transaction that took too long, RESOLVED, thanks to everyobody for the support.

[btcfre@k]

look at my transaction this is insane https://blockchain.info/address/1JvECPeTecKrenxQchJxQ6pjw5C5eRFDt1  12h of waiting .this is the  kind of thing that will kill bitcoin,how can you possibly wait for 12h for a transaction to be confirmed?

[1714308250]

1714308250

[1714308250]

1714308250

[1714308250]

1714308250

[1714308250]

1714308250

[1714308250]

1714308250

[11ams]

Pay the transaction fee?

[btcfre@k]

i use blockchain..

[jojo69]

pay fee or don't get mined...simple as that

[SaltySpitoon]

i use blockchain..

You still have to pay a transaction fee. Its in the settings.

[Stake]

There must be some incentive for the miner, especially when they are no longer receiving block rewards.

[btcfre@k]

right..now i cant pay fees after so i just have to wait...how much times

[SaltySpitoon]

right..now i cant pay fees after so i just have to wait...how much times

No saying really, I've accidentally sent transactions with no fees that were confirmed in 20 minutes, and I've had some that took 3+ days. I've also heard of it taking near a week, however not in my limited experience.

[btcfre@k]

i use blockchain..

You still have to pay a transaction fee. Its in the settings.

right i see it now..i used to pay with mtgox there was a little box to tick...ok now i see .. my btc will come in 19 months so..sadness

[zendantom]

Your transaction has fee, but it uses unconfirmed input. Send coins only after you get 1st confirmation from your deposit

[jojo69]

somebody correct me if I'm wrong, as I understand it there are 6 transactions/second make the blockchain, the miners will, of course, prioritize inclusion of paying traffic and a backlog of moocher transactions develops.  Occasionally there is a lull in transaction activity and some moochers make it into the chain

[btcfre@k]

this is bad . i sell bitcoin for ukash...i transfered my two btc on mtgox now im 0 on blockchain..very bad...i cant take any ukash then..

[btcfre@k]

i cant setup somethin on blockchain to have the fees automaticly deducted from btc i send?because i do too many transaction per day

[DeathAndTaxes]

somebody correct me if I'm wrong, as I understand it there are 6 transactions/second make the blockchain, the miners will, of course, prioritize inclusion of paying traffic and a backlog of moocher transactions develops.  Occasionally there is a lull in transaction activity and some moochers make it into the chain

Max block size is 1MB that is ~2,500 average sized tx or 4 tps (7 tps would require smaller as in size not value txs).  However miners aren't mining blocks anywhere close to the 1MB limit.

Average block size is 100KB to 200KB (~250 to 500 txs) or a mere 0.4 to 0.8 tps.  Miners are simply choosing to mine smaller blocks.

Still in general you are right.  Most miners devote a small amount of space for free transactions (default is 27KB or ~60 tx per block).  Anything beyond that waits for the next block.  If there are 3000 free tx ahead of you and only 60 make it into a block you are looking for 50 or so blocks before inclusion.  Free tx are ranked by priority so if you have a lower priority you can simply keep falling int the queue as newer higher priority tx are included in a block.

[jojo69]

Thanks for the clarification D&T

so the 6 (or you say 7) tps is a theoretical limit without a hard fork to increase blocksize and we aren't there yet

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

Am I reading it right, or OP tried to double spend according to blockchain.info. There is one unconfirmed input, and if you look at the output of it, it was already spent. Of course it is very likely that I am just not reading it right, but if I am, the transaction will never confirm as one of the inputs was already spent.

[btcfre@k]

Am I reading it right, or OP tried to double spend according to blockchain.info. There is one unconfirmed input, and if you look at the output of it, it was already spent. Of course it is very likely that I am just not reading it right, but if I am, the transaction will never confirm as one of the inputs was already spent.

wait you mean those bitcoin are lost?

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

Am I reading it right, or OP tried to double spend according to blockchain.info. There is one unconfirmed input, and if you look at the output of it, it was already spent. Of course it is very likely that I am just not reading it right, but if I am, the transaction will never confirm as one of the inputs was already spent.

wait you mean those bitcoin are lost?

I figured out your problem. Miners are not accepting your transaction due to address re-use.

Read here why https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334316.0. That or, because you didn't add a fee.

[btcfre@k]

i cant do anything?

[Rez]

this is the  kind of thing that will kill bitcoin

You mean selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee? Nah, it'll just (hopefully) weed out selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Thanks for the clarification D&T

so the 6 (or you say 7) tps is a theoretical limit without a hard fork to increase blocksize and we aren't there yet

Yes I think 6 or 7 overstates it though.  The actual limit is 1MB.  Average tx is ~400 bytes so that is 1000 KB /0.4 = 2500 tx per block.   600 seconds per block; 2500 / 600 = 4.2 tps.

Still we are running roughly 10% of that right now.

[btcfre@k]

this is the  kind of thing that will kill bitcoin

You mean selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee? Nah, it'll just (hopefully) weed out selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee.

its been more than a year that use mtgox and pay fees ,i changed to blockchain a month ago.stop spittin hatered

[jojo69]

yeah, lighten up, he just screwed up

I doubt your coins are gone OP, but it might take a while to clear up, hopefully someone can clarify that

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

yeah, lighten up, he just screwed up

I doubt your coins are gone OP, but it might take a while to clear up, hopefully someone can clarify that

Maybe, maybe not. It's luke that is filtering address re-use, and maybe other miners as well.

[jojo69]

yeah, I saw where he and eleuthria were kind of arguing over that, BTCGuild is NOT filtering at this time

[DeathAndTaxes]

yeah, lighten up, he just screwed up

I doubt your coins are gone OP, but it might take a while to clear up, hopefully someone can clarify that

Maybe, maybe not. It's luke that is filtering address re-use, and maybe other miners as well.

Come on use some logic.  There are 6 blocks per hour.  OP reports it has been 12 hours that is 72 blocks.  Lets be generous and say 20% of those are filtering that is ~60 blocks mined by miners who are not filtering.  Still think it is due to filtering? 

Also the filtering simply limits the OP to one re-use tx from the same address per block. Does the OP have 72 re-use txs in the last 12 hours?
Still think it is due to filtering? 

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

yeah, lighten up, he just screwed up

I doubt your coins are gone OP, but it might take a while to clear up, hopefully someone can clarify that

Maybe, maybe not. It's luke that is filtering address re-use, and maybe other miners as well.

Come on use some logic.  There are 6 blocks per hour.  OP reports it has been 12 hours that is 72 blocks.  Lets be generous and say 20% of those are filtering that is ~60 blocks mined by miners who are not filtering.  Still think it is due to filtering? 

Also the filtering simply limits the OP to one re-use tx from the same address per block. Does the OP have 72 re-use txs in the last 12 hours?
Still think it is due to filtering? 

Maybe not, but luke was usually the generous miner, allowing transactions without fees, even small ones. But he filtered OP's transaction, that leaves with the rest of the players, who are probably not including due to the fee not being there.

[Rez]

this is the  kind of thing that will kill bitcoin

You mean selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee? Nah, it'll just (hopefully) weed out selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee.

its been more than a year that use mtgox and pay fees ,i changed to blockchain a month ago.stop spittin hatered

Then you should know the importance of making sure a transaction fee is included.

[DeathAndTaxes]

yeah, lighten up, he just screwed up

I doubt your coins are gone OP, but it might take a while to clear up, hopefully someone can clarify that

Maybe, maybe not. It's luke that is filtering address re-use, and maybe other miners as well.

Come on use some logic.  There are 6 blocks per hour.  OP reports it has been 12 hours that is 72 blocks.  Lets be generous and say 20% of those are filtering that is ~60 blocks mined by miners who are not filtering.  Still think it is due to filtering? 

Also the filtering simply limits the OP to one re-use tx from the same address per block. Does the OP have 72 re-use txs in the last 12 hours?
Still think it is due to filtering? 

Maybe not, but luke was usually the generous miner, allowing transactions without fees, even small ones. But he filtered OP's transaction, that leaves with the rest of the players, who are probably not including due to the fee not being there.

Well no the filtering merely limits it to 1 tx per block. So the OP could have had 12+ tx go through just on Luke's pool in the last 12 hours.   Once again still think it is due to filtering?  The answer is no unless you want to spread FUD in face of obvious logic.

[bbit]

Nobody is spending BTC that is the issue that I think will kill it! 

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

yeah, lighten up, he just screwed up

I doubt your coins are gone OP, but it might take a while to clear up, hopefully someone can clarify that

Maybe, maybe not. It's luke that is filtering address re-use, and maybe other miners as well.

Come on use some logic.  There are 6 blocks per hour.  OP reports it has been 12 hours that is 72 blocks.  Lets be generous and say 20% of those are filtering that is ~60 blocks mined by miners who are not filtering.  Still think it is due to filtering? 

Also the filtering simply limits the OP to one re-use tx from the same address per block. Does the OP have 72 re-use txs in the last 12 hours?
Still think it is due to filtering? 

Maybe not, but luke was usually the generous miner, allowing transactions without fees, even small ones. But he filtered OP's transaction, that leaves with the rest of the players, who are probably not including due to the fee not being there.

Well no the filtering merely limits it to 1 tx per block. So the OP could have had 12+ tx go through just on Luke's pool in the last 12 hours.   Once again still think it is due to filtering?  The answer is no unless you want to spread FUD in face of obvious logic.

It's quite possible luke changed the rules on his pool. He is free to do whatever he wants without letting us know, so there you have it.

[btcfre@k]

this is getting to technical .will the bitcoin comes to the destination adress yes or no?and if no are the y lost?

[lindatess]

A lot of old timers are used to sending transactions fee free. That's going to be a problem. Furthermore, the whole idea of using bitcoin is for reduced transaction fees. Why wouldn't people use something else instead? Well, they are, for anyone who has been living under a rock.  PerfectMoney, SolidTrustPay, Payza, EGOPay, Paypal, Western Union and more.

If you think it will go mainstream, think again, 1 million transactions a day. The block size would be huge. It's going to break something along the way. Then the miners will eventually end up with another problem, "too big a blockchain to fit an average HDD".

Western Union conducts 2.5 million transactions a day. According to the blockchain size the maximum transactions per day should be 360000. So shouldn't we go back and look at this chart and revalue bitcoin as $100 as it can only capture 10x less market share?.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/11/17/bitcoin-bubble-or-value.aspx

$100 price target sounds about right considering it can't capture the market.

Some people state that consider the transaction fees on bitcoin are 10x less than traditional means. This means they can only earn 10x less revenue. The price target is now $10. These are good valuation methods proven by "value investors" such as Warren Buffet, undoubtedly also fool.com.

Anyway, back to the fees issue:

How would you know what to price the transaction fee at if it keeps changing? Maybe someone can create a calculator but it's going to have to happen in real-time. The idea of buying a 8 yuan beer with a bitcoin is going to get really expensive especially if you have to add on a transaction fee. I wonder how that business is coping, it was on the news recently if anyone remembers. Will the business owners wait 9 hours to receive their money when it takes less than a minute to chug down a beer?

[Rez]

Nobody is spending BTC that is the issue that I think will kill it! 

Bitcoin is still "in beta", though.

The volatility will continue to be an issue.

[Rez]

this is getting to technical .will the bitcoin comes to the destination adress yes or no?and if no are the y lost?

You'll probably get them eventually. "When" is the question.

[bbit]

Nobody is spending BTC that is the issue that I think will kill it! 

Bitcoin is still "in beta", though.

The volatility will continue to be an issue.

Agree. There would be no reason to spend Bitcoins if its worth $900 dollars one day and $1,500 another.

[jojo69]

I think offchain transaction aggregators will spring up to solve the blocksize issue and deal with small transactions

for buying houses/cars/boats, yeah, you pay your fee and go directly on the chain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZp7UGgBR0I

[BurtW]

Your transactions:

https://blockchain.info/tx/b232a1dded76bed3c73bb5b04ac74ad9a052add559b65d881d9fa9ac5d55388c

NO FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    7 hours (queue position 2047)

https://blockchain.info/tx/cb8a0828b5683112b343a9b6caf5078e58f01aa2083f1886db692ca147da6ea4

0.0002 FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    22 hours (queue position 3896) AND spending an unconfirmed input

https://blockchain.info/tx/b1c20b947fb4b6c8104c206eb8818922c7efeff93c142157b4e2d399150ff7e7

0.0001 FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    24 hours (queue position 3382) AND spending an unconfirmed input

https://blockchain.info/tx/c590fc8729bc11f92996a6d9089cbe090847a5167a69cbc0055e024af26e0de3

0.0001 FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    26 hours (queue position 3405) AND spending an unconfirmed input

https://blockchain.info/tx/1a15d133a21436127d530308b5f2c133a9013b030481d957abfeb60a9f4b8d84

0.0001 FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    31 hours (queue position 3423) AND spending an unconfirmed input

The first transaction in this mess was sent with no fee so it keeps getting pushed out of the blocks.  The other transactions appear to depend on the first one.  Eventually the first transaction will be done and then the rest should follow.

[btcfre@k]

so i should not use this adress anymore?

[DeathAndTaxes]

so i should not use this adress anymore?

No you need to stop spending unconfirmed outputs.  The tx won't confirm until the unconfirmed outputs it use are confirmed.

[BurtW]

so i should not use this adress anymore?

I would suggest not using it until it gets cleared up - that is for sure.

[btcfre@k]

so i should not use this adress anymore?

No you need to stop spending unconfirmed outputs.  The tx won't confirm until the unconfirmed outputs it use are confirmed.

ok..

[jojo69]

sorry man, tough way to learn

[btcfre@k]

sadness..when someone will ask me "how i can see your legit" i used to proudly send my btc adress ..well that sucks

[btcfre@k]

sorry man, tough way to learn

i guess it is.

[oblongmeteor]

Your transactions:

https://blockchain.info/tx/b232a1dded76bed3c73bb5b04ac74ad9a052add559b65d881d9fa9ac5d55388c

Estimated Confirmation Time    7 hours (queue position 2047)

[...]

I've raised similar issues here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339802.0 - If my wallet says a fee is required, I don't sit there and think "hmm, should I include a larger fee?". I pay the 0.0001 BTC / kb as required. I don't pay more because I've nothing to benchmark the benefits against. In addition, this application of market forces is going to introduce greed and favoritism (already it is it seems) amongst miners. A race to the bottom as more miners ratchet up the cost of transacting Bitcoins. You can't easily choose a mining pool (that I'm aware of) to force your transaction through and if you could this would introduce a whole new set of problems (what if your chosen pool doesn't "strike it lucky for 20 blocks?").  

This is a real and immediate scalability concern for Bitcoin as a technology. The core dev's need to pull their fingers out and propose something otherwise confidence is going to start collapsing like a badly built house of cards...

Everyone benefits from Bitcoin apprecitiating in value as a function of its usability and ubiquity, these delays and the infighting over address reuse because of privacy concerns etc, serve only to weaken the technology and stunt its adoption.

[DeathAndTaxes]

This isn't a "I paid the default fee but it still wasn't enough for those greedy miners" issue.   Paying tx seem to be confirmed relatively quickly.  Comparing the memory pool to the new blocks miners seem to be including nearly all paying tx in each block.  Sometimes in peak volume there are too many but they quickly roll over to the next block.

No this instance is a difference sort of issue.  Some of OP tx have no fee and some have unconfirmed outputs using inputs.   Neither are going to be processed quickly.  The OP just has to wait.  

For those that want a painless experience I recommend setting your wallet to pay the min fee (0.1 mBTC per KB) on ALL txs even those which "can" be sent free.  It will ensure timely processing for a few pennies.  Had about 80+ tx in the last couple days.  Not a single one was delayed more than 1 block or so.

Still this an area which the clients can use some work.  The client should look at the # of unconfirmed tx (free and paying) and the recent block sizes to give users a better estimate.  If the client warns tx volume is high and not paying a fee may result in delayed processing potentially for hours or days and a user clicks [I am a cheap bastard send it anyways] well at least the user knows what to expect.

[BurtW]

In this updated data (he did another transaction since my posting above, and I have shown the fees on each transaction):

https://blockchain.info/tx/b232a1dded76bed3c73bb5b04ac74ad9a052add559b65d881d9fa9ac5d55388c
NO FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    7 hours (queue position 2047)

https://blockchain.info/tx/cb8a0828b5683112b343a9b6caf5078e58f01aa2083f1886db692ca147da6ea4
0.0002 FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    22 hours (queue position 3896) AND spending an unconfirmed input

https://blockchain.info/tx/b1c20b947fb4b6c8104c206eb8818922c7efeff93c142157b4e2d399150ff7e7
0.0001 FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    24 hours (queue position 3382) AND spending an unconfirmed input

https://blockchain.info/tx/c590fc8729bc11f92996a6d9089cbe090847a5167a69cbc0055e024af26e0de3
0.0001 FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    26 hours (queue position 3405) AND spending an unconfirmed input

https://blockchain.info/tx/1a15d133a21436127d530308b5f2c133a9013b030481d957abfeb60a9f4b8d84
0.0001 FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    31 hours (queue position 3423) AND spending an unconfirmed input

https://blockchain.info/tx/6d0a4e084a87c96218a374abddd7b8612583d21cab81a9a600fe9631bf9b73f0
0.0001 FEE, Estimated Confirmation Time    38 hours (queue position 4677) AND spending an unconfirmed input

The first transaction in this mess was sent with no fee so it keeps getting pushed out of the blocks - this was done by the wallet, blockchain.info.  The other transactions all depend on change from the one before them.  This is also the "fault" of the wallet so to speak as blockchain.info allows you to do this.  Note that all the subsequent transactions do have fees so once the first one goes through all the others should fall in pretty short order.  This should be brought up in the blockchain.info thread.

If the first transaction in this chain would have had a fee then we would not have this thread.

[btcfre@k]

the  main idea of bitcoin at the first was simplicity...and no speculation...funny times

[oblongmeteor]

This isn't a I paid the default fee but it wasn't enough issue.   Paying tx seem to be confirmed relatively quickly.  

Some of OP tx have no fee and some have unconfirmed outputs using inputs.   Neither are going to be processed quickly.  The OP just has to wait.  I have my wallet set at default fee for all tx (even those which can be sent free). Had about 80+ tx in the last couple days.  Not a single one was delayed more than 1 block or so.

With respect, I think you're missing the point. In the scenario you've indicated the likely reason the transaction isn't confirming is because one input in the chain didn't include a fee. It likely didn't include a fee because it didn't need to include a fee as far as the client was concerned (age of inputs, size etc met the criterion required for inclusion). That one output has been used as an input in a subsequent transaction (I've experienced this myself, see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339709.0). As a consequence, even if child, grandchild etc transactions include a fee, they will not be processed until the 0 FEE ancestor input is confirmed. You can be waiting 24+ hours for this...

Users use Bitcoin - they don't dig into the API or form a raw transaction manually to ensure they don't spend unconfirmed outputs and they take the software at it's word (I'm talking stock Bitcoin Client here) when it doesn't force them to pay a fee.

It is a problem, maybe not for veterans like yourself, but for the average user it's a real usability issue. And I'd also add Miners are responsible for this situation. Greed is making them ignore transactions that don't include a fee and the whole network is suffering as a result. 

[DeathAndTaxes]

the  main idea of bitcoin at the first was simplicity...and no speculation...funny times

Here is simplicity.  Pay the min fee (0.1 mBTC) on all tx, always.   I can't get any simpler than that. As far as no speculation.  Care to point to where Satoshi said that.   Humans have speculated on just about everything that has ever existed and was publicly traded.  Bitcoin isn't going to change human nature.

[btcfre@k]

the  main idea of bitcoin at the first was simplicity...and no speculation...funny times

Here is simplicity.  Pay the min fee (0.1 mBTC) on all tx, always.   I can't get any simpler than that. As far as no speculation.  Care to point to where Satoshi said that.   Humans have speculated on just about everything that has ever existed and was publicly traded.  Bitcoin isn't going to change human nature.

i thought we agreed on the fact that i screwed up.i got the lessons brother.

[DeathAndTaxes]

This isn't a I paid the default fee but it wasn't enough issue.   Paying tx seem to be confirmed relatively quickly. 

Some of OP tx have no fee and some have unconfirmed outputs using inputs.   Neither are going to be processed quickly.  The OP just has to wait.  I have my wallet set at default fee for all tx (even those which can be sent free). Had about 80+ tx in the last couple days.  Not a single one was delayed more than 1 block or so.

With respect, I think you're missing the point. In the scenario you've indicated the likely reason the transaction isn't confirming is because one input in the chain didn't include a fee. It likely didn't include a fee because it didn't need to include a fee as far as the client was concerned (age of inputs, size etc met the criterion required for inclusion). That one output has been used as an input in a subsequent transaction (I've experienced this myself, see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339709.0). As a consequence, even if child, grandchild etc transactions include a fee, they will not be processed until the 0 FEE ancestor input is confirmed. You can be waiting 24+ hours for this...

Users use Bitcoin - they don't dig into the API or form a raw transaction manually to ensure they don't spend unconfirmed outputs and they take the software at it's word (I'm talking stock Bitcoin Client here) when it doesn't force them to pay a fee.

It is a problem, maybe not for veterans like yourself, but for the average user it's a real usability issue.

Agreed.  I would strongly recommend paying the min fee on ALL transactions.  Most wallets have the option to set a default fee.  Set it to 0.1 mBTC and be done with it.  Piuk indicated he will be improving blockchain wallet as the reality is tx volume is higher now and assumming a tx can get away with no fee just because it is high priority is no longer a good assumption.  It WAS a good assumption in the past but it needs to change.

Clients do need to get smarter.  I updated my post prior to seeing your response so we have some agreement on that.    Remember Bitcoin is in beta and it is an experiment.

As a practical peice of advice to anyone reading.

Set your client to pay the min fee (0.1 mBTC per KB) for all transactions.   Trying to send some free tx is bound to be a penny wise and pound foolish scenario.

[btcfre@k]

i didnt find out how to set the fees automaticly deducted on blockchain

[oblongmeteor]

Agreed.  I would strongly recommend paying the min fee on ALL transactions.  Most wallets have the option to set a default fee.  Set it to 0.1 mBTC and be done with it.  Piuk indicated he will be improving blockchain wallet as the reality is tx volume is higher now and assumming a tx can get away with no fee just because it is high priority is no longer a good assumption.  It WAS a good assumption in the past but it needs to change.

Clients do need to get smarter.  I updated my post prior to seeing your response so we have some agreement on that.    Remember Bitcoin is in beta and it is an experiment.

As a practical peice of advice to anyone reading.

Set your client to pay the min fee (0.1 mBTC per KB) for all transactions.   Trying to send some free tx is bound to be a penny wise and pound foolish scenario.

...this leads to another problem though. Cost. I'll quote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339802.0:

"according to CoinMill - the cost of 1 BTC is currently 641.84 USD and a transaction fee of 0.0001 BTC is 0.06 USD (6 cents). 0.0005 (the old fee) is 30 cents. As Bitcoin appreciates (if it does), the cost of transactions relative to the value of a Bitcoin grows substantially.

This makes it pretty uneconomical for any merchant to engage in using Bitcoin as a currency as A) they'll be waiting ages for their transaction to confirm if the user incorrectly attaches an 'unacceptable' fee and B) the cost of moving BTC is likely to rapidly meet or exceed that of preexisting payment methods such as ACH, Debit and eventually Credit cards... and in the case of the latter two it doesn't generally take 24-48 hours to even acknowledge your transaction exists."

Miners want to have their cake and eat it. They want the reward from mining a block as well as only cherry picking the transactions that add additional gravy. This doesn't work for a payment network. If you want to move value around, there needs to be some reasonable expectation that the process will complete in a timely manner without a risk of significant delays. You can't "add a bit on" if you mess up and anyone downstream who includes your unconfirmed output is going to screw their transaction confirmation times over...

[DeathAndTaxes]

i didnt find out how to set the fees automaticly deducted on blockchain

Wallet Home > Account Settings > General > Default Fee Policy

[DeathAndTaxes]

i didnt find out how to set the fees automaticly deducted on blockchain

There is the following choice:

Generous - Fees will be set to ensure transactions are high priority (0.001 BTC Base Fee).

But this will be $0.60 per transaction.

So I suggest that during the review of the transaction before you send it make sure it has the 0.0001 BTC fee for now.

As others have stated a fix to this issue may be in the works.

Some needs to have piuk update that 1 mBTC is just stupid.  The default was dropped to 0.1 mBTC a while ago.  Not having an option for 0.1 mBTC for all tx is just a bad bad oversight.

[BurtW]

i didnt find out how to set the fees automaticly deducted on blockchain

Wallet Home > Account Settings > General > Default Fee Policy

Just looked and there is only the following choice (for always sending a fee):

Generous - Fees will be set to ensure transactions are high priority (0.001 BTC Base Fee).

But this will be $0.60 per transaction.

So I suggest that during the review of the transaction before you send it make sure it has the 0.0001 BTC fee for now.

As others have stated a fix to this issue may be in the works.

[btcfre@k]

i didnt find out how to set the fees automaticly deducted on blockchain

Wallet Home > Account Settings > General > Default Fee Policy

oh thanks man,i put generous fees..i really dont care about fees ,i know i messed up but it wasnt my intention..to busy processing orders..thats all..i put generous fees.now i learned my lesson..pain in the ass.but i learned

[romerun]

merchants eventually should be off-chain, btc eventually will only be for large amount transfer replacing bank wiring etc. If I have it right, the current number of tx that btc can handle is 7 tx pec sec, coffee purchase transaction pry shouldn't be on the precious blockchain space.

[fubly]

who reveive the transaction fee?

People who mine the bitcoins or who?

Sorry for stupid question.

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

who reveive the transaction fee?

People who mine the bitcoins or who?

Sorry for stupid question.

The fees go to the miners.

[jojo69]

who reveive the transaction fee?

People who mine the bitcoins or who?

Sorry for stupid question.

yes, the miners, remember that the block reward decreases over time, eventually the TX fees will be the only pay the miners get

[DeathAndTaxes]

Agreed.  I would strongly recommend paying the min fee on ALL transactions.  Most wallets have the option to set a default fee.  Set it to 0.1 mBTC and be done with it.  Piuk indicated he will be improving blockchain wallet as the reality is tx volume is higher now and assumming a tx can get away with no fee just because it is high priority is no longer a good assumption.  It WAS a good assumption in the past but it needs to change.

Clients do need to get smarter.  I updated my post prior to seeing your response so we have some agreement on that.    Remember Bitcoin is in beta and it is an experiment.

As a practical peice of advice to anyone reading.

Set your client to pay the min fee (0.1 mBTC per KB) for all transactions.   Trying to send some free tx is bound to be a penny wise and pound foolish scenario.

...this leads to another problem though. Cost. I'll quote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339802.0:

"according to CoinMill - the cost of 1 BTC is currently 641.84 USD and a transaction fee of 0.0001 BTC is 0.06 USD (6 cents). 0.0005 (the old fee) is 30 cents. As Bitcoin appreciates (if it does), the cost of transactions relative to the value of a Bitcoin grows substantially.

This makes it pretty uneconomical for any merchant to engage in using Bitcoin as a currency as A) they'll be waiting ages for their transaction to confirm if the user incorrectly attaches an 'unacceptable' fee and B) the cost of moving BTC is likely to rapidly meet or exceed that of preexisting payment methods such as ACH, Debit and eventually Credit cards... and in the case of the latter two it doesn't generally take 24-48 hours to even acknowledge your transaction exists."

Miners want to have their cake and eat it. They want the reward from mining a block as well as only cherry picking the transactions that add additional gravy. This doesn't work for a payment network. If you want to move value around, there needs to be some reasonable expectation that the process will complete in a timely manner without a risk of significant delays. You can't "add a bit on" if you mess up and anyone downstream who includes your unconfirmed output is going to screw their transaction confirmation times over...

The min fee has been reduced 4 times since the inception of Bitcoin from 10 mBTC to 1 mBTC to 0.5 mBTC to 0.1mBTC.  Miners can always require a higher fee but to date they really haven't.

If the exchange rate keeps rising it will probably be lowered again.  In fiat terms is has ranged from ~1 cent to ~10 cents and usually when it gets to the high end the min fee gets cut.

[jojo69]

its not like miners are really that profitable these days...a little cake would be nice

[btcfre@k]

guys i received my bitcoins.i want to says thank you very much for the support .this community is totally cool.thanks

[jojo69]

glad to hear it   

[niothor]

this is the  kind of thing that will kill bitcoin

You mean selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee? Nah, it'll just (hopefully) weed out selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee.

+1. He refused to pay 1 cent for transferring 1000 worth of dollars.

[btcfre@k]

this is the  kind of thing that will kill bitcoin

You mean selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee? Nah, it'll just (hopefully) weed out selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee.

+1. He refused to pay 1 cent for transferring 1000 worth of dollars.

READ WHAT I WROTE DONT JUDGE TOO FAST

[niothor]

this is the  kind of thing that will kill bitcoin

You mean selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee? Nah, it'll just (hopefully) weed out selfish people who refuse to pay a four-penny transaction fee.

+1. He refused to pay 1 cent for transferring 1000 worth of dollars.

READ WHAT I WROTE DONT JUDGE TOO FAST

Read it all again.
So , you mean people not sure what they are doing and not reading before doing something will kill bitcoin?

I'm sure a cabbage seller entering a bank and demanding to wire them to Japan will destroy the banking system.

[BurtW]

btcfre@k:

I think what niothor is trying to say it that you should probably change the title of your thread.  "thing that will kill bitcoin" is a bit inflamitory at this point, don't you think?

Perhaps you could come up with a new title now that things have worked out for you?

Burt

[niothor]

btcfre@k:

I think what niothor is trying to say it that you should probably change the title of your thread.  "thing that will kill bitcoin" is a bit inflamitory at this point, don't you think.

Perhaps you could come up with a new title now that things have worked out for you?

Burt

Yeah I could have said it in another way , but seriously , bitcoin is getting killed at a rate of 10 threads /day lately.

[BurtW]

I his defense I would have not come to his thread to help if he had not caught my eye with an interesting title.  There are only so many hours in a day I can spend here and I cannot read every thread.

But, the title should be changed now.

[btcfre@k]

I his defense I would have not come to his thread to help if he had not caught my eye with an interesting title.  There are only so many hours in a day I can spend here and I cannot read every thread.

But, the title should be changed now.

true

[btcfre@k]

done

[btcfre@k]

again and again thanks for everybodys helps .

[bucketofsocks]

I'm running Bitcoin-qt 0.8.4 on windows and I tried to send some bitcoin over 24 hours ago, it came up with a message about paying a fee of 0.0005 and I clicked yes but for some reason it only included 0.00006438 as the fee and now the transaction is stuck in limbo https://blockchain.info/tx/f1903e97d2c96e3bfb975dfa23a2c8de72c68df1e843db8c842a6c87bfdb32c9 is there anything I can do?

[jojo69]

wait

[DeathAndTaxes]

I'm running Bitcoin-qt 0.8.4 on windows and I tried to send some bitcoin over 24 hours ago, it came up with a message about paying a fee of 0.0005 and I clicked yes but for some reason it only included 0.00006438 as the fee and now the transaction is stuck in limbo https://blockchain.info/tx/f1903e97d2c96e3bfb975dfa23a2c8de72c68df1e843db8c842a6c87bfdb32c9 is there anything I can do?

First given the title of this thread you might want to create a new thread.  Technical support would be the appropriate forum.

Are you sure this is the tx you created?  Is 1CLsCcmoiYJiYm7feS3pkpE6Ea94EEA4M5 your address?  If so the simplest solution is just to wait.  The reason I asked is there is a downstream tx so wanted to make sure we are looking at the tx you created not the tx which funded the tx you created.

It that is your tx, it does appear it sent it without a fee.  Due to dust prevention the client will give the rounding error left over (below 5430 satoshis) when creating a tx to miners as a "fee" rather than create a dust output as change (which can't be spent) but 6438 is above the dust threshold so that is also confusing, I would expect instead to see 0 BTC as fee and the 6438 going to a change address.   If all that was to technical yes this tx has no effective fee, any fee less than 0.1 mBTC per KB (so 0.5 mBTC in this case) is viewed by default nodes as no fee.  It is strange the client would "ignore" the acceptance of the fee and even stranger it would send it at all because it appears to be a low priority tx and thus the "proper" fee of 0.5 mBTC would be mandatory to be relayed.

I got no explanation other than it is weird.

What client are you using?  If it is the QT client can you go to the debug window and type

Code:

getinfo

look for the line "paytxfee" what does it say?

[btcfre@k]

guys do you want me to lock thiss topic?

[bucketofsocks]

19:23:25

getinfo


19:23:25

{
"version" : 80400,
"protocolversion" : 70001,
"walletversion" : 60000,
"balance" : 0.03082213,
"blocks" : 270694,
"timeoffset" : 1,
"connections" : 81,
"proxy" : "",
"difficulty" : 609482679.88835454,
"testnet" : false,
"keypoololdest" : 1372280961,
"keypoolsize" : 101,
"paytxfee" : 0.00010000,
"errors" : ""
}