Do you really believe in bitcoin as a currency?

[User705]

Not currency, but valuable commodity.

Given the fact it is P2P, bitcoin cannot be banned, seized or whatever 

I agree. Since day 1 (about $0.85 in my case), I've saw far greater potential was as a speculative asset / offshore value-storage account, than as a grandma's e-currency for online payments. Gavin was one of the people always pushing to sign up merchants to use as a "currency" (he signed up his neighbors to sell alpaca socks), instead of a game about "buying low and selling high". But clearly, such efforts are futile.

+1
It's not currency and doesn't need to replace it.  It's more like a reference currency for all other currencies.

[1715164501]

1715164501

[1715164501]

1715164501

[1715164501]

1715164501

[Barnacle_Ed]

I believe in Bitcoin as a commodity. As a proper currency, no...the price fluctuates far too rapidly.




Perhaps once the price stabilizes in the future, I will amend this statement.

[AnonyMint]

If it is not a currency, then why does it have any value at all, other than as a ponzi scheme where new investors provide the gains for earlier investors?  

When the market cap of those naive enough to buy this is saturated, then we play pop-goes-the-balloon.

I am not saying that Bitcoin doesn't show us the way towards a real decentralized currency. But Bitcoin ain't it and can't be, because there is no way to distribute the coins such that it could be, i.e. there are 7 billion people on this planet and by the time 1% of them own Bitcoin, the rest of them will be worth 1/1000000 if Bitcoin becomes the global currency. And Bitcoins are concentrated into investors hands, and investors don't spend all their networth as a currency. And if all the people don't use it as currency, then how do you invest with it and pay employees with it. Just think it out.

Distribution is the critical factor nowadays in any business. How did facebook win? Distribution!

How with the elite win when setting up the next currency regime for the world? Distribution!

Mimicking sweaty armpits Steve Ballmer, instead of "developers, developers, developers", this gorilla is chanting "distribution, distribution, distribution".

And I am not saying I don't admire the genius of what Bitcoin shows us might be possible.

[pollsteer23]

If it is not a currency, then why does it have any value at all, other than as a ponzi scheme where new investors provide the gains for earlier investors?  

When the market cap of those naive enough to buy this is saturated, then we play pop-goes-the-balloon.

It is functional as a currency. If it will be used in the future the value of each bitcoin must be much higher than now. The only way to get from 0 value to necessary value is via volatility.

I am not saying that Bitcoin doesn't show us the way towards a real decentralized currency. But Bitcoin ain't it and can't be, because there is no way to distribute the coins such that it could be, i.e. there are 7 billion people on this planet and by the time 1% of them own Bitcoin, the rest of them will be worth 1/1000000 if Bitcoin becomes the global currency. And Bitcoins are concentrated into investors hands, and investors don't spend all their networth as a currency. And if all the people don't use it as currency, then how do you invest with it and pay employees with it. Just think it out.

Distribution is the critical factor nowadays in any business. How did facebook win? Distribution!

How with the elite win when setting up the next currency regime for the world? Distribution!

First come first serve of a deflationary currency is probably the only fair way to distribute a new currency, if it were easy to convince people otherwise the SDRs would already be adopted. I imagine during the transition phase from gov fiat to the new currency the new currency will first be given as a benefit rather than the entire paycheck. What is your idea for a fair way to initially distribute?

[thoughtfan]

...Bitcoin ain't [a real decentralized currency] and can't be...

Interesting and surprising to see this coming from someone with such a high post-count here.  Surely you've heard all the arguments by now?  I guess you're not persuaded?  Let me have a go if I may...

...there is no way to distribute the coins such that it could be, i.e. there are 7 billion people on this planet and by the time 1% of them own Bitcoin, the rest of them will be worth 1/1000000 if Bitcoin becomes the global currency. And Bitcoins are concentrated into investors hands, and investors don't spend all their networth as a currency. And if all the people don't use it as currency, then how do you invest with it and pay employees with it.

I believe what you are saying is that there is 'no way to distribute the coins' in such a way that would satisfy your utopian 'fair' distribution criteria.  It is not the same at all as saying that bitcoin can not be distributed sufficiently to be usable as an everyday currency by the majority.

If as has been discussed aplenty elsewhere it is not an insurmountable task to break bitcoins down to further decimal places then it doesn't matter in practical terms if a small number of holders hold 99.9% of the coins in cold storage with the remaining .1% of bitcoins being distributed between 7 billion people because whatever value it holds for them it can still be used for transactions.

And the reason I can not see this 'big pop' happening is it doesn't matter how tiny the fraction of a bitcoin being purchased by those among the last to purchase them (or receive them in payment) if with it they can purchase the equivalent of what they could with the currency they would otherwise have used.

I personally see the .1% bitcoin wealthiest as being much more likely to do something constructive with their money to the benefit of many than the .1% fiat wealthiest today.  But that's mere speculation.  What we can see is that bitcoin undoubtedly facilitated distribution from a few crypto enthusiasts to the numbers of people holding bitcoin today.  Why would that not continue?

Just think it out.

I also suggest everyone 'just think it out' but I don't expect most to come to the same conclusions as you have

[SuperHakka]

i really want to believe btc can be a viable currency. several things have to happen first though. let me explain. i was thinking of setting up a business, prob online, accepting btc as primary payment method. then the more i thought about it, the practicalities came to mind. assuming customers make a transaction and pay me in btc, then i have a few probs, namely

i how do i do my accounting? i have to base my accounts in GBP, so what do i do, do i treat btc as a current asset? what exchange rate to use and how to verify? how do i convince tax authorities that i am not swindling them (those who have not had actual conversations with said tax authorities need not comment)

ii i be doing the business to make profits for me and family to buy other goods. now here in the uk, there is nothing to buy that doesn't involve international delivery.

so we need to have some kind of ecosystem. hey looking at my own post, maybe i can some sort of pioneer in uk market? be the change!

[niothor]

Bitcoin could be considered a currency if people start buying and selling things with it.
Many users tend to compare the price to which a bitcoin is traded right now , to it's actual use.

Bitcoin has grown 100 times in value in the last year , while the number of transactions has barely doubled.
Currently most people see it as an investment rather than a currency.

[Ekaros]

If it is not a currency, then why does it have any value at all, other than as a ponzi scheme where new investors provide the gains for earlier investors?  

When the market cap of those naive enough to buy this is saturated, then we play pop-goes-the-balloon.

I am not saying that Bitcoin doesn't show us the way towards a real decentralized currency. But Bitcoin ain't it and can't be, because there is no way to distribute the coins such that it could be, i.e. there are 7 billion people on this planet and by the time 1% of them own Bitcoin, the rest of them will be worth 1/1000000 if Bitcoin becomes the global currency. And Bitcoins are concentrated into investors hands, and investors don't spend all their networth as a currency. And if all the people don't use it as currency, then how do you invest with it and pay employees with it. Just think it out.

Distribution is the critical factor nowadays in any business. How did facebook win? Distribution!

How with the elite win when setting up the next currency regime for the world? Distribution!

Mimicking sweaty armpits Steve Ballmer, instead of "developers, developers, developers", this gorilla is chanting "distribution, distribution, distribution".

And I am not saying I don't admire the genius of what Bitcoin shows us might be possible.

I don't see why any big fiat players would move to BTC... When they have an option to start new one with rest of the big players. And they can get the regular folk behind that one. Just by starting to pay with it and only accepting it...

And I mean the billionaires, large financial institutions and such...

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Not currency, but valuable commodity.

Given the fact it is P2P, bitcoin cannot be banned, seized or whatever  

I agree. Since day 1 (about $0.85 in my case), I've saw far greater potential was as a speculative asset / offshore value-storage account, than as a grandma's e-currency for online payments. Gavin was one of the people always pushing to sign up merchants to use as a "currency" (he signed up his neighbors to sell alpaca socks), instead of a game about "buying low and selling high". But clearly, such efforts are futile.

+1

Currency use will come later. Now is the store-of-value phase, mostly. Then comes the remittance phase, soon, and then finally when enough people are conversant in Bitcoin we will see the major merchant adoption.

People invest now based fundamentally on the promise of other uses in the future. Bitcoin rewards such risk-taking and insightful people. In so doing it becomes a store of value now. It's beautiful.

[DoomDumas]

Sure BTC is a currency.. and it's a revolution because it decentralized and it is also a paiement protocol in and of itself..
One of the great revolution of the 21st century, like 3D printing and other disruptive technology that should emerge in the future.

BTC will be part of our children lives like the internet is part of ours !

[DoomDumas]

Bitcoin has grown 100 times in value in the last year , while the number of transactions has barely doubled.
Currently most people see it as an investment rather than a currency.

Maybe, like it's the case from the begining.. some peoples are visionaire and understand the potential of the breaktrought that BTC is.

Those visionaire beleive in the future of BTC  and are just buying until it reach what they think it will worth in five or ten years.

We must take in account that the chineese govt is very tired and pissed off of what the USA is doing with the international reserve currency.  And AFAIK, This CNY govt is actually encouraging chineese citizens to invest in BTC.  Maybe, just maybe, this CNY govt sees in BTC a nice alternative to U$.. 

I notice that the USA is the country that is the most worried and tends to be the most restrictive/repulsive country to BTC..  Maybe this have something to do with the fact that they control the international currency..  I bet they fear BTC because it could undermine the power they have by owning THE actual international reserve currency.

Imo, this is a world changing issue (BTC).  USA will be more and more restrictive about BTC, and other countries, tired of being the victim of the Federal Reserve policies will embrace BTC to defend themselve against the U$ oppression they actually have to deal with.

Long live to China, and hope there will not be too much suffering in western countries.

[AnonyMint]

I have rebutted all the replies since my prior post upthread, at the following post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323988.msg3625475#msg3625475

Prepare to have your jaw drop to the floor.

[cdtc]

Unfortunately for me, I haven't been around bitcoin for long enough, just a few months, however I really believe in it.

I believe this first one is a world first:- (unless ofc you know better?)

To do my bit I've setup wallets on my daughters Phones and I pay their pocket money (allowance I think USA refer to it as) in bitcoins. They love to watch it increase daily. To cash out I buy them back at the current rate whenever they require.

I have also setup accepting payment by bitcoin for a couple of small real world (not online) business that I own.

I'm working on paying staff by bitcoins too, if not fully, at least in part.

What's your help in spreading it to the masses?

Do you really believe in bitcoin as a currency?

I think of it like internet currency not a real one, just something it could substitute paypal  and all internet transactions.

[Mondy]

Barely most people dont buy with it, but trade to fiat

[niothor]

Bitcoin has grown 100 times in value in the last year , while the number of transactions has barely doubled.
Currently most people see it as an investment rather than a currency.

Maybe, like it's the case from the begining.. some peoples are visionaire and understand the potential of the breaktrought that BTC is.

Those visionaire beleive in the future of BTC  and are just buying until it reach what they think it will worth in five or ten years.

We must take in account that the chineese govt is very tired and pissed off of what the USA is doing with the international reserve currency.  And AFAIK, This CNY govt is actually encouraging chineese citizens to invest in BTC.  Maybe, just maybe, this CNY govt sees in BTC a nice alternative to U$.. 

I notice that the USA is the country that is the most worried and tends to be the most restrictive/repulsive country to BTC..  Maybe this have something to do with the fact that they control the international currency..  I bet they fear BTC because it could undermine the power they have by owning THE actual international reserve currency.

Imo, this is a world changing issue (BTC).  USA will be more and more restrictive about BTC, and other countries, tired of being the victim of the Federal Reserve policies will embrace BTC to defend themselve against the U$ oppression they actually have to deal with.

Long live to China, and hope there will not be too much suffering in western countries.

Yeah , it's called investment.

[AnonyMint]

Armstrong has reiterated some (but not all) of my points against BitCON:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/19/congressional-hearings-on-bitcoin/

[bitcoinBull]

Armstrong has reiterated some (but not all) of my points against BitCON:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/19/congressional-hearings-on-bitcoin/

I agree, bitcoin "will not replace the dollar" and it also won't wash your dishes.

But its best damn offshore online speculative investment the internet has ever seen.

[Ekaros]

Armstrong has reiterated some (but not all) of my points against BitCON:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/19/congressional-hearings-on-bitcoin/

I agree, bitcoin "will not replace the dollar" and it also won't wash your dishes.

But its best damn offshore online speculative investment the internet has ever seen.

That is kinda crazy statement in itself... But there is quite a lot truth in it...

[AnonyMint]

Armstrong has reiterated some (but not all) of my points against BitCON:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/19/congressional-hearings-on-bitcoin/

I agree, bitcoin "will not replace the dollar" and it also won't wash your dishes.

But its best damn offshore online speculative investment the internet has ever seen.

That is kinda crazy statement in itself... But there is quite a lot truth in it...

And did you comply with FATCA then, which was one of Armstrong points of how they will put you in jail (if you are a US citizen).

[AnonyMint]

Yeah , it's called investment.

That is also what Charles Ponzi and Bernie Madoff claimed.