How much of a bubble is this?

[Coinseeker]

As a few smart people have wisely pointed out, people are not buying Bitcoins to spend them.  I mean, how stupid do you have to be to believe that.  Let's look at it:

Scenario A:

Mary wants to buy a new TV.  That TV costs $500.  She goes to her favorite online store, types in her debit card number and her debit card is charged. TV arrives in about a week.

Total Cost:  $500
Total Time:  ~ 1 week

Scenario B:

Mary wants to buy a new TV.  That TV costs $500.  Mary also heard the hype on a new technology called Bitcoin and figured this is the best payment method for her.  So, Mary goes on Coinbase and purchases $500 worth of Bitcoin and pays 1%.  Then she waits a week.  When the Bitcoin's finally arrive, she goes to her favorite online store, only to find that they don't accept Bitcoin.  

Scenario C:

But lets assume her favorite store does take Bitcoin.    Mary wants to buy a new TV.  That TV costs $500.  Mary also heard the hype on a new technology called Bitcoin and figured this is the best payment method for her.  So, Mary goes on Coinbase and purchases $500 worth of Bitcoin and pays 1%.  Then she waits a week to get her Bitcoins.  And it's a good thing because it will take Mary at least that to figure out how to safely store her new Bitcoins and download the blockchain.  Or, maybe she just stores them on Coinbase, which is the ideal way to store Bitcoins anyway.    When the Bitcoin's finally arrive, she goes to her favorite online store, pays for the TV with her $500 worth of Bitcoins and the TV arrives in about a week.

Total Cost:  $505
Total Time:  ~ 2 weeks

Moral of the story.  GET REAL!  There is no Bitcoin "adoption" because there is almost nothing to adopt.  You can barely use them.  Cash and debit cards are FAR superior to Bitcoin's, as it relates to making everyday transactions. The day may come where this is no longer true, but that day is not today, nor any day during this bubble inflation.  The is pure speculative buying.  People are simply looking to get a high ROI.  If you believe anything contrary to that, you are delusional and I would NEVER take advice from you because you simply do not live in reality.

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[djalexr]

I totally believe that 99% of the bitcoin buyers are like this, does anyone really believe that all the people buying BTC through exchanges and forcing the price up are doing so because they want to spend it - really, how, where.

It does seem to me that the vast majority of money flowing into bitcoin right now is not to be spent on the current selection of good and services.

However...how much does day to day spending using as a currency/the bitcoin economy etc. REALLY matter?

The parallel between bitcoin and gold is often drawn. Nobody buys gold to spend it on a coffee. It has value despite the fact you can't use it to buy things off Amazon...so perhaps although bitcoin is technologically capable to be used as a day to day currency (with quite a bit of  additional infrastructure development and merchant acceptance) it may warrant a high value even if it is not being used in this way.

[wobber]

This bubble keep inflating and inflating. I wonder how it will pop. Oh, I know. Hard and violent!

[Spaceman_Spiff]

As a few smart people have wisely pointed out, people are not buying Bitcoins to spend them.  I mean, how stupid do you have to be to believe that.  Let's look at it:

Mary wants to buy a new TV.
<snip>

Mary has some savings.  She can put them on the bank, and earn less than inflation, or she can put them in bitcoin, losing 1% one-time.
After a few years, Mary decides she wants to buy a TV.  In a freak occurrence, in contrasts to all previous years, bitcoin didn't return massive gains, but gained only a few percent to compensate for inflation.  Mary happily buys the TV with her bitcoin.  She then decides to receive her future paychecks in bitcoin, negating the conversion fees.

[kireinaha]

You guys fail to see the real value of Bitcoin and why is rissing so fast.

Right now is a fantastic long term Store of Value, the currency side will start to grow in use after the price is more stable in a few years.

A currency that fluctuates anywhere from 10% to 80% in one day is a horrible store of value. It`s far too voiltile now to have any confidence in future valuations. In order for it to stabilize, people need to actually use it to purchase goods and services, not just speculate. I just don`t see the need for people to convert their fiat to bitcoin, costing them fees, so they can buy Subway sandwiches.

Nobody who has held for 18 months or more has taken a loss.

I`m sure a beanie baby collector in 1996 would have said the same thing. 

Right, because beanies babies are useful, like a censorship resistant digital currency with a hard supply limit and bounded inflation.

Hey, people took their beanie babies seriously back in the day I expect that in a few years, the word "bitcoin" will be in the same league as beanie babies, as a failed investment vehicle that people latched onto in hopes of a huge ROI that fizzled out. I don`t think bitcoins will go away entirely, and they very welll could be used for similar utility as today (ie. engaging in illegal online activities such as drugs and crimes against children). There will be online articles about how people paid $500 for one "coin", believing that it was the dawn of a new era, but eventually people realized that there was no good reason to obtain them, and many people lost their shirts as a result when values fell back down to a few dollars per coin. People will wonder... what the hell were they thinking?

[revans]

As a few smart people have wisely pointed out, people are not buying Bitcoins to spend them.  I mean, how stupid do you have to be to believe that.  Let's look at it:

Mary wants to buy a new TV.
<snip>

Mary has some savings.  She can put them on the bank, and earn less than inflation, or she can put them in bitcoin, losing 1% one-time.
After a few years, Mary decides she wants to buy a TV.  In a freak occurrence, in contrasts to all previous years, bitcoin didn't return massive gains, but gained only a few percent to compensate for inflation.  Mary happily buys the TV with her bitcoin.  She then decides to receive her future paychecks in bitcoin, negating the conversion fees.

And what happens if when she wants to buy her TV the value of Bitcoins have crashed such that the same coins can now only buy her a pocket radio?

[bassclef]

Moral of the story.  GET REAL!  There is no Bitcoin "adoption" because there is almost nothing to adopt.  You can barely use them.  Cash and debit cards are FAR superior to Bitcoin's, as it relates to making everyday transactions. The day may come where this is no longer true, but that day is not today, nor any day during this bubble inflation.  The is pure speculative buying.  People are simply looking to get a high ROI.  If you believe anything contrary to that, you are delusional and I would NEVER take advice from you because you simply do not live in reality.

Says the guy with incorrect grammar and whose ignore button glows ever brighter

[wearepoor]

As a few smart people have wisely pointed out, people are not buying Bitcoins to spend them.  I mean, how stupid do you have to be to believe that.  Let's look at it:

Mary wants to buy a new TV.
<snip>

Mary has some savings.  She can put them on the bank, and earn less than inflation, or she can put them in bitcoin, losing 1% one-time.
After a few years, Mary decides she wants to buy a TV.  In a freak occurrence, in contrasts to all previous years, bitcoin didn't return massive gains, but gained only a few percent to compensate for inflation.  Mary happily buys the TV with her bitcoin.  She then decides to receive her future paychecks in bitcoin, negating the conversion fees.

And what happens if when she wants to buy her TV the value of Bitcoins have crashed such that the same coins can now only buy her a pocket radio?

Better pocket radio than nothing.
No seriously, Bitcoin is risky investment as some stocks are

[Anon136]

at the end of the day, if you want to know what bitcoins true ultimate number one utility is, the one utility that makes it so that even if it had not one single other use case than it would still be valuable, this news article makes it pretty obvious.

http://autos.aol.com/article/gold-bars-hidden-car/

THIS is why bitcoin changes everything.

[samurai1200]

at the end of the day, if you want to know what bitcoins true ultimate number one utility is, the one utility that makes it so that even if it had not one single other use case than it would still be valuable, this news article makes it pretty obvious.

http://autos.aol.com/article/gold-bars-hidden-car/

THIS is why bitcoin changes everything.

+1 and also because this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX0fIi3H-es

[mb300sd]

As a few smart people have wisely pointed out, people are not buying Bitcoins to spend them.  I mean, how stupid do you have to be to believe that.  Let's look at it:

Scenario A:

Mary wants to buy a new TV.  That TV costs $500.  She goes to her favorite online store, types in her debit card number and her debit card is charged. TV arrives in about a week.

Total Cost:  $500
Total Time:  ~ 1 week

Scenario B:

Mary wants to buy a new TV.  That TV costs $500.  Mary also heard the hype on a new technology called Bitcoin and figured this is the best payment method for her.  So, Mary goes on Coinbase and purchases $500 worth of Bitcoin and pays 1%.  Then she waits a week.  When the Bitcoin's finally arrive, she goes to her favorite online store, only to find that they don't accept Bitcoin.   

Scenario C:

But lets assume her favorite store does take Bitcoin.    Mary wants to buy a new TV.  That TV costs $500.  Mary also heard the hype on a new technology called Bitcoin and figured this is the best payment method for her.  So, Mary goes on Coinbase and purchases $500 worth of Bitcoin and pays 1%.  Then she waits a week to get her Bitcoins.  And it's a good thing because it will take Mary at least that to figure out how to safely store her new Bitcoins and download the blockchain.  Or, maybe she just stores them on Coinbase, which is the ideal way to store Bitcoins anyway.     When the Bitcoin's finally arrive, she goes to her favorite online store, pays for the TV with her $500 worth of Bitcoins and the TV arrives in about a week.

Total Cost:  $505
Total Time:  ~ 2 weeks

Moral of the story.  GET REAL!  There is no Bitcoin "adoption" because there is almost nothing to adopt.  You can barely use them.  Cash and debit cards are FAR superior to Bitcoin's, as it relates to making everyday transactions. The day may come where this is no longer true, but that day is not today, nor any day during this bubble inflation.  The is pure speculative buying.  People are simply looking to get a high ROI.  If you believe anything contrary to that, you are delusional and I would NEVER take advice from you because you simply do not live in reality.

You leave out...

During those 2 weeks, bitcoin appreciates 20%

Total cost: $505
Time: 2 weeks
Left with $100 in extra bitcoins.

[Coinseeker]

You leave out...

During those 2 weeks, bitcoin appreciates 20%

Total cost: $505
Time: 2 weeks
Left with $100 in extra bitcoins.

Or depreciate 20%.   

[31337157]

Or depreciate 20%.   

Coinseeker, your example is completely invalid considering "Mary" could purchase 10 btc INSTANTLY using Coinbase. Mary could purchase her TV and refurnish most of her home with that 10 btc if she wanted to.

Coinbase has always had the instant buy option, did you just happen to forget that for a better argument? You do have a point in the current state that BTC is in, but you're comparing a young, developing, 4 year old BTC system to the financial system that has taken 100+ years to build. Of course BTC is not going to be there 100% yet. GET REAL

[freebird]

As a few smart people have wisely pointed out, people are not buying Bitcoins to spend them.  I mean, how stupid do you have to be to believe that.  Let's look at it:

Scenario A:

Mary wants to buy a new TV.  That TV costs $500.  She goes to her favorite online store, types in her debit card number and her debit card is charged. TV arrives in about a week.

Total Cost:  $500
Total Time:  ~ 1 week

Scenario B:

Mary wants to buy a new TV.  That TV costs $500.  Mary also heard the hype on a new technology called Bitcoin and figured this is the best payment method for her.  So, Mary goes on Coinbase and purchases $500 worth of Bitcoin and pays 1%.  Then she waits a week.  When the Bitcoin's finally arrive, she goes to her favorite online store, only to find that they don't accept Bitcoin.  

Scenario C:

But lets assume her favorite store does take Bitcoin.    Mary wants to buy a new TV.  That TV costs $500.  Mary also heard the hype on a new technology called Bitcoin and figured this is the best payment method for her.  So, Mary goes on Coinbase and purchases $500 worth of Bitcoin and pays 1%.  Then she waits a week to get her Bitcoins.  And it's a good thing because it will take Mary at least that to figure out how to safely store her new Bitcoins and download the blockchain.  Or, maybe she just stores them on Coinbase, which is the ideal way to store Bitcoins anyway.    When the Bitcoin's finally arrive, she goes to her favorite online store, pays for the TV with her $500 worth of Bitcoins and the TV arrives in about a week.

Total Cost:  $505
Total Time:  ~ 2 weeks

Moral of the story.  GET REAL!  There is no Bitcoin "adoption" because there is almost nothing to adopt.  You can barely use them.  Cash and debit cards are FAR superior to Bitcoin's, as it relates to making everyday transactions. The day may come where this is no longer true, but that day is not today, nor any day during this bubble inflation.  The is pure speculative buying.  People are simply looking to get a high ROI.  If you believe anything contrary to that, you are delusional and I would NEVER take advice from you because you simply do not live in reality.

What about for making payments and money transfers abroad? Banks charge very high fees for wire transfers. There are also high fees if you use Western Union. And with both of those methods, there is usually a significant delay before the recipient gets their money. With bitcoin, you can transfer money instantaneously and with only a tiny fee or no fee at all.

Also, the reason there is not much commerce yet using bitcoin is because it's still in the phase of being used as a high-growth investment vehicle. That phase isn't going to last forever. The growth rate will gradually decrease until eventually the price levels off at some kind of an equilibrium with fiat currencies -- maybe only some very small annual increase after that, because bitcoin will still have a lower inflation rate than most government-issued money. At that stage, people won't just hoard it anymore, because other investments will have a greater ROI. Maybe that point will be reached in 3 to 5 years, at a MUCH higher price than today.

[Siegfried]

I totally agree with this. I buy Bitcoins because I think they'll go up not because they're any use to me. I totally believe that 99% of the bitcoin buyers are like this, does anyone really believe that all the people buying BTC through exchanges and forcing the price up are doing so because they want to spend it - really, how, where.

I believe that speculation solves a catch-22, notably, how do you get people on board a currency and use it, when there is nothing to use it on? Well...the speculators get on board first, whether it's driven by greed, or a dream, or whatever. But now that early speculators, or even investors that have produced large profits, have some wealth, they will begin to want to spend it. Why? Because, you have the choice of either cashing out your winnings and paying a hefty gains tax on it, or directly spending the coins into something you want.  And the market will respond by offering items for those speculators that they can pay in bitcoins directly. And we're already seeing this happen: it's cumbersome, for the most part, at least for now, but remember, you can't solve the catch-22 otherwise.

Exactly.

[eindbaas]

I wish I could hold my money bit I have to cash out . I invested when the coins where 120 dollars . Now I can start my dream job finally. I'm opening few webshops wich I will accept bitcoins! Thanks bitcoin to start my life

[batcoin]

I wish I could hold my money bit I have to cash out . I invested when the coins where 120 dollars . Now I can start my dream job finally. I'm opening few webshops wich I will accept bitcoins! Thanks bitcoin to start my life

This is excellent to hear! Congrats and let us know when you have your shops open.

[Kaliecious]

I wish I could hold my money bit I have to cash out . I invested when the coins where 120 dollars . Now I can start my dream job finally. I'm opening few webshops wich I will accept bitcoins! Thanks bitcoin to start my life

how many other threads are you going to repeat this in?

[oyeTorry]

I wish I could hold my money bit I have to cash out . I invested when the coins where 120 dollars . Now I can start my dream job finally. I'm opening few webshops wich I will accept bitcoins! Thanks bitcoin to start my life

how many other threads are you going to repeat this in?

Anyway it is nice to have few next places to spend Bitcoins on. I was worrying the price rise is just pure speculation, but it can drive the Bitcoin useability at web shops as well

[Kaliecious]

I wish I could hold my money bit I have to cash out . I invested when the coins where 120 dollars . Now I can start my dream job finally. I'm opening few webshops wich I will accept bitcoins! Thanks bitcoin to start my life

how many other threads are you going to repeat this in?

Anyway it is nice to have few next places to spend Bitcoins on. I was worrying the price rise is just pure speculation, but it can drive the Bitcoin useability at web shops as well

if I was a webshop I wouldn't be able to accept btc with the large fluctuation in price. it would have to be imediant conversion into cash or I could lose my ass. purchase a product at 3 a lb and then sell at 3.75 just a few points moving puts me at a loss.