe he/she is from. Happens to be where one of the trojans that steals wallets comes from.
NothinG
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August 02, 2011, 03:37:56 AM
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Just to point out. He left the forums(offline) after I made this judgement call.

Personally MiddleMan. I do not trust you. It is too much of a coincidence to me.

If anyone has talked to him outside of the forums. Please make a backup of your wallets. As the site I believe he/she is from. Happens to be where one of the trojans that steals wallets comes from.
Your kidding right?
What if I was one of the people who steals wallets?
It wouldn't be hard to code up a PC scanner to detect wallet.dat file, upload it to some off-shore FTP service.

Backing up your wallet.dat doesn't do anything if you didn't know someone took it.
It's more of a race to see who sends the money to another wallet first.

Ono Nadagin
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August 02, 2011, 03:55:01 AM
 #16

You are suggesting that being a thief is OK and that possibly ruining someones GPU is not a bad thing...

Grow the F up and stop thinking like a criminal.

Having said that I hope someone 'borrows' your car tonight and robs a bank and then crashes it leaving you holding the bag.,... as hey you didnt know they were going to do it so that makes it ok by your logic....

 Cry
tomkandy
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August 03, 2011, 09:24:17 PM
 #17

Mining bitcoins would be a complete waste of time on a botnet, compared to DDOSing people for extortion purposes or spamming.
Not Drinking The Kool-Aid
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August 04, 2011, 12:08:32 AM
 #18

It is inevitable. Talk all you like about good and bad, but it's going to happen anyway, because there is no authority interested in regulating BitCoin. Welcome to the law of unintended consequences in your decentralized peer to peer digital crypto-currency.

"If you kill me you will not easily find another like me...a sort of gadfly, given to the state by the God."
luciferxe
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August 04, 2011, 12:15:02 AM
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It is inevitable. Talk all you like about good and bad, but it's going to happen anyway, because there is no authority interested in regulating BitCoin. Welcome to the law of unintended consequences in your decentralized peer to peer digital crypto-currency.

This may be true for bitcoins. But governments do care about illegaly accessing anothers computer.
tasarz
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August 04, 2011, 12:18:54 AM
 #20

Botnet mining is wrong because all botnets are wrong.  There's not much more to it than that- in what world is it all right to illegally take advantage of someone else's property and use it for your own purposes?
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