Here is the reason why the Chinese Communist Party is not stopping bitcoin.

[gabriella]

it is becoming widely known, especially among mainland chinese themselves, china will not able to advance past a manufacturing-based economy, due to complete lack of laws, moral, trust and copyrights.

that is why every one of the 1.3 billion chinese are doing everything they can to get foreign passports and move all their family and all their wealth out of china. this is especially apparent in all of china's politicans and rich people.

many finance professionals have come to realize china's economic growth will soon come to hit a wall, losing manufacturing strength to other cheap labor countries yet unable to advance to model based on exchange of services and knowledge.

the chinese communist party, with no legitimacy to rule china, fear above all else any deviation from its current grip - this is widely known and also very true.

therefore the ccp would really want to stop bitcoin, which is going to subvert the state's supremacy and control, right?

right, so why is the ccp not doing anything?

because, the ccp is a humongous millions-plus members dinosour bureaucracy, stuck in its old visions of the world circa u.s.s.r. 1980's.

for it to actually know about bitcoin, understand bitcoin, and actually do something about bitcoin is, my friend, like telling a 1980's kgb officer about twitter and how he should stop it because it would cause uprisings like the arab spring.

that is the reason the chinese communist party is currently not doing anything to stop chinese people from buying bitcoins. and it won't change for quite some time.

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[lindatess]

Why would they want to do it anyway?

The chinese already have qq coins. The chinese regard this as "wealth" with less volatility.

The price is going down because speculators are cashing out, not because of scaremongering.

[wmcleod]

Why would they want to do it anyway?

The chinese already have qq coins. The chinese regard this as "wealth" with less volatility.

The price is going down because speculators are cashing out, not because of scaremongering.

lol, speculators have nothing to do with any crash.  it's the big money that's causing crashes and causing rising.

[lindatess]

Why would they want to do it anyway?

The chinese already have qq coins. The chinese regard this as "wealth" with less volatility.

The price is going down because speculators are cashing out, not because of scaremongering.

lol, speculators have nothing to do with any crash.  it's the big money that's causing crashes and causing rising.

And what does big money do? It speculates. It goes into housing, gold, and other assets with a goal to seek a return.

What else do you think big money does? It doesn't just sit around... It goes and seeks opportunities, in finance terms, it seeks alpha.

Speculators are the market, big money is the market. It's like when Max Keiser lost millions of dollars because he was the market. Same thing, if we are all the market, then we are all part of the destruction of value.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40xyqt0DidY

Who else do you think the market is? It's us. It's no conspiracy theory. We are all speculating.

[AnonyMint]

I tend to agree the Chinese people need a new bubble to go into as their real-estate bubble may be coming to an end. And the large flaw of the Chinese is they love to hoard. They are known to count every penny like miser when they run a trading business.

So thus yes the ponzi bitCON fits them very well. Two peas in a pod.

But that doesn't mean China's government is sanctioning at some articles speculated. China can't lose control over Yuan FX too fast as their structural imbalances depend on it (read mpettis.com) and thus it will have to be managed. Expect China to step in and regulate when it reaches 15 - 25% of their cash economy as was case with QQ which they shutdown.

[vpitcher07]

Interesting point OP. I was kinda of wondering why the CCP hasn't done anything to "ban" bitcoin in China. The people of China really need to reform their government. Anything with the word communist in it is simply not good, even if it's by name only. I'm not saying our current elected officials here in the US are good, but it's better than the mess in China.

[lindatess]

I tend to agree the Chinese people need a new bubble to go into as their real-estate bubble may be coming to an end. And the large flaw of the Chinese is they love to hoard. They are known to count every penny like miser when they run a trading business.

So thus yes the ponzi bitCON fits them very well. Two peas in a pod.

But that doesn't mean China's government is sanctioning at some articles speculated. China can't lose control over Yuan FX too fast as their structural imbalances depend on it (read mpettis.com) and thus it will have to be managed. Expect China to step in and regulate when it reaches 15 - 25% of their cash economy as was case with QQ which they shutdown.

QQ hasn't been shutdown. It's gone off-market but it still retains a stable value.

But yes, China will most likely do the same with the cryptocurrencies.

[moni3z]

China doesn't care about bitcoin because they can't move trillions through it. To CPC it's pocket change right now.

[freedomno1]

Wrong they want to remove US hegemony over currency and are using bitcoin as the solution to holding more US DEBT

[AnonyMint]

Wrong they want to remove US hegemony over currency and are using bitcoin as the solution to holding more US DEBT

Nice delusion. You don't have a clue about relative size.

[freedomno1]

Wrong they want to remove US hegemony over currency and are using bitcoin as the solution to holding more US DEBT

Nice delusion. You don't have a clue about relative size.

Not quite true consider the growth of bitcoin if the Chinese invested now as the fact they can participate at a small marginal cost means that in the long run their position will be significant in the ecosystem. I don't see a logical reason why state TV would support bitcoin if that wasn't part of their strategy

[AnonyMint]

Wrong they want to remove US hegemony over currency and are using bitcoin as the solution to holding more US DEBT

Nice delusion. You don't have a clue about relative size.

Not quite true consider the growth of bitcoin if the Chinese invested now as the fact they can participate at a small marginal cost means that in the long run their position will be significant in the ecosystem. I don't see a logical reason why state TV would support bitcoin if that wasn't part of their strategy

Consider the mathematically unarguable fact that bitCON is a ponzi scheme, and then couple that with Armstrong agrees and the Chinese listen to him (he ran the "sovereign"* hedge fund for Japan at $3 trillion total for all in his global fund). Chinese taipans are not that stupid to fall for a ponzi scheme.

Please stop your silly delusion. Armstrong has written that China will not have the reserve currency before 2033. He has written that China will become the center of finance after that.

* Actually the largest corporations in Japan which is effectively the same as the government.

[freedomno1]

Wrong they want to remove US hegemony over currency and are using bitcoin as the solution to holding more US DEBT

Nice delusion. You don't have a clue about relative size.

Not quite true consider the growth of bitcoin if the Chinese invested now as the fact they can participate at a small marginal cost means that in the long run their position will be significant in the ecosystem. I don't see a logical reason why state TV would support bitcoin if that wasn't part of their strategy

Consider the mathematically unarguable fact that bitCON is a ponzi scheme, and then couple that with Armstrong agrees and the Chinese listen to him (he ran the "sovereign"* hedge fund for Japan at $3 trillion total for all in his global fund). Chinese taipans are not that stupid to fall for a ponzi scheme.

Please stop your silly delusion. Armstrong has written that China will not have the reserve currency before 2033. He has written that China will become the center of finance after that.

* Actually the largest corporations in Japan which is effectively the same as the government.

Aha but consider the fact that 42 is the answer to everything


Couple that with Schopenhauer who must be correct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Being_Right)

Plus
The recent discovery of bitcoin rising 42% this week
And we can undeniably prove that it is the meaning of life the universe and everything

[beetcoin]

Wrong they want to remove US hegemony over currency and are using bitcoin as the solution to holding more US DEBT

Nice delusion. You don't have a clue about relative size.

exactly.. right now, i'm willing to guess that BTC investors in china are primarily young males who have little or no experience with currency/asset exchange.. just like most of us in the U.S. when china's big hitters start swinging, then that statement might make more sense.

[Bboy360]

The Chinese government isn't really communist anymore.  You can't compare them to Russia.  Their leaders are very smart and the government is run pretty well.  You could argue it's a better system than the United States where companies pay lobbyists to get laws passed and our elected officials are usually rich kids growing up in politics.  I'm not here to argue which is better, but you can't say the Chinese government is stuck in the communist 70s or 80s.  They have a long way to go with human rights, but they're getting there. 

The Chinese government probably had very smart people looking into what they could do about bitcoins and since they can't shut it down like the last virtual currency that was equal to 13% of their economy.  If they shut down a virtual currency before, why would you think they don't care about it?

My guess is that they want to be the leaders in bitcoin and have their citizens be the largest shareholders.  From what I've heard, you can really only move $50k out of China without some penalties or whatever.  It does seems strange that a country that doesn't want people taking money out would embrace bitcoin.  I'm guessing that they think it would be a losing battle to fight it.

[AnonyMint]

My guess is that they want to be the leaders in bitcoin and have their citizens be the largest shareholders.

So you must disagree with my math that shows bitcoin is a ponzi scheme that will collapse to near 0 (after reaching a $trillions market cap first) and there is absolutely no way to avoid it (other than perhaps fractional reserve debasement with something like Ripple or an inflatacoin, altcoin). You probably didn't read the thread I linked to?

Why would they want their people to own something that will certainly be worth 0 in the future?

If they want to rule the future, the wisest would be to pretend they are allowing BTC, then let it run up and crash later so the all you males in the west are destroyed.

I've never understood why the goldbugs think China is their friend. Chinese upper-class are indifferent or hate us on a personal level (we have longer dicks and noses and we've been having all the fun at their expense). Try going to a high-class Chinese disco in Los Angeles, Hong Kong, or Beijing. If you are not well connected, you will be treated like a dog. I did. Of course that is a generalization and does not apply to all. And the middle and lower class don't hate westerners as far as I know.

The upper-ruling class want to win against you, not be your best pal. Be quite happy if you westerners are the slaves in the future.

The ruling class gets rich on the slow boat of leveraging their inside advantages in a huge economy. They aren't interested in speculations.

China is rising. Westerners are in their last desperate ponzi schemes. Going down.

I don't think China will win against our hitech industry just yet. But by 2033, we will see how much progress they can make. I rather expect the west will be the hitech leaders for many more decades. Yet most people in the USA are not in the hitech arena. How many of you all are programmers?

[AnonyMint]

Cross posting from the similar thread over in Economics subforum:

USA dies in a fiery ball and China shall rise victorious of the economic system. That might be our future.

a lot of fear mongers are saying that, but china is still way too behind the U.S. to take over.

As we are discussing in the similar thread topic over in Bitcoin Discussion subforum, this process of cyclical handoff from the west back to Asia will take 2 - 3 decades and the west won't fall all the way down, just as the UK has not been a bastion of poverty after the USA rose up.

Asia will rise because of high population and small government share of GDP, and its per-capita will probably still be lower than the USA if including all the poorer countries in Asia.

USA will become #1 oil and gas producers in world (passing Russia) soon.

[Bboy360]

My guess is that they want to be the leaders in bitcoin and have their citizens be the largest shareholders.

So you must disagree with my math that shows bitcoin is a ponzi scheme that will collapse to near 0 (after reaching a $trillions market cap first) and there is absolutely no way to avoid it (other than perhaps fractional reserve debasement with something like Ripple or an inflatacoin, altcoin). You probably didn't read the thread I linked to?

Why would they want their people to own something that will certainly be worth 0 in the future?

If they want to rule the future, the wisest would be to pretend they are allowing BTC, then let it run up and crash later so the all you males in the west are destroyed.

I've never understood why the goldbugs think China is their friend. Chinese upper-class are indifferent or hate us on a personal level (we have longer dicks and noses and we've been having all the fun at their expense). Try going to a high-class Chinese disco in Los Angeles, Hong Kong, or Beijing. If you are not well connected, you will be treated like a dog. I did. Of course that is a generalization and does not apply to all. And the middle and lower class don't hate westerners as far as I know.

The upper-ruling class want to win against you, not be your best pal. Be quite happy if you westerners are the slaves in the future.

The ruling class gets rich on the slow boat of leveraging their inside advantages in a huge economy. They aren't interested in speculations.

China is rising. Westerners are in their last desperate ponzi schemes. Going down.

I don't think China will win against our hitech industry just yet. But by 2033, we will see how much progress they can make. I rather expect the west will be the hitech leaders for many more decades. Yet most people in the USA are not in the hitech arena. How many of you all are programmers?

Your link, links to a bunch of other links, which I don't have the time to read.  I'm just going to assume the people the VCs hire who are investing millions in startup companies know more than you.  They could be wrong, but I'm placing my bets with them.
And to your other point, it's bet.  It's not going to crumble the US economy if bitcoins go down.  I don't think people are putting their life savings into it.

More chinese will have it the US people.
In these high class discos, money rules, I don't think race has anything to do with it.

Say if China took over the US in the future.  Not much would change anyway.  You'd probably be working at the same company, getting the same amount of money... maybe even taxed less.  I have friends that have moved to China for work, the big cities are not a bad place if you have a good job.

[AnonyMint]

See the cross-linked thread.

The entrepreneurs are moving in, doesn't mean the Communist Party agree. They let QQ grow until it his 13% of the cash market, then they took action.

I don't take issue with your other points. I am just saying don't think some Communist Party taipans are your friend. They are elite. Just like our elite. They are not your friend.

You should take the time to read my post about ponzi scheme. It will change your entire perspective on BitCON. Promise it is worth reading. Denial is not a rationale way to invest.

[Bboy360]

Well I think the amount of currency in the world is around 100 trillion.  bit coin is a very small percentage of that, it can get to 1% very easy.  I don't think people will dump it after that.  Many people keep their savings in the bank.

[AnonyMint]

Well I think the amount of currency in the world is around 100 trillion.  bit coin is a very small percentage of that, it can get to 1% very easy.  I don't think people will dump it after that.  Many people keep their savings in the bank.

I would not hold an investment that had peaked in price. Meaning peaked in terms of people who would buy into it.

No matter that % of the population that will be, eventually it will be reached.

At that point investors have the incentive to leave and find something that will go up in price.

That is simply unarguable. Who is dumb enough to keep their $100,000 in an investment that returns 0%? You have a risk of decline, and so you need to be rewarded with a rising price to offset the risk of decline.

If investors stopped seeking profit, the world would stop being funded for new investments.

If an investor could fund a new business with Bitcoin, then pay his employees in Bitcoin, then that would be exception my logic. However, the problem is that not enough people have bitcoin, thus not enough of the economy accept bitcoin, thus you can't pay your employees in bitcoin in most cases.

And it is impossible to get most people to own bitcoin, because the price will go over $1 million each before 1% of the 7 billion had purchase Bitcoin. The 99% portion of the population would be devalued by 1/1000000. They simply won't agree to be devalued that much relative to you, thus they would not buy.

Sorry bitcoin lacks distribution because of the 21 million coin limit. It is too harsh. This is fundamentally what makes Bitcoin a ponzi scheme.

Once the investors sense the peak, they will exit. Due to the tiny float, this will quickly turn into a stampede. Then all the way down to near 0 because most capital in Bitcoin is there for the gains, not for use as currency. Only a very tiny portion would remain to use as currency, perhaps back down to $10 or something like that from $1 million.

Problem is that even people wanted to buy it at $10, there are still only 21 million coins and in very few hands, and thus still the same distribution problem.

Distribution is the only thing that can make a currency.

[zeetubes]

It is quite possible the chinese government likes bitcoin because they need a paypal-like infrastructure and paypal doesn't want to give them their code or control. With bitcoin the infrastructure is already tried and tested, and because it is open source, there are no real intellectual property issues.

Not sure I understand the previous comment about there only being 21 million coins. If bitcoin does stay in play, then owning one or more of those 21M coins in a world population of 7-8B people will be a pretty nice investment. Everyone else will just have to play with tiny fractions.

[AnonyMint]

Yeah you really don't understand. At least you admit you don't. Your logic is highly flawed.

The error in your logic is you assume the Bitcoins can somehow be unconcentrated from million owners to 7000 times more owners (1 million x 7000 = 7 billion). But how? Or at least, how soon enough given how fast the price is rising?

I walked you through the scenarios and there is no scenario. You can try rereading my prior post.

If the price was rising more slowly that would allow more time for the coin to slowly be dispersed as the rich owners spend a few of their coins every once in a while.

But even that probably wouldn't work, because the rich always increase their coins and the poor always spend their coins.

You see this is why no currency can exist that doesn't redistribute wealth back from the wealthy to the masses. Otherwise the wealthy would end up with all the coins eventually.

If you earn $1 million per month, what percent of your income do you spend on basic needs? Maybe $5000 per month, so 5%.

If you earn $3000 per month, what percent of your income do you spend on basic needs? Maybe $1500 per month, so 50%.

Which of the two can attain more coins faster?

The fix is to make a coin that can continuously distribute new coins to the masses, but not too fast so as to destroy the price gains of the investor, but just a healthy balance.

But how do you distribute such coins fairly based on capitalism?

Well you let them secure the network and receive coin rewards.

But the problem in bitcoin is that no one with a PC can mine any more. All coins go to those with large capital who can buy ASICs. You can't just download the mining client and run on your PC any more (isn't going to generate any coins).

And the other problem is the bitcoin stops minting many new coins around 2033 (< 1%) and then really slow by 2040 (< 0.2%) and eventually approaching 0 new coins. Very very bad.

You all think it is good, because you didn't think it out, to see it is really bad for you and your investment.

How will you exit at the ponzi top? There will be a stampede to get out.

Did you know that Bitcoin is creating 1312500 new coins this year, which is a 12.5% increase! Yet Bitcoin price is still rising.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Short_Term

See adding more coins doesn't stop the price from going up. Only selfish people who have not thought this out think they need to limit coins at 21 million.

And you know what happens to these selfish people? They will lose everything at the ponzi peak price and them the crash. Because that is what selfish people deserve. Because they don't think. They just destroy the world.

[Siegfried]

It is quite possible the chinese government likes bitcoin because they need a paypal-like infrastructure and paypal doesn't want to give them their code or control. With bitcoin the infrastructure is already tried and tested, and because it is open source, there are no real intellectual property issues.

Not sure I understand the previous comment about there only being 21 million coins. If bitcoin does stay in play, then owning one or more of those 21M coins in a world population of 7-8B people will be a pretty nice investment. Everyone else will just have to play with tiny fractions.

China's online payment systems are at least as good Paypal already.

[qwerty555]

Well I think the amount of currency in the world is around 100 trillion.  bit coin is a very small percentage of that, it can get to 1% very easy.  I don't think people will dump it after that.  Many people keep their savings in the bank.

World currency M2 is estimated at $60 trillion whilst M3 is $75 trillion

http://gizmodo.com/5995301/how-much-money-is-there-on-earth

a trillion is with 12 "0"s

http://math.about.com/od/glossaryofterms/a/zeros.htm

If you need to break the $  or the bitcoin fraction of a unit into 100 cents (equivalent) you need another 2 "0"s or 14 in total

21,000,000 coins divided to 10 decimal places = 16 zeros

therefore

As things stand bitcoin has the potential to cover ALL the currency in the world 50 times.

Does that make sense or have I had too much coffee?

[Alty]

Bitcoin will grow but it will not take over the world, it would be insane to think that.

Nor will it be the only crypto currency that people use.

It is simply the first that has gained mainstream traction.

Others will follow on a larger scale.

[cho]

AnonyMint is raising some good points.
Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme stricto sensu because veterans aren't paid by a scammer with the subscription money of newcomers. Nevertheless, the question of bitcoin's long term sustainability remains.
I disagree with you AnonyMint, though ; I think (I might be wrong) that bitcoin-rich people will spend enough coins to allow bitcoin-poor people to trade work for coins. How do you "prove" that wrong ?

[Bboy360]

If QQ was estimated at 13% of China's cash economy and would have grown larger, what's from stopping bitcoin?

AnonyMint does make good points, but investing in bitcoin also guards you from inflation of your own currency.  I can see a lot of 3rd world countries using or backing their currency with bitcoins.  It's like buying a house, a house isn't going to grow new rooms, or gold isn't going to grow into more gold.

[gabriella]

i am just pointing out the fact many people have come to realize that (but ofcourse not 100% guaranteed) china's economy will soon hit a wall, and any catalytic event will cause its house of cards (with numerous oft-mentioned serious flaws) to crumble and collapse.

once that happens, the only thing the ccp has to keep its powder keg of a society from blowing up - breakneck economic growth is gone, and it may very well lead to collapse of the ccp and china.

it may sound ridiculous now, but more and more people are starting to realize this is the scenario inevitably coming.

[Mondy]

Well I think the amount of currency in the world is around 100 trillion.  bit coin is a very small percentage of that, it can get to 1% very easy.  I don't think people will dump it after that.  Many people keep their savings in the bank.

1 trillion dollars is A LOT, especially for an online currency such as btc!

[freedomno1]

Well I think the amount of currency in the world is around 100 trillion.  bit coin is a very small percentage of that, it can get to 1% very easy.  I don't think people will dump it after that.  Many people keep their savings in the bank.

1 trillion dollars is A LOT, especially for an online currency such as btc!

Not really in my opinion the market is there it just needs to be built upon
Mobile banking could help a lot of users in the Global South and even here in the Global North