What happened to Bitcoin revolution?

[wwzsocki]

Hi, fellow Bitcointalkers I want to share few thoughts with you.

Recently, I have the impression that the revolution that Satoshi and his Bitcoin initiated is used by various people for purposes that have nothing to do with the main slogans of this revolution. I mean, of course, ICO, but not only, I'm talking about the entire cryptocurrency market and everything related to blockchain technology.

What is recently happening is simply unacceptable and must change. This is why regulators are coming, first to the world of ICO's and later to the entire crypto market. We all feel it on our own skin with every new investment in ICO. Complete lack of information it is always possible to have a clean scam and there is no control.

That is why earnings from this investments are sometimes hundred-fold because it is pure speculation and I have an irresistible impression that the revolution, decentralization and all other values that bitcoin has initiated have been lost and only the money and gains count today.
Somewhere, everything we were fascinated with a few years ago, namely privacy, anonymity, decentralization is somehow lost and used for everything except of what Satoshi was all about.

I believe that Satoshi is still alive. And I ask myself what Satoshi thinks when he looks at what happened to his project and revolution?

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[jmlona]

It's quite clear that bitcoin has strayed from Satoshi's initial vision and that's in a large part down to many people using it as a means for profit and investment instead of to provide greater equality and transparency in financial transactions. The only way we revert back to Satoshi's vision is action, start using bitcoin for payments and push for it to be used as a CURRENCY

[Furious 7]

I understand that ICO is a kind of gold mine to earn money. gambling in investing can not be released in it. I understand that ICO has no clear control so there is no legal guarantee for investors. this is a drawback of ICO, but another impact is that the growth of ICO helps boost purchases of altcoin and Bitcoin all interconnected like symbiotic mutualism. an obligation is the ICO must have laws and regulations so that investors are protected.

[Roman Coinson]

I think that the creator of bitcoin doesn't care how his brainchild develops!The main thing is that it works!

[javadsalehi]

Yes. It's a big problem. I think we all should admit that decentralization is not good at all. We need some rules. Cryptocurrencies and specially ICOs must be regulated. Sadly, some people are misusing cryptocurrencies to scam people.

[Jonsnowstark]

Oh well, id say it sure did deviate from what satoshi has formulated it to be. Anonymousity and untraceability, well because of these features, the governments are doing its best to kill this. They said because of this, it can be used for crimes like terrorism.and money laundering. True that, however i believe that the real reason is because they wanted to tax all bitcoin earners.

[wwzsocki]

...start using bitcoin for payments and push for it to be used as a CURRENCY

Oh well, id say it sure did deviate from what satoshi has formulated it to be...

... Cryptocurrencies and specially ICOs must be regulated...

You're right, but nowadays not everyone will want to use bitcoin, we have a lot of other and better cryptocurrencies.Without a quick change in the way we work on bitcoin, we simply lose the race with the better younger coins.

Bitcoin continues to use its advantage and a few happy coincidences that have influenced the rapid movement of the price but soon all these privileges will be taken away and slowly are. After that Bitcoin will start slowly losing this race.

I don't want cryptocurrencies or ICO to be regulated. I don't want this at all. But this would be just better for every human being if there will be some kind of regulation - protection for investors. This wild west must end.

[Anti-Cen]

The pink elephant in the room killed Bitcoin.

$55 Miner transaction fees

Now the FUD blames China, Putin and bad weather but who on earth can trust a currency
when it known to have cost $55 just to store 250 bytes of data on this thing they call the magical
block-chain and if it was such a fantastic thing then how come it's been dumped in the lightning network ?

[Anti-Cen]

Yes. It's a big problem. I think we all should admit that decentralization is not good at all. We need some rules. Cryptocurrencies and specially ICOs must be regulated. Sadly, some people are misusing cryptocurrencies to scam people.

None more so than Bitcoin if you care to take the red pill !

We don't need full blown centralization (YOU GOT THAT WITH LIGHTNING NETWORK) but a cluster of dare i say "Trusted Nodes"
is something that you have to accept if you want something to scale on the internet but the founding fathers here want people to
believe that it will send you blind if you beat the bishop, just sends you deaf it does 

[BillCoin]

I understand that ICO is a kind of gold mine to earn money. gambling in investing can not be released in it. I understand that ICO has no clear control so there is no legal guarantee for investors. this is a drawback of ICO, but another impact is that the growth of ICO helps boost purchases of altcoin and Bitcoin all interconnected like symbiotic mutualism. an obligation is the ICO must have laws and regulations so that investors are protected.

"Gold mine"?
More like the golden scam, when someone earns money someone has to lose this money, and who do you think that lose this money?
Usually people who are newcomers and it causes them to lose money, do you really want newcomers to think that the crypto industry is a scam and it's dangeorus to trade in?
I believe not, and that's what this ICOs are exactly doing.

[wwzsocki]

The pink elephant in the room killed Bitcoin.

$55 Miner transaction fees
...who on earth can trust a currency when it known to have cost $55 just to store 250 bytes of data on this thing they call the magical block-chain...

As I already said in my previous post, you are a perfect example that people will choose new, better and cheaper coins.

We must do everything we can to improve Bitcoin to be able to compete with other new and better cryptocurrencies or to introduce other solutions that lead to lower costs and improved performance for Bitcoin network. But it must be done now because we start losing this race.

You make fun of Bitcoin and his blockchain calling him magical and fantastic caring 250 bytes for 55$, but do not forget that without it there wouldn't be all this blockchain movement and all these new promising technologies.

Never forget what Satoshi and his Bitcoin did for humanity. It deserves admiration in my opinion.

[Anti-Cen]

"Gold mine"?
More like the golden scam, when someone earns money someone has to lose this money, and who do you think that lose this money?
Usually people who are newcomers and it causes them to lose money, do you really want newcomers to think that the crypto industry is a scam and it's dangeorus to trade in?
I believe not, and that's what this ICOs are exactly doing.

Don't blame everyone else, blame the miners here for the scam of pumping fees up to $55 and this has rubbed off
on all the other alt-coins.

That debt has yet to be paid, house cleaning is needed, bitcoin needs to be made an example off for any faith to return
to cryptocoins dealing with it's own scammers

[Anti-Cen]

We must do everything we can to improve Bitcoin to be able to compete with other new and better cryptocurrencies

It's needs a total re-write to compete and the lightning network is a big step in the wrong direction but the likes
of Mr P Noon who's project manager of LN won't even answer emails and the censorship we in the developer section
of this site receive is a total joke.

The democracy is not working, mafia gangsters and bankers have taken over Bitcoin and it was not "We" that
changed the rules without asking and pissed on loyal supporters was it now.

oh, and when I say "We" I am not talking about the slot machine players that came along about six months ago.

[Coin-1]

Don't blame everyone else, blame the miners here for the scam of pumping fees up to $55 and this has rubbed off
on all the other alt-coins.

Yes, the transaction fees are too high indeed. The Bitcoin miners approved SegWit, but rejected the increasing block size 2x. The demand of making transactions is high, therefore the fees soared.

Anyway, I think that the price of BTC mostly depends on the trading tactics. The crypto exchange markets are manipulated by the large investors pumping or dumping the price of crypto currency.

[jmlona]

...start using bitcoin for payments and push for it to be used as a CURRENCY

You're right, but nowadays not everyone will want to use bitcoin, we have a lot of other and better cryptocurrencies.Without a quick change in the way we work on bitcoin, we simply lose the race with the better younger coins.

I'd disagree in having a lot of better cryptocurrencies. The main advantage bitcoin has it is far more decentralized than most and also has wide recognition. There might be technically better coins but overall I believe bitcoin is still the best. My point is the same for any cryptocurrency however, if it is not being used as a currency then eventually people will realize there's little or no utility and will stop holding it for investment purposes. There must be a balance between investors and users.

[franky1]

Cryptocurrencies and specially ICOs must be regulated.  

wrong
here is my reasoning.

bitcoins revolution side stepped in 2014 when a certain team deemed bitcoin to not be a 'electonic cash':satoshi's white paper. and instead a investment vessel (store of value)
this made bitcoin be treated no longer as an alternative to fiat. but as a get rich gimmick to increase fiat. thus killing the revolution

they intentially took out the tx fee policy and did not evolve the block size to cause a tx fee civil war which renderd it near impossible to be treated as a electronic cash. merchants stopped accepting bitcoin as a payment method for their products and services.

then the team went after not wanting bitcoin to be 'peer2peer':satoshi's white paper. and instead try to make the community believe the only evolution they would allow was a off chain accounting system involving the requirement of a co-signer(multisig LN channel) and middle men(hop-hub) routing

next instead of the community seeking out "consumer protection laws" they wanted advocates to seek out "regulation". these are 2 very very different things.
regulators charge a huge fee to allow a business to operate. but then require the business to self report on its customers..
consumer protection is an insurance and criminal action group that customers can report on bad businesses

by saying regulation is good is putting up a huge price tag for businesses to start up. but then letting them get away with murder, while the customers suffer.

this is where regulations actually cause there to be a need for ICO's because suddenly ethical businesses need to fund raise just to start up. rather than just sell a product or service.

many advocates from before 2014 gave up trying to get more merchant adoption because of the wrong path that this teams roadmap has taken the community, as they have seen their hard work of merchant adopting prior to 2014 being undone recently by those merchants stop accepting bitcoin.

so let me be clear
regulations - no!!. it does not help users or ethical businesses
consumer protection - yes!! it helps consumers and ethical businesses

as for the evolution of the network, onchain capacity of legacy transaction types need addressing. because the non-legacy address types are all going to become multisigned addresses with schnorr to disguise how many and who the co-signers are. so that people no longer control their own funds and dont know who will backstab them to take the funds away.

[hatshepsut93]

Satoshi didn't create any "blockchain technology", he created Bitcoin. This is important to distinguish, because many people think that "blockchain technology" is a movement for decentralizing the whole economy and was inspired by Bitcoin, but in reality it mostly just cash grabs done by startups and big companies in order to get money from investors who throw money at everything crypto related because they hope to get crazy returns. And it has turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy, because no one judges coins nowdays based on their quality, people are just speculating and manipulating on volatile markets.

But you can't say that revolution has been lost, because Bitcoin is the revolution, and enthusiasts continue working on it, and community keeps growing, and people keep adopting, and there are even some decent projects that are not about grabbing money, like for example Monero. If you want to better understand what's going on in the crypto world, you have to spend more time learning about the technology so you can later for your own opinion about projects.

[Kaniel-ouots]

first i dont believe that someoen called satoshi created all this revolution money and the price keep changing this doesnt mean bitcoin is useless or is a lie

[ManaMan]

I believe that Satoshi is still alive. And I ask myself what Satoshi thinks when he looks at what happened to his project and revolution?

You can't tell people to not try to hang tight and jump into possible opportunity to earn money or to develop their project and provide valuable service or whatever else. What satoshi would think of the current situation is not relevant now. I mean I hear it all the time satoshies original idea was this and that, but we forget that this whole thing is decentralized and we don't care who thinks what, we care for what will majority of people go for.

ICO craze started like in 2016 as from then slowly people were lucnhing more of these and now we got till that point that there are many of them and you don't need most of the projects they are developing but it is all for the money. You can clearly see that this is how bubbles slowly forms as when people start to throw money around in hopes to get rich. Just look at the ICOs from last year, do you see their product - hear what has happened etc. many of them "failed" and more will this year. But this year I expect ICOs to raise a lot more money as well as more people get on board.

Thing is since the raise of bitcoin price more people are jumping in hopes to find/develop and earn big time. You can't blame people for seeing the opportunity and trying to make a buck. I understand your point to the degree that nowadays you don't care about being your own bank and principles of privacy etc. as long as you can make money.

People are gonna throw money at crypto and they are gonna do it even more if they believe they can buy lambo next week, sadly but this is how this whole thing is turning into. We are like going into online casinos (exchanges) and are gambling with our money to get rich quick. But I do hope that this period has to pass, at least more people are understanding and have knowledge that such thing exists.

[richardsNY]

The revolution is an ongoing process that will continue to be a revolution till the moment we can say that fiat is no longer the main standard. On top of that, I don't believe that Satoshi is a mysterious individual or group. If we look at the date Bitcoin's white paper started to circulate, it could as well be an initiative by bankers not agreeing with how they are controlling and slowly ruining the economy and people's lives. It might be coincidence, or maybe not, but it is definitely interesting that around that time, we went through a massive financial crisis caused by banks. Bitcoin could very well be an answer to how banks have been messing up.