Why I'm boycotting bitcoins.

[Mike Christ]

Bitcoin is completely voluntary. In contrast to FIAT Currencies nobody forces you to use Bitcoin and hopefully no one ever will.

That really sums it up, and it's fundamental difference compared to fiat. No one is forced to use it, but people do want to use it because they know there is no central issuing agency that can play with inflation however they fucking want.

No one really has to use fiat currency either.

True; they could always sit in jail for failing to pay their taxes

Do you know of any case where anyone has ever been put in jail for failing to pay their taxes, when they had no money to pay their taxes with?

That would imply vagrancy; I'm not sure which is better.  In one case, you get shelter and meals, but in the other case, you're less likely to be sexually assaulted...

Vagrancy? I said no money (i.e. no fiat currency). I didn't say no assets. The whole premise of this is that it's not necessary for someone to ever possess fiat currency.

Right; if you have no money, you have no property, for if you had property, you would need to pay a property tax, and because you had no money to pay your property tax, you could not own property (at least, not for very long), therefore you would be a vagrant.

You could also get by as a mooch, now that I think about it; you'd be at the whims of whomever was housing you but that's no fun.  It'd be hard to find a job; most everyone pays in fiat.  I suppose you could barter...

[pyra-proxy]

my asian wife disagrees with the Op ... go figure... 

[Mike Christ]

Right; if you have no money, you have no property, for if you had property, you would need to pay a property tax, and because you had no money to pay your property tax, you could not own property (at least, not for very long), therefore you would be a vagrant.

First of all, not every place in the world (or even in the United States) has property taxes.
Secondly, not everyone who doesn't own a house is a vagrant. They might rent. They might live with someone else.

You could also get by as a mooch, now that I think about it; you'd be at the whims of whomever was housing you but that's no fun.  It'd be hard to find a job; most everyone pays in fiat.  I suppose you could barter...

I totally agree that it's inconvenient to live without any fiat currency.

It's also inconvenient to live without a phone, or without a computer, etc.

It's a wee bit more than just inconvenient, is the point I'm trying to get across.

Lets assume we are American, for example; Obama decides everyone needs healthcare and will fine you 100$ for every month you don't get it.

Now what?  How do you move to another nation without fiat?

[DeathAndTaxes]

If you have assets and no legal tender and owe taxes the agents of the state will confiscate your assets and sell them at auction to pay your tax debt.  If you resist said confiscation the agents of the state will use violence to ensure the confiscation is successful.  If you defend yourself against that violence you will be going to jail unless you catch a bad case of dead first.

[Wilikon]

Sounds like you are the perfect candidate for the ObamaCoin 


All you have to do is sit on you rear all day and collect CoinStamps so you can redeem them for ObamaCoins.

If you are a minority you get additional ObamaCoins!

Good luck! 

HAHAHA!

[DeathAndTaxes]

Well at the risk of nonpayment penalties and estate auctions tend to get pretty low dollar.  So your $10,000 tax bill might be $15,000 with penalties, fees, and interest and the state may confiscate $30,000 worth of goods to auction off.  Any excess from the auction will be returned to you as legal tender.  Also while this may work for one or two years habitual tax evasion is a crime and you will end up in jail.

So saying legal tender is voluntary is like saying food is voluntary.  You can voluntarily choose to starve to death.  See you don't really need food, air, or water either.  You just want those things to avoid an untimely death.  When you stretch a definition to the point of stupidity well it is just stupid. 

[jubalix]

bitcoin is agnostic to who uses it for what and who owns it. The tech/maths stands on its own merits

you may be confusing the uses and users of BTC with the bitcoin itslef

[pontiacg5]

Well at the risk of nonpayment penalties and estate auctions tend to get pretty low dollar.  So your $10,000 tax bill might be $15,000 with penalties, fees, and interest and the state may confiscate $30,000 worth of goods to auction off.  Any excess from the auction will be returned to you as legal tender.  Also while this may work for one or two years habitual tax evasion is a crime and you will end up in jail.

Well, I'll ask you or anyone else the same question: Do you know of any case where anyone has ever been put in jail for failing to pay their taxes, when they had no money to pay their taxes with? I'm talking about a case where the person filed, reported all their income, etc. They just didn't pay it, because they didn't have any dollar bills with which to pay it. And I'm talking about something after they got rid of debtors' prisons.

This is dumb. If you owe taxes you have something to pay taxes with. If you owe taxes and you can't pay taxes because you blew your money then yes you will get into trouble.

If you have no money you have no taxes. If you have money you have taxes. End of story.

[pontiacg5]

Well at the risk of nonpayment penalties and estate auctions tend to get pretty low dollar.  So your $10,000 tax bill might be $15,000 with penalties, fees, and interest and the state may confiscate $30,000 worth of goods to auction off.  Any excess from the auction will be returned to you as legal tender.  Also while this may work for one or two years habitual tax evasion is a crime and you will end up in jail.

Well, I'll ask you or anyone else the same question: Do you know of any case where anyone has ever been put in jail for failing to pay their taxes, when they had no money to pay their taxes with? I'm talking about a case where the person filed, reported all their income, etc. They just didn't pay it, because they didn't have any dollar bills with which to pay it. And I'm talking about something after they got rid of debtors' prisons.

This is dumb. If you owe taxes you have something to pay taxes with. If you owe taxes and you can't pay taxes because you blew your money then yes you will get into trouble.

I've seen a lot of people who owed taxes and couldn't pay them because they blew their money, and not one of them went to jail.

If you have no money you have no taxes. If you have money you have taxes. End of story.

Completely untrue, though. If you win a porsche in a raffle, you'll probably owe taxes, regardless of whether or not you have any money.

If a homeless person finds a million dollars worth of gold buried in a treasure chest, she's probably going to owe taxes, regardless of whether or not she has any money.

Notice I did not say "go to jail" I said "get in trouble" as in the IRS owns your house, you get what's left. You still have assets, and those assets are worth money. Same thing as owning money to the IRS. If you hide assets or do the same thing year after year I can see you going to jail.

And if a homeless person finds a million dollars, well then that homeless man now has money then am I right? Thank you for proving my point. A Porsche is a rather terrible asset, still the same as cash.

[RodeoX]

A guy in Africa with access to a smart-phone and a mailbox can transact with almost anyone on the planet. No currency has ever been able to hand power to the poor like bitcoin.

[Tirapon]

A guy in Africa with access to a smart-phone and a mailbox can transact with almost anyone on the planet. No currency has ever been able to hand power to the poor like bitcoin.

With services like moneero it won't even need to be a smart phone. Any phone will do, you can send via sms.

[pontiacg5]

What is this point that you're proving? That the IRS requires you to pay your taxes? I completely agree with that. My point is that neither they nor anyone ever forces you to use fiat.

My point is if you wish to own anything at all, or you ever wish to own anything at all, in the US you will at some point have to use FIAT to pay taxes on what you own. Of course you don't have to pay, but if you don't they take your stuff and sell it for FIAT which is the same thing.

Even if you only work for food, you never get paid a single FIAT dollar for labor in your life, you still owe income tax equivalent to the dollar value of the food you receive. Same with getting paid with bitcoins, same with gold. You owe the US GOV fed dollars, if you want to stay legal.

[pontiacg5]

I'm done. If you think you can actually live (and I mean live, not exist) in the US without ever touching the USD I can't do anything for you.

[bbulker]

It's inherently classist. Only those with access to moderately high levels of technology can spend or receive it. Only those with access to exceedingly high levels of technology can "mine" it. Heterosexual, middle class or higher white males are disproportionally represented in the demographics of bitcoin users. Bitcoin only serves to uphold the current kyriarchal socioeconomic structures by making sure the privileged become more privileged.

And it's a terrible idea. You spend more on your parents' electricity bill and replacing burnt out GPUs that your parents buy for christmas and birthdays than you actually theoretically make.

Bitcoins are basically just this weird attempt by lolbertarian children to make their own currency and play stock market and dodge taxes.

SRS scum detected. Added to ignore list.

It sickens me to see that you disgusting excuses for human beings have spread to bitcointalk. I've witnessed your sad attempts at suppressing free-speech all over the internet. You cannot suppress the free currency.

Go back to your clan of ugly, hairy, women; your shilling doesn't work here.

[Rez]

It's inherently classist. Only those with access to moderately high levels of technology can spend or receive it. Only those with access to exceedingly high levels of technology can "mine" it. Heterosexual, middle class or higher white males are disproportionally represented in the demographics of bitcoin users. Bitcoin only serves to uphold the current kyriarchal socioeconomic structures by making sure the privileged become more privileged.

And it's a terrible idea. You spend more on your parents' electricity bill and replacing burnt out GPUs that your parents buy for christmas and birthdays than you actually theoretically make.

Bitcoins are basically just this weird attempt by lolbertarian children to make their own currency and play stock market and dodge taxes.

Um, I'm not a libertarian. I'm actually a socialist anarchist at heart. I support Bitcoin in part precisely because it opens up an alternate form of currency and value in nations for which trust in the local currency is sketchy at best, in crippling hyperinflation at worst. Perhaps you're not aware of the fact that more people in Kenya have smartphones than they do running water.  The internet itself began as a technology reserved for an entitled few, but has become *the* global form of communication, used by both rich and poor.

I sense a rather smug "better-than-thou" elitism in your own words, so I don't plan to waste a lot of time trying to get you to see Bitcoin from a different perspective. But I suspect that you would have written more or less the same words about the Internet in the mid 90s - on paper with pen - and hand delivered it to a local computer user group - of largely heterosexual white males.

China is rapidly becoming the dominant hub of Bitcoin activity.  I don't think they would take too kindly to your claim that they are "white".  In fact, they might consider you a bit of a racist.

But continue to boycott Bitcoins. It really doesn't matter to anyone but you. The world will continue to evolve technologically, but there will always be those who - for whatever reason - resist progress.

Also, boycott dollars. They only serve to uphold the current kyriarchal socioeconomic structures by making sure the privileged become more privileged.  Maybe you can find someone who will accept payment in leaves or bark. Just don't oppress the trees in the process of collecting them.

[lumierre]

It's inherently classist. Only those with access to moderately high levels of technology can spend or receive it. Only those with access to exceedingly high levels of technology can "mine" it. Heterosexual, middle class or higher white males are disproportionally represented in the demographics of bitcoin users. Bitcoin only serves to uphold the current kyriarchal socioeconomic structures by making sure the privileged become more privileged.

And it's a terrible idea. You spend more on your parents' electricity bill and replacing burnt out GPUs that your parents buy for christmas and birthdays than you actually theoretically make.

Bitcoins are basically just this weird attempt by lolbertarian children to make their own currency and play stock market and dodge taxes.

So you are suggesting we go back to the stone age and have stones as money? That way everbody have access to money. Yup, that's a good idea.

[Gorgoy]

It's inherently classist. Only those with access to moderately high levels of technology can spend or receive it. Only those with access to exceedingly high levels of technology can "mine" it. Heterosexual, middle class or higher white males are disproportionally represented in the demographics of bitcoin users. Bitcoin only serves to uphold the current kyriarchal socioeconomic structures by making sure the privileged become more privileged.

And it's a terrible idea. You spend more on your parents' electricity bill and replacing burnt out GPUs that your parents buy for christmas and birthdays than you actually theoretically make.

Bitcoins are basically just this weird attempt by lolbertarian children to make their own currency and play stock market and dodge taxes.

Yes, because China, who is currently moving most of the money, are all middle class or higher white males and fit your general stereotype perfectly  
This comment doesn't even deserve a proper response.

White people are 8% of the world population. White males are about half of that. So either prove less than 4% of bitcoin users are white males or admit you're full of BS.

I agree, maybe at first it was a white currency but it sure is not that now. China controls most of the exchanges and has the investment money to blow bitcoins out of the sky in value. And dude, I'm a Native American and I use bitcoin, what are you talking only white people use bitcoin. Really?

[bryant.coleman]

Heterosexual, middle class or higher white males are disproportionally represented in the demographics of bitcoin users. Bitcoin only serves to uphold the current kyriarchal socioeconomic structures by making sure the privileged become more privileged.

Merit rules. If Bitcoin is the answer to political correctness.. then I'll encourage others to use it.

(BTW... I am not White, and I am not middle class. I am Asian and I am lower-middle class).

[lm2f]

It's inherently classist. Only those with access to moderately high levels of technology can spend or receive it. Only those with access to exceedingly high levels of technology can "mine" it. Heterosexual, middle class or higher white males are disproportionally represented in the demographics of bitcoin users. Bitcoin only serves to uphold the current kyriarchal socioeconomic structures by making sure the privileged become more privileged.

And it's a terrible idea. You spend more on your parents' electricity bill and replacing burnt out GPUs that your parents buy for christmas and birthdays than you actually theoretically make.

Bitcoins are basically just this weird attempt by lolbertarian children to make their own currency and play stock market and dodge taxes.

SRS scum detected. Added to ignore list.

It sickens me to see that you disgusting excuses for human beings have spread to bitcointalk. I've witnessed your sad attempts at suppressing free-speech all over the internet. You cannot suppress the free currency.

Go back to your clan of ugly, hairy, women; your shilling doesn't work here.

Fedora on our heads, buttcoins in our wallet, freeze peaches in our hearts, all topped off by a touch of casual misogyny. Behold, your typical bitcoin user.

[RoadToHell]

Fedora on our heads, buttcoins in our wallet, freeze peaches in our hearts, all topped off by a touch of casual misogyny. Behold, your typical bitcoin user.

I suppose it is asking too much of you to extend your boycott to the bitcointalk forum.  But please consider it.