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Question: Should the government create their own chain?
Yes
No it's good how it is
Bitcoin as main currency
USDt as main currency
Other coin/token as main currency. please explain in comments which one

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Author Topic: My vision about the blockchain and why government should use it [J-S] + POLL  (Read 52 times)
J-S
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April 20, 2018, 07:25:44 PM
 #1

Hopefully this is in the right section, this is my second post but I am a believer of the blockchain since the first day I heard of it (2013). I read a lot and want to share my vision about the blockchain with you. I have sooo much ideas about how it could and should be used and how to make the world a better place by using blockchain.

Discussions
You all know the discussions with people that tell you that bitcoins and altcoins are only used by criminals, it is not safe because it is not backed by the government, the prices are unstable et cetera.  
The first thing that I tell them, that if everyone should use the blockchain the world will be a better place.

Tackle arguments
But first I have to tackle their arguments:
• The money in their pockets is used also by criminals.
• We are just in the beginning, we need regulation and banks where we can store our cryptocurrency if you want to be safe. But the security of your wallet is safe enough, otherwise the private keys of the biggest holders of bitcoin where already been hacked/cracked.
If you lose your wallet with 500 dollar, you will not see it back. If you lose your password of your wallet it is the same. IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT.  
• What unstable? Usdt is very stable.

Bitcoin as a currency?
For me a currency is the coin/token where I buy my groceries with in the supermarket. So at this moment I don't see a cryptocoin/token as a currency.

In my opinion Bitcoin is not like the usd and euro and it was never the goal to be an alternative for the usd or euro. But bitcoin is the way to enter the cryptocoins/tokens world and today it is a way to transfer high amounts of money/value in the cryptocurrency world.

To buy other cryptocoins/tokens we had to buy btc first and then trade them. Nowadays there are also other ways and to buy altcoins etc. But in my country there are only bitcoin atm's in some stores. So at this moment I only see btc as an option to enter offline the cryptocurrency market. It is already changed online, you can buy altcoins also directly with your euro's or dollars.

We need something else
At this moment it is unknown what the total amount of money is, it is unknown how much money is printed and it is unknown how much money will be created.   Besides that we have a lot of fake money.

But that isn't normal right? People can create new money if they want... We are working very hard for something that other people can create in a few seconds. But we can do it also..... with the right printers and skills.

And that is why I like the blockchain so much. We can't create more, we can't print more. Everyone knows how much money there is and if everyone needs it or uses it to trade with it will create value.

What coin as currency?
I think that there are 2 options.

• The governments are going to create something similar as the USDt and we can switch from USD to USDt.
• We are going to do it all by ourselves and convert our dollars to BTC/USDt/ETH etc. and one coin/token will be used as a currency

BTW What I am questioning myself > USDt is backed by USD. But what if almost all people are going to convert USD to USDT, then tether will be a baghodler of usd forever Roll Eyes

My vision for a new currency
So I think that we need our government to create a digital USD, digital Euro etc. Just like we did with the euro. In for example a maximum of 5 years you can trade all your dollars for digital dollars, just 1:1. BUT NOW After these years the total supply will be locked. The government can give everyone a wallet. You just have to give the government "access to read transactions" and the rest can be anonymous. We need a solution that you can send something to a person and that the address that will be created is different for everyone and depends on the sender. So your employer will send every time to the same address, but when you pay at the bakery your address will be different. And when your employer pays your colleague both addresses will be always the same but the addresses are on both sides unique.

So the addresses will be unique and created for both and every time you send something between the same persons/organisations both addresses stay the same. But no one else will know these addresses. So other people can't see how much you earn etc.

Now it will also be very easy to check how much money you earned by or spend to that person or company. You have to give the government "read only" access. Taxes could be done automatically then. But the most important the government can follow the money.

Besides that I think that it is really important for large amounts of money that the private keys are stored at banks. We also don't know the code of the safe in the banks. We need a bankpass with password to access and send transactions, just like we do nowadays. For smaller amounts we can use other wallets, just like you have your wallet with some bills. If you lose them it is not the end of your life. I have a lot of thoughts about that also, but will that share later if people like this.

Value
One thing I always found weird.
Why does gold have value? because a lot of people want it and it is a rare metal.
Why does a Picasso have value? because a lot of people want it and it is very rare.
Why does a Ferrari 250 GTO have value? Because it is the most amazing car ever build and everyone wants to drive that but it is so rare.
Why does euro/dollar have value? because with that bills you can buy everything, but the supply is not limited  Huh Shocked

USD was backed by gold. Because in the beginning we used gold to trade with. But Richard Nixon stopped with it. He was the first that created money that was not backed by gold. We have to believe that all the gold is real, but do you believe that? Also when everything is real roughly 4,5% of all money is backed by gold. The rest.......

We believe that it is better to regulate it by ourselves, to create value out of nothing.

And that is exactly what people also say about bitcoin, and why they don't believe in Bitcoin. "Those bitcoins are just some 01010 and are backed by nothing. Where is the value?"

We can say that bitcoin is rare, only 21 000 000 bitcoins will be ever on earth. So it is rare. It is not just created out of nothing, it is mined. We invested money to pay electricity, we paid for computers and graphic cards. Why isn't that similar to pay miners/slaves?

But to increase in value we need demand.
And that is happening now and I think it will increase lots and lots if the government is not going to create their own chain/token/coin.

Why should the government create their own chain
At this moment we see a lot of problems in my country. People in the government stole money, schools don't use the money where it belongs for, big parties are given with money from the government etc.

All above reasons are important, but the whole chain could bring so much for the whole country. Because it is already a very long story I think I will see a lot of TL;DR comments I made a picture about what I want to tell.

https://preview.ibb.co/gNEpj7/Follow_our_money.png

Image is big (10mb) https://image.ibb.co/nu1DBn/Follow_our_money.png

When the government creates its own chain they can follow where all the money will end. It is pictured as an really easy to understand example with the police, hospital, firefighters etc. When the police needs a new car, they will tell it to the local government and the local government will tell it to government. When the government decides to give the police more money to buy police cars, they could trace everything back very easy, when using the solution I described earlier.

When a company asks for subsidy to restore an old castle and the governments give it, they can now see that the money ends at a bike store, a boat store and a vacation and not at a company that restores castles.

It will be so easy as a government to follow the money to a certain hight that is important. Offcourse you can disable some expenses or you can buy tokens that are anonymous. It is not that you will lose your privacy. But I think that this is the only way to fight corruption and that it will be easier to get the money where it belongs.

If you like this I want to visualize it better, also the way taxes could be implemented and share a lot of visions from me.

Best regards,
J-S
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April 20, 2018, 08:18:02 PM
 #2

Governments are the most corrupt entities in the world so they need it the most but if they resist the technology, blockchain itself csn disrupt governments.

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April 20, 2018, 08:41:36 PM
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I guess you putted a lot of effort in writing this, and I can say that I agree with you on some points and on some I don't. Generally speaking world is already accepting Blockchain, but there are some obstacles that needs to be dealt with first. And for that time is needed.

So I think that we need our government to create a digital USD, digital Euro etc.
We don't need that, because paying with your pay cards is similar to paying with digital currency. I see no need for digital USD or Euro. At the end everything would go true banks like it already do. That is why blockchain is good, it doesn't need middle man for transactions and confirmation.

Also, your whole "My vision for a new currency" is something I can't agree with you.

Besides that I think that it is really important for large amounts of money that the private keys are stored at banks. We also don't know the code of the safe in the banks. We need a bankpass with password to access and send transactions, just like we do nowadays. For smaller amounts we can use other wallets, just like you have your wallet with some bills.

I repeat, Blockchain technology was created so that we could avoid banks and their way of doing business, also with blockchain everything is public, which is good if you ask me. Also, why would people pay banks to store their large amounts of money, when they can create another wallet (but even that is not needed).

I have feeling that you point of view is strongly affected by way of how fiat currencies work, but maybe I'm just seeing it wrong. Maybe my view of things is affected by how much I don't like banks, and your point of view is better. Also, I guess your way of thinking is better than mine for banks , so I guess we could say that your ideas are more realistic than mine.

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April 20, 2018, 11:19:34 PM
 #4

@Eternu nsasuiteb thank you very much for your reply
Governments are the most corrupt entities in the world so they need it the most but if they resist the technology, blockchain itself csn disrupt governments.

Exactly, I really hope that they will do it, because otherwise I am scared we are going to life in an anarchy. But don't you think we can fight corruption in the government when everything is more transparent? Inside the government people can check the money. Let it double check. People in the government can check each other much better if they are able to follow the money.


@Eternu thank you very much for your reply. I appreciate that you spend time to read everything and reply.
Quote
We don't need that, because paying with your pay cards is similar to paying with digital currency. I see no need for digital USD or Euro. At the end everything would go true banks like it already do. That is why blockchain is good, it doesn't need middle man for transactions and confirmation.

It is not about the middleman, I totally agree with you about that. For me it is really important that we everyone is going to pay taxes. We don't like that, but we need that.

Every year the government makes a budget to spend at: defense, police, schools, infrastructure etc. etc.

If everything is anonymous/untraceable then nobody is going to pay taxes anymore and that will lead to big problems. We need to pay the government to build infrastructure and schools etc.

Quote
I repeat, Blockchain technology was created so that we could avoid banks and their way of doing business, also with blockchain everything is public, which is good if you ask me. Also, why would people pay banks to store their large amounts of money, when they can create another wallet (but even that is not needed).

I agree we can avoid banks if we want. But would you risk that? I am talking about large amounts of money. So life savings et cetera. A lot of people have their money in dollars on the bank and not in bills in safes inside their house. Why would you store a ledger with 200k inside your house?

What if your house will be burned, everything is gone. Your savings everything. That is why we need banks in my opinion, just like now. To store large amounts of money.

Quote
I have feeling that you point of view is strongly affected by way of how fiat currencies work, but maybe I'm just seeing it wrong. Maybe my view of things is affected by how much I don't like banks, and your point of view is better. Also, I guess your way of thinking is better than mine for banks , so I guess we could say that your ideas are more realistic than mine.

Banks are in my opinion just a big safe to store a lot of money and gold and other valuable items, with good securities. And they bring supply and demand of money together. So if you want to receive some interest, you lend another client of the bank some money. They have to investigate that it is a good person, that you will get your money back with some interest and they are the middleman and will earn a commission.

The problem why you hate banks is because they did things that are not normal, for example fractional reserve banking. And because of things like that I totally agree with your opinion about banks.

I am trying as hard as possible to think about the basics. What is money, why do we use paper money, why does something has value, why are we using banks and then compare it with the reality. After that you will come to the conclusion that a lot of things are very weird.

P.s. I hope that quotes are working well because I didn't figure it out really well.
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April 28, 2018, 10:08:24 AM
 #5

Ok, you've lost me at this :

Quote
We need a solution that you can send something to a person and that the address that will be created is different for everyone and depends on the sender. So your employer will send every time to the same address, but when you pay at the bakery your address will be different. And when your employer pays your colleague both addresses will be always the same but the addresses are on both sides unique.

So the addresses will be unique and created for both and every time you send something between the same persons/organisations both addresses stay the same. But no one else will know these addresses. So other people can't see how much you earn etc.

So, you have a wallet ..given by the government....
Quote
The government can give everyone a wallet.

and you speak of anonymity?

If the government is generating the seed for you, they've already have all your addresses linked to your id.
So the anonymity is lost from he start.

Again, you say that people can't know how much you've earned when you get paid, well nothing changes from the current situation, your employer knows it, the one making the payments knows that, the friends you blab about know...

And to add to the confusion, you're making a 180 turn right in the next paragraph.

Quote
Now it will also be very easy to check how much money you earned by or spend to that person or company. You have to give the government "read only" access. Taxes could be done automatically then. But the most important the government can follow the money.

Honestly, what the point of all this?

And the nail in the coffin:
Quote
Besides that I think that it is really important for large amounts of money that the private keys are stored at banks.

Remember Cyprus?


Quote
I agree we can avoid banks if we want. But would you risk that? I am talking about large amounts of money. So life savings et cetera. A lot of people have their money in dollars on the bank and not in bills in safes inside their house. Why would you store a ledger with 200k inside your house?

What if your house will be burned, everything is gone. Your savings everything. That is why we need banks in my opinion, just like now. To store large amounts of money.

Unlike cash, you can make a hundred copies of your privkeys or seed.
And unlike cash you can store them in pairs so even if the thief manage to steal one, they must get their hands on the other one, or ones as you can make 24 places to hide each word in your trezor and even if they do get their hands on those, your seed is still protected by math, as they need to find the right order.



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April 28, 2018, 05:14:14 PM
 #6

I support Bitcoin/blockchain even if the price is down and governments are warning citizens not to invest in crypto because I am impressed with the core philosophy of it and it is happening for the first time in the history of mankind that we are able to trust an unknown group of people more than the familiar faces. I believe that this technology has a huge potential to optimize the global lifestyle that will help everyone but we need to look at it from a broad perspective.

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April 28, 2018, 06:38:48 PM
 #7

This blockchain innovation will make the management of a decentralized, permanent, practical, and secure biological account system.
In addition blockchain is helpful to increase the speed, efficiency, and cost of the state remittance corridors and will drastically reduce the time of payment between countries.
The vision goal describes the scale to create a fully decentralized economy, which will include digital stock trading, fiat currency, cryptocurrency, options directly to each other, without additional steps through the traditional banking system.
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