2013-11-18: Wired: You can't beat politics with technology

[oakpacific]

You can't beat technology with politics.

[1714261562]

1714261562

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

You can't beat technology with politics.

And no matter how hard they might try, they won't be able to beat math with politics, either...

The Indiana Pi Bill is the popular name for bill #246 of the 1897 sitting of the Indiana General Assembly, one of the most famous attempts to establish mathematical truth by legislative fiat. Despite that name, the main result claimed by the bill is a method to square the circle, rather than to establish a certain value for the mathematical constant π (pi), the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. However, the bill does contain text that appears to dictate various incorrect values of π, such as 3.2 (π = 3.14159265...).

The bill never became law, due to the intervention of a mathematics professor who happened to be present in the legislature.

The impossibility of squaring the circle using only compass and straightedge, suspected since ancient times, was rigorously proven in 1882 by Ferdinand von Lindemann. Better approximations of π than those inferred from the bill have been known since ancient times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

[TraderTimm]

Well, seeing how Mike Hearn has deleted my previous post about his back-bending "discussions" about certain topics, perhaps this one will survive the Hearninator's "DEL" key.

You can use technology to surpass and route around politics. The ones claiming otherwise are either co-opted already, or have insufficient capacity to understand that rule of law and politics are formed by the citizens themselves. We are not beholden to any given system, rather, the system is supposed to conform to what the public wants.

When it doesn't, that's where things get messy. So by suggesting that we just "take it" and not try to achieve precisely what we want to, all I can hear is someone making excuses because they're too deeply dependent on the system in general. That will always disqualify you in my book, because it means you didn't have any principles worth standing up for to begin with, since you're so eager to cede them to political pressure.

So, if you can take the truth - let this post stand. If you can't - delete it like the others Mike, and I'll make sure people know that you did.

Your choice.

[Mike Hearn]

Which post are you talking about? I didn't delete any posts in this thread. It's not even self moderated.

[djalexr]

You can use technology to surpass and route around politics.

To say otherwise is a pretty defeatist attitude that goes against historical precedent

[westkybitcoins]

Sunde: You can't beat politics with technology

Bitcoin: Challenge accepted.

Yup. You'll just have to pardon us for continuing to opt out of the system and to resist it through all peaceful means possible, including technologically.

Think it's useless? Think it's dumb and won't work? Think it's immature? Too bad. It's still going to continue.

Must be tough to not be able to get others to ignore the gun in the room... especially as they actively seek means to neutralize it. Tough indeed.

[jbreher]

The "Pirate" movement is a bit bizarre really, there's a bit much of a contradiction in a political party for rebels of the status quo. Pirates don't vote!

My understanding of actual pirate culture (meager though it be) is that most pirate communities were strictly democratic. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?

The part of pirating where they invade another ship seems a little undemocratic from the point of view of the crew and charterer of said ship. Don't know if that surpasses the burden of proof for evidence.... although that is also the working definition of "pirate"

So the United States, by virtue of pillaging (e.g.) Iraq, is not a democratic republic?

ETA: In case my point is lost, invading societies _never_ invite the invaded societies to vote. Accordingly, I thought your 'Pirates don't vote' comment to be rather nonsensical in this context.

Also, while I am neither very familiar with the Pirate Party (some study of their principles notwithstanding), it seems to me that they are trying to subvert the current political order of the society in which they live. I somehow doubt the Pirate Party has invited the entire Swedish electorate to set the principles of the party itself.

[Badonkadonk]

The "Pirate" movement is a bit bizarre really, there's a bit much of a contradiction in a political party for rebels of the status quo. Pirates don't vote!

did anyone say pirate party? rawr!

[Carlton Banks]

The "Pirate" movement is a bit bizarre really, there's a bit much of a contradiction in a political party for rebels of the status quo. Pirates don't vote!

My understanding of actual pirate culture (meager though it be) is that most pirate communities were strictly democratic. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?

The part of pirating where they invade another ship seems a little undemocratic from the point of view of the crew and charterer of said ship. Don't know if that surpasses the burden of proof for evidence.... although that is also the working definition of "pirate"

So the United States, by virtue of pillaging (e.g.) Iraq, is not a democratic republic?

Yeah, cos the USA invaded the Iraq with the direct help of the whole population of the country. And they all sailed to Iraq on a pirates galleon. No.

Also, while I am neither very familiar with the Pirate Party (some study of their principles notwithstanding), it seems to me that they are trying to subvert the current political order of the society in which they live. I somehow doubt the Pirate Party has invited the entire Swedish electorate to set the principles of the party itself.

"Fight the system from within"? I've heard and seen examples of that before, and it's rarely not BS

[TraderTimm]

Which post are you talking about? I didn't delete any posts in this thread. It's not even self moderated.

Someone did, here's the timestamp: Deleted Post « Sent to: TraderTimm on: November 18, 2013, 07:23:07 PM »

If you didn't - fine, I still stand by what I've said concerning politics and technology.

[Mike Hearn]

Wasn't me!