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Author Topic: Mtgox and other exchanges, please ban this .01 BTC high freq trades ruining  (Read 2082 times)
ampirebus
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August 02, 2011, 08:07:51 PM
 #1

nothing good comes from it. please consider making a minimum trade value of 1BTC when placing an order. I'm tired of watching www.mtgoxlive.com and seeing people trading .01 btc , sometimes even .00 shows up . In fact prices would go up if there wasnt this high frequency crap. Move it to dark pools so it doesnt affect the normal market. if the entire point of mtgox or other exchanges is for only botters to make money while tricking other people, i might as well use the real stock market.

I've got ~400 in mtgox. At least consider a ceiling value on placing/cancelling orders

or possibly increase fee % on traders who place/cancel 100s or 1000s of orders to dissuade them. Anything to make it less blatantly dubious
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natman3400
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August 02, 2011, 08:54:02 PM
 #2

nothing good comes from it. please consider making a minimum trade value of 1BTC when placing an order. I'm tired of watching www.mtgoxlive.com and seeing people trading .01 btc , sometimes even .00 shows up . In fact prices would go up if there wasnt this high frequency crap. Move it to dark pools so it doesnt affect the normal market. if the entire point of mtgox or other exchanges is for only botters to make money while tricking other people, i might as well use the real stock market.

I've got ~400 in mtgox. At least consider a ceiling value on placing/cancelling orders

or possibly increase fee % on traders who place/cancel 100s or 1000s of orders to dissuade them. Anything to make it less blatantly dubious
"Oh hey, I'm short 2 dollars worth of bitcoins, no bother, I'm sure I've got enough to cover that in my MtGox."
*Logs onto MtGox*
"Oh great, now I have to buy $12 worth of bitcoin to get my 2 dollars worth that I am short"
*2 days later*
'New exchange: Doesn't have a trade minimum!'
*everyone, being pissed at GOX, flocks to the new exchange*

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ampirebus
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August 02, 2011, 09:31:54 PM
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nothing good comes from it. please consider making a minimum trade value of 1BTC when placing an order. I'm tired of watching www.mtgoxlive.com and seeing people trading .01 btc , sometimes even .00 shows up . In fact prices would go up if there wasnt this high frequency crap. Move it to dark pools so it doesnt affect the normal market. if the entire point of mtgox or other exchanges is for only botters to make money while tricking other people, i might as well use the real stock market.

I've got ~400 in mtgox. At least consider a ceiling value on placing/cancelling orders

or possibly increase fee % on traders who place/cancel 100s or 1000s of orders to dissuade them. Anything to make it less blatantly dubious
"Oh hey, I'm short 2 dollars worth of bitcoins, no bother, I'm sure I've got enough to cover that in my MtGox."
*Logs onto MtGox*
"Oh great, now I have to buy $12 worth of bitcoin to get my 2 dollars worth that I am short"
*2 days later*
'New exchange: Doesn't have a trade minimum!'
*everyone, being pissed at GOX, flocks to the new exchange*

no sane person who trades bitcoins would be upset at a minimum value of 1.0 Bitcoin trades instead of .0023 ,
and by your logic only egregious bot abusers would flock to a different exchange, and normal traders would have no reason to leave...  If someone is a high frequency trader they should see higher fees down the line and possibly lower fees for low frequency traders as an offset.

consider the minimum value one must have to buy a mutual fund is thousands of dollars. .01 bitcoin at todays average is just over $1
natman3400
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August 02, 2011, 09:46:56 PM
 #4

nothing good comes from it. please consider making a minimum trade value of 1BTC when placing an order. I'm tired of watching www.mtgoxlive.com and seeing people trading .01 btc , sometimes even .00 shows up . In fact prices would go up if there wasnt this high frequency crap. Move it to dark pools so it doesnt affect the normal market. if the entire point of mtgox or other exchanges is for only botters to make money while tricking other people, i might as well use the real stock market.

I've got ~400 in mtgox. At least consider a ceiling value on placing/cancelling orders

or possibly increase fee % on traders who place/cancel 100s or 1000s of orders to dissuade them. Anything to make it less blatantly dubious
"Oh hey, I'm short 2 dollars worth of bitcoins, no bother, I'm sure I've got enough to cover that in my MtGox."
*Logs onto MtGox*
"Oh great, now I have to buy $12 worth of bitcoin to get my 2 dollars worth that I am short"
*2 days later*
'New exchange: Doesn't have a trade minimum!'
*everyone, being pissed at GOX, flocks to the new exchange*

no sane person who trades bitcoins would be upset at a minimum value of 1.0 Bitcoin trades instead of .0023 ,
and by your logic only egregious bot abusers would flock to a different exchange, and normal traders would have no reason to leave...  If someone is a high frequency trader they should see higher fees down the line and possibly lower fees for low frequency traders as an offset.

consider the minimum value one must have to buy a mutual fund is thousands of dollars. .01 bitcoin at todays average is just over $1
I WOULD be upset at a minimum trade of 1.0 BTC. Due to the job I have, I don't always have about $15 sitting around to buy a (i rounded up, deal with it) Bitcoin when all I would need is 0.14 to fund the rest of the purchase I want to make. Bitcoin isn't intended in an investment, it can be used as such, but it is a currency first and an investment fifth. And as long as you aren't using bitcoin as an investment (which it's not), why should high-frequency trading bother you as long as the system can take it?

Not to mention the barrier this would impose to adoption of bitcoin.
If you want to go off and make an exchange that is exclusively for high-value traders, go ahead. Just leave me my ability to but the amount of coins I want. Maybe I want to take advantage of bitcoin's ability to make micropayments.

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RandyMarsh
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August 02, 2011, 10:00:03 PM
 #5

I think a cap that high (relatively speaking) would upset alot of people.

Its the frequency that these ridiculous bots are trading thats the problem. I cant find the thread suggesting this earlier but a much better solution was put forward that number of orders per day be capped, or for example, free for the first 100 orders and then a 0.1 bitcoins fee for every hundred after that.

Stan?! STAN?!?!
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August 02, 2011, 10:05:37 PM
 #6

STFU! go make you own exchange.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
natman3400
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August 02, 2011, 10:10:05 PM
 #7

I think a cap that high (relatively speaking) would upset alot of people.

Its the frequency that these ridiculous bots are trading thats the problem. I cant find the thread suggesting this earlier but a much better solution was put forward that number of orders per day be capped, or for example, free for the first 100 orders and then a 0.1 bitcoins fee for every hundred after that.
This. I would be happy to oblige with a cap on the number of trades I can do in a day for free, but I don't want a high minimum.

Support the BitClip project:
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Fireball
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August 02, 2011, 10:24:14 PM
 #8

In fact, these kind of microtransactions create the needed market liquidity. More of them - better. If existing systems can't handle the load, welcome to my one (oh well, when I finish it Smiley).

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qbg
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August 02, 2011, 10:38:33 PM
 #9

nothing good comes from it. please consider making a minimum trade value of 1BTC when placing an order. I'm tired of watching www.mtgoxlive.com and seeing people trading .01 btc , sometimes even .00 shows up . In fact prices would go up if there wasnt this high frequency crap. Move it to dark pools so it doesnt affect the normal market. if the entire point of mtgox or other exchanges is for only botters to make money while tricking other people, i might as well use the real stock market.

I've got ~400 in mtgox. At least consider a ceiling value on placing/cancelling orders

or possibly increase fee % on traders who place/cancel 100s or 1000s of orders to dissuade them. Anything to make it less blatantly dubious
It provides stability, which is good and allows businesses to more easily work with Bitcoins.
airdata
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August 02, 2011, 11:21:23 PM
 #10

I'm completely with doing something about canceling high volume buy/sell orders.  They are used to attempt to manipulate the market and should face a penalty of some sort for doing so.

Legitimate transactions are fine... fake ones should just gtfo.
GeniuSxBoY
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August 02, 2011, 11:27:34 PM
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kokjo
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August 02, 2011, 11:35:00 PM
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why?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
GeniuSxBoY
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August 02, 2011, 11:43:37 PM
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 it's annoying, slows the servers down, makes it impossible to read bid/ask history.


elggawf
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August 03, 2011, 02:50:59 AM
 #14

CampBX has a minimum transaction of 0.1 BTC. Go there.

^_^
Tasty Champa
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August 03, 2011, 03:35:33 AM
 #15

Right Now. as soon as you buy, the price will drop.
when a person buys, it's a bot selling.
if that happens, the bot has to make the price lower,
so it can buy more.

so right now, buying is always a loss to the buyer.

therefore, do not sell to or buy from the bots.
kokjo
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August 03, 2011, 08:36:35 AM
 #16

it's annoying, slows the servers down, makes it impossible to read bid/ask history.
and...?
i can read the bid/ask, you should be able to do it too.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
Fireball
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August 03, 2011, 10:16:24 AM
 #17

Right Now. as soon as you buy, the price will drop.
when a person buys, it's a bot selling.
if that happens, the bot has to make the price lower,
so it can buy more.

so right now, buying is always a loss to the buyer.

therefore, do not sell to or buy from the bots.

That happens when the market depth is too low, and in a normal scenario there should be thousands competing market makers, trading bots and normal human orders too. All of this makes a special eco-system. If it would be so easy to move the market as you say, one could abuse it.

Though I have some ideas to counterfeight some of the disadvantages existing now in major bitcoin exchanges, I will share later.

Margin trading platform OrderBook.net (ICBIT): https://orderbook.net
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