put on your tinfoil hats. I think I've gone over the edge.

[Love_and_Squalor]

not sure if this should go here

Something seems really odd to me. So I wasn't in bitcoin during the April crash, but i heard that it was largely due to a ddos attack on mtgox. i bought a few bitcoin around $315 a week or two ago and have been watching the price etc. Now, when the price spiked to the $800+ area the exchanges started lagging or going down for periods of time. Maybe due to ddos attacks. But what seams strange to me is that the level we've been brought down to put us back in line with the exponential growth curve that started on Oct 13. So I guess my thinking is that big players are manipulating the market to fall in line with the exponential growth, shutting down the exchanges when growth becomes too strong or fast. It took a few days for the April crash to reach a bottom. As of right now the price is about 450-500 with no determinable bottom, whether or not this is a more long term correction or part of a mini bubble i don't know. The last two big crashes left us with a price an order of magnitude higher each time, so that leads me to believe that we still have some upward movement left which we will crash from and level out at about $1000.

I guess where my craziness creeps in is me thinking that these exponential growth patterns seem unnatural coinciding with exchange blackouts leading me to believe that there are people behind it. Am i crazy? is this kind of manipulation theoretically possible? Are these patterns possible as natural price movements? Is it possible to manipulate exponential growth to sustain it longer? If there are people manipulating the market and you read this could you give me a heads up on target prices  . I've read rumors that bitcoin is a big ponzi scheme.

I'm not usually one to believe in conspiracies, but something seems off with these price movements. then again i only took a semester of calc and i'm not to familiar with patterns of exponential growth. so Im probably wrong.   

[Love_and_Squalor]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

[emanymton]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

Do you even know what the definition of a ponzi scheme is?

[Love_and_Squalor]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

Do you even know what the definition of a ponzi scheme is?

investment with promise of high return paid for by investors below fueled by new money etc. not exactly btc but similar

[Bitcopia]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

Bitcoin is traded in a free marketplace environment. Ponzi schemes can been built on top of it (Pirate40) but they will get busted or collapse.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7815.0

[firstlast]

Crazy theory indeed.

Bitcoin is a remarkable idea. It's so valuable there is theoretically no ceiling on its price. It's so scarce that as supply is exhausted, the price increases accordingly. You could relate the exponential increase in price to the level of adoption of bitcoin. As it gains more exposure to the world, people will naturally be curious about it, dabble in it, and maybe invest a portion of their worth in it.

As for why the bitcoin price roughly follows an exponential trend, you can thank greed for that. If the price goes up too quickly, people holding bitcoins will sell. Greed keeps the price down, and underlying valuable properties of bitcoin keep the price up.

[Love_and_Squalor]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

Bitcoin is traded in a free marketplace environment. Ponzi schemes can been built on top of it (Pirate40) but they will get busted or collapse.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7815.0

ok i can accept bitcoin isnat a ponzi scheme but, it still seems vulnerable to market manipulation by large owners

[HappyBitCoinUser]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

Bitcoin is traded in a free marketplace environment. Ponzi schemes can been built on top of it (Pirate40) but they will get busted or collapse.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7815.0

ok i can accept bitcoin isnat a ponzi scheme but, it still seems vulnerable to market manipulation by large owners

Yeah, its not a Ponzi scheme. Only people that say that don't know what they are talking about and probably don't know the definition.

Its more or less a stock to invest money into, value could go up or down, except this is a stock that the government wants to get rid of, making people think twice about investing.

[Carlor]

Bitcoin is not a stock, it's a goddamn currency for gods sake.

[JimboToronto]

Bitcoin is not a stock, it's a goddamn currency for gods sake.

+1

[wtfvanity]

Bitcoin is not a stock, it's a goddamn currency for gods sake.

During the senate hearing they kept on referring to it as a currency or a security. They weren't sure what to call it.

[BitcoinBarrel]

My opinion is Bitcion is not a stock or a currency. It's a digital commodity like mp3s and graphics. You are paying for some numbers in a text file. People want to have a Bitcoin so they pay for it. It's a trend like elmos and beanie babies.

People say Bitcoin is a currency because it's numbers and you are buying things. There is no difference between Bitcoin and a Price Tag on an item. The Price Tag says how much an item is worth like Bitcoin.

If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?

If I pay you 1 Bitcoin to mow my lawn then I am trading my Digital Commodity for your service. In this case, Bitcion IS the Price Tag and that's what makes its value.

[MatTheCat]

not sure if this should go here

Something seems really odd to me. So I wasn't in bitcoin during the April crash, but i heard that it was largely due to a ddos attack on mtgox. i bought a few bitcoin around $315 a week or two ago and have been watching the price etc. Now, when the price spiked to the $800+ area the exchanges started lagging or going down for periods of time. Maybe due to ddos attacks. But what seams strange to me is that the level we've been brought down to put us back in line with the exponential growth curve that started on Oct 13. So I guess my thinking is that big players are manipulating the market to fall in line with the exponential growth, shutting down the exchanges when growth becomes too strong or fast. It took a few days for the April crash to reach a bottom. As of right now the price is about 450-500 with no determinable bottom, whether or not this is a more long term correction or part of a mini bubble i don't know. The last two big crashes left us with a price an order of magnitude higher each time, so that leads me to believe that we still have some upward movement left which we will crash from and level out at about $1000.

I guess where my craziness creeps in is me thinking that these exponential growth patterns seem unnatural coinciding with exchange blackouts leading me to believe that there are people behind it. Am i crazy? is this kind of manipulation theoretically possible? Are these patterns possible as natural price movements? Is it possible to manipulate exponential growth to sustain it longer? If there are people manipulating the market and you read this could you give me a heads up on target prices  . I've read rumors that bitcoin is a big ponzi scheme.

I'm not usually one to believe in conspiracies, but something seems off with these price movements. then again i only took a semester of calc and i'm not to familiar with patterns of exponential growth. so Im probably wrong.   

Considering that practically every market in the world is manipulated (to be volatile in up and down directions), I think you can take your tinfoil hat off.

The fact that all the exchanges mysterious freeze just about spike/crash time is very very fishy.......would certainly facilitate priviliged in-cliques time to do optimum business before the inevitable occurs.

[Carlor]

Bitcoin is not a stock, it's a goddamn currency for gods sake.

During the senate hearing they kept on referring to it as a currency or a security. They weren't sure what to call it.

And why exactly do I care about this senate hearing?

...
If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?
...

Money is an item you trade for other items.

[Blazey]

i am psychiatrist and what i have learned in my profession through the years, is the people strive after power. if you have a couple before you, everyone will claim for themselves that is true. you get a good feeling about purpose of people and of people thinking throughout the years.

the basic instinct that is driving all the people is programmed purpose of money and everything that has some value. because people start to feel accepted into society, from others. this gave them the power and after they develop a tolerance for that feeling, they move onto expectations. but expectation is the reason, if they are gonna feel good or bad. if the expectation is meet, they feel good, if not, they feel bad.

and when something happen, even small thing, like they get paycheck in that day of the week, they are prominent happy, but after some time, because of tolerance, they need more of that feeling. this is also a vicious circle, that are imho 90% of people caught in, and of course this is the reason, that prevents people to be truly happy.

on topic: i wanted to say that it is possible to predict in a 40% what will happen to a currency, only if you know, what type of people posses the btc on a psychological base.

[I_bitcoin]

My opinion is Bitcion is not a stock or a currency. It's a digital commodity like mp3s and graphics. You are paying for some numbers in a text file. People want to have a Bitcoin so they pay for it.

This...   

It is a commodity today that has some currency characteristics (note how the Senate hearings discussed as well).   In the long run the commodity characteristics may go away if it becomes of greater common utility (mom can use it etc...).

It's a trend like elmos and beanie babies.

Not That...

This is going to be quite different.   Elmos and beanie babies do not have the right qualities to be successful long term.   Having a protocol for exchange of value is absafreakingmazing.

[wtfvanity]

Bitcoin is not a stock, it's a goddamn currency for gods sake.

During the senate hearing they kept on referring to it as a currency or a security. They weren't sure what to call it.

And why exactly do I care about this senate hearing?

...
If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?
...

Money is an item you trade for other items.

So pigs are money? Stocks are money. Securities are money. You're an idiot, shut up. If you're in the USA, then you certainly care what the monkeys are saying. If you're not, the impact won't be as big on you.

[uininPeter]

ok i can accept bitcoin isnat a ponzi scheme but, it still seems vulnerable to market manipulation by large owners

Your right, but as times go, the coins will be distributed to more people, thus less volitale price

[Carlor]

Bitcoin is not a stock, it's a goddamn currency for gods sake.

During the senate hearing they kept on referring to it as a currency or a security. They weren't sure what to call it.

And why exactly do I care about this senate hearing?

...
If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?
...

Money is an item you trade for other items.

So pigs are money? Stocks are money. Securities are money. You're an idiot, shut up. If you're in the USA, then you certainly care what the monkeys are saying. If you're not, the impact won't be as big on you.

Pigs have an inherent value. Money not (at least not as much as the trade value).
I'm not in the USA. But I don't care about the bullshit politicians talk about bitcoins in my country neither.
The idiot here is you

[donjoe]

Bitcoin is not a stock, it's a goddamn currency for gods sake.

Bitcoin is not a currency, it's a goddamned highly volatile stock that's useful mostly for speculators who want to get rich without working, for goodness' sake. (At least try to be honest.)

[wtfvanity]

Money is an item you trade for other items.

So pigs are money? Stocks are money. Securities are money. You're an idiot, shut up. If you're in the USA, then you certainly care what the monkeys are saying. If you're not, the impact won't be as big on you.

Pigs have an inherent value. Money not (at least not as much as the trade value).
I'm not in the USA. But I don't care about the bullshit politicians talk about bitcoins in my country neither.

That's not what you said. You said money is an item you trade for other items. You could trade a pig for other items. You said nothing of inherent value. Now you want to change your super broad definition a little?

Please, mr educator, tell us more of your vague argument.

[Tirapon]

If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?

Your comparison of Bitcoin to a price tag is a poor one to be honest.

But, in answer to your question: Yes, if everyone is trading price tags for the things that they want, prices tags are a currency.

[BitcoinBarrel]

If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?

Your comparison of Bitcoin to a price tag is a poor one to be honest.

But, in answer to your question: Yes, if everyone is trading price tags for the things that they want, prices tags are a currency.

Like I said, if a currency is something you trade with then everything is a currency...

[adamstgBit]

If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?

Your comparison of Bitcoin to a price tag is a poor one to be honest.

But, in answer to your question: Yes, if everyone is trading price tags for the things that they want, prices tags are a currency.

Like I said, if a currency is something you trade with then everything is a currency...

no.
it needs to have certain properties for it to be considered as currency by the free market.

[Carlor]

Money is an item you trade for other items.

So pigs are money? Stocks are money. Securities are money. You're an idiot, shut up. If you're in the USA, then you certainly care what the monkeys are saying. If you're not, the impact won't be as big on you.

Pigs have an inherent value. Money not (at least not as much as the trade value).
I'm not in the USA. But I don't care about the bullshit politicians talk about bitcoins in my country neither.

That's not what you said. You said money is an item you trade for other items. You could trade a pig for other items. You said nothing of inherent value. Now you want to change your super broad definition a little?

Please, mr educator, tell us more of your vague argument.

Did I say, that the only characteristic of money is, that it is an item you trade for another item? No.
Pigs have additional characteristics than just being an "item". Or would you say a stone is the same as a table, just because they are both "items"?
I just wanted you to understand, that you can indeed use everything for money. Thus "money is an item you trade for other items.". But it doesn't mean that everything IS money. But almost everything CAN be money.
Got it?

[wtfvanity]

Money is an item you trade for other items.

So pigs are money? Stocks are money. Securities are money. You're an idiot, shut up. If you're in the USA, then you certainly care what the monkeys are saying. If you're not, the impact won't be as big on you.

Pigs have an inherent value. Money not (at least not as much as the trade value).
I'm not in the USA. But I don't care about the bullshit politicians talk about bitcoins in my country neither.

That's not what you said. You said money is an item you trade for other items. You could trade a pig for other items. You said nothing of inherent value. Now you want to change your super broad definition a little?

Please, mr educator, tell us more of your vague argument.

Did I say, that the only characteristic of money is, that it is an item you trade for another item? No.
Pigs have additional characteristics than just being an "item". Or would you say a stone is the same as a table, just because they are both "items"?
I just wanted you to understand, that you can indeed use everything for money. Thus "money is an item you trade for other items.". But it doesn't mean that everything IS money. But almost everything CAN be money.
Got it?

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

[Bitcopia]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

This.

I'm really shocked at the number of people posting in this forum that don't understand bitcoin beyond a superficial level. Maybe the knowledgable ones are just growing weary of trying to help educate the newcomers every time there is a bubble.

[wtfvanity]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

This.

I'm really shocked at the number of people posting in this forum that don't understand bitcoin beyond a superficial level. Maybe the knowledgable ones are just growing weary of trying to help educate the newcomers every time there is a bubble.

Or tired. Or, maybe they are rich now and don't care haha.

[Carlor]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

For example?

[wtfvanity]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

For example?

For having registered 5 days ago, you're pretty stupid. I've got a link for you:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page


Go read for a bit.

[Bitcopia]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

For example?

It's a protocol that removes the need for trusted third party validation from a host of functions. Use your imagination. Think of anything that requires a trusted third party for a transaction to occur. Now imagine how to replace that service with bitcoin. It will take time for systems to be built, but they will be built.

As for now, systems have already been built and are being utilized for micro-transactions, incredibly cheap remittance, and significantly cheaper payment processing, and we're just over 4 years into the game. Also, I'm sure I've left out some wonderful uses of bitcoin, but I'm tired and I tend to focus on the backend payment systems aspect more than anything else.

[Impaler]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

Bitcoin is traded in a free marketplace environment. Ponzi schemes can been built on top of it (Pirate40) but they will get busted or collapse.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7815.0

ok i can accept bitcoin isnat a ponzi scheme but, it still seems vulnerable to market manipulation by large owners

It would best be described as a pyramid scheme, where as a Ponzi scheme has a single 'master mind' at the top who takes in and gives out all monies (and who will inevitably try to abscond with it all).  A pyramid scheme is decentralized, so when people say "BTC is not a Ponzi because it is decentralized" they are correct, but this dose not mean it is not a scam, decentralized scams were created LONG before the internet.  

A Pyramid scheme essentially ranks it's members by how early they were involved and new members must pay old members for joining.  In a Pyramid scheme the earlier adopters often have a finite payout they receive when a quota of members below them is reached, essentially the Pyramid fissions at this point with the second tier individuals now becoming the leaders of their own pyramids.  It is a scam because it can only work if grows exponentially forever and this is impossible in a finite population, the last people to join are the ones screwed over.

BTC modifies this by never mandating a fission of the pyramid, rather it allows early adopters to keep riding and hoping for bigger rewards for as long as they can delay their gratification.  Also it allows a degree of reshuffling of ones hierarchy in the pyramid by continually buying more coins.  But the basic nature of the pyramid is still their, all wealth is merely being redistributed (upwards always upwards) rather then actually generated by real business activity.  The key to making it an effective pyramid scheme was the nature of mining and it's exponential decreasing effectiveness which put huge quantities of coins in the hands of early adopters while guaranteeing future scarcity, thus creating the incentive for them to hunt for more participant, thus elevating themselves.

BTC thus combines the elements of a Pyramid scheme with a speculative Bubble, and it encourages each aspect to feed on and accelerate the growth of the other.

[Bitcopia]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

Bitcoin is traded in a free marketplace environment. Ponzi schemes can been built on top of it (Pirate40) but they will get busted or collapse.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7815.0

ok i can accept bitcoin isnat a ponzi scheme but, it still seems vulnerable to market manipulation by large owners

It would best be described as a pyramid scheme, where as a Ponzi scheme has a single 'master mind' at the top who takes in and gives out all monies (and who will inevitably try to abscond with it all).  A pyramid scheme is decentralized, so when people say "BTC is not a Ponzi because it is decentralized" they are correct, but this dose not mean it is not a scam, decentralized scams were created LONG before the internet.  

A Pyramid scheme essentially ranks it's members by how early they were involved and new members must pay old members for joining.  In a Pyramid scheme the earlier adopters often have a finite payout they receive when a quota of members below them is reached, essentially the Pyramid fissions at this point with the second tier individuals now becoming the leaders of their own pyramids.  It is a scam because it can only work if grows exponentially forever and this is impossible in a finite population, the last people to join are the ones screwed over.

BTC modifies this by never mandating a fission of the pyramid, rather it allows early adopters to keep riding and hoping for bigger rewards for as long as they can delay their gratification.  Also it allows a degree of reshuffling of ones hierarchy in the pyramid by continually buying more coins.  But the basic nature of the pyramid is still their, all wealth is merely being redistributed (upwards always upwards) rather then actually generated by real business activity.  The key to making it an effective pyramid scheme was the nature of mining and it's exponential decreasing effectiveness which put huge quantities of coins in the hands of early adopters while guaranteeing future scarcity, thus creating the incentive for them to hunt for more participant, thus elevating themselves.

BTC thus combines the elements of a Pyramid scheme with a speculative Bubble, and it encourages each aspect to feed on and accelerate the growth of the other.

Why does bitcoin need to grow exponentially forever??? It would actually work much better if it didn't...

Also, by this logic, most publicly traded companies would be pyramid schemes. Almost all investments are pyramids. What makes an investment a scheme is a useless idea that suckers people into buying. You can believe bitcoin is a useless idea, but many very bright folks would genuinely disagree.

[Impaler]

Real companies do real business and turn a profit.  And they then pay dividends out of thouse profits.  In the case of companies that don't pay dividends some are reinvesting all profits into growth, but the ultimate intent is to become a Blue chip dividend paying company in a mature industry.  If someone said they were selling stock for a company that would NEVER pay dividends under any circumstances then yes that would be a scam because it's value as a stock would have no link to expected future profits of the company, it would be pure speculation as BTC is.  And yes I think modern stocks get dangerously close to being scams when their value is almost entirely speculative.

[benjamindees]

Keep looking then take a good look at the regular markets (stocks, bonds, commodities  etc.) and get ready for a big surprise

This is true.  This run-up can be seen in the housing market as well, for instance.  Bitcoin is just a lot more exaggerated.

That having been said, there are more than a few conspiracies surrounding Bitcoin.  Price manipulation has been one of them in the past, and probably still is.

[Hyena]

Why does bitcoin need to grow exponentially forever??? It would actually work much better if it didn't...

Also, by this logic, most publicly traded companies would be pyramid schemes. Almost all investments are pyramids. What makes an investment a scheme is a useless idea that suckers people into buying. You can believe bitcoin is a useless idea, but many very bright folks would genuinely disagree.

Why do you even bother to argue these people , it's totally their loss that they fail to understand what bitcoin really is.

[BitchicksHusband]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

[Carlor]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

[bassclef]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

The purpose of Bitcoin is whatever we want it to be.

[emanymton]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

The purpose of Bitcoin is whatever we want it to be.

What's my name? Anything you want baby 

[Carlor]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

The purpose of Bitcoin is whatever we want it to be.

Ok. So there are (far to...) many people that want bitcoin to be gold 2.0. And imho this idea got more and more fans since the last ath and the media coverage. Because people get $ signs in their eyes and don't see, why bitcoin got so far.
It got so far, because it is fast and cheap and worldwide. Not because it is rare.
If these people define the way of bitcoin, the whole technology will be a giant bubble and we won't have decentralised cryptocurrencies in the future.

[wtfvanity]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

The purpose of Bitcoin is whatever we want it to be.

Ok. So there are (far to...) many people that want bitcoin to be gold 2.0. And imho this idea got more and more fans since the last ath and the media coverage. Because people get $ signs in their eyes and don't see, why bitcoin got so far.
It got so far, because it is fast and cheap and worldwide. Not because it is rare.
If these people define the way of bitcoin, the whole technology will be a giant bubble and we won't have decentralised cryptocurrencies in the future.

But saying that it is ONLY a currency because it's cheap and fast... is just as silly as saying it's only gold 2.0.

[Carlor]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

The purpose of Bitcoin is whatever we want it to be.

Ok. So there are (far to...) many people that want bitcoin to be gold 2.0. And imho this idea got more and more fans since the last ath and the media coverage. Because people get $ signs in their eyes and don't see, why bitcoin got so far.
It got so far, because it is fast and cheap and worldwide. Not because it is rare.
If these people define the way of bitcoin, the whole technology will be a giant bubble and we won't have decentralised cryptocurrencies in the future.

But saying that it is ONLY a currency because it's cheap and fast... is just as silly as saying it's only gold 2.0.

Correct. But imho it's value depends on whether it features clear advantages over fiat money. And for most people the most important point will be, whether it is cheap and fast or not.
People won't be interested in technical details (the design is definitely beautiful, but people don't even use pgp for their emails because it's to "uncomfortable"), they want to see that they can make a cheap, fast transaction from anywhere to anywhere without using a bank etc.
And right now, there are a lot of speculators who either try to make some fast money or believe, that bitcoin will be a working concept in the future.
Some people think, that people will use bitcoins in the near future to have a secure investment, away from the governments influence. This might be true, but if bitcoin doesn't work as a fast and cheap currency anymore then, this will be a huge bubble. Just like the fucked up debacle we have in a lot of existing financial sectors.

I would like to see bitcoin flourish as an alternative to the existing financial system (which it still is at the moment), not another version of the existing crap.

[Tirapon]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

Bitcoin can be used for whatever purpose people find it suitable for.

[C10H15N]

Real companies do real business and turn a profit.  And they then pay dividends out of thouse profits.  In the case of companies that don't pay dividends some are reinvesting all profits into growth, but the ultimate intent is to become a Blue chip dividend paying company in a mature industry.  If someone said they were selling stock for a company that would NEVER pay dividends under any circumstances then yes that would be a scam because it's value as a stock would have no link to expected future profits of the company, it would be pure speculation as BTC is.  And yes I think modern stocks get dangerously close to being scams when their value is almost entirely speculative.

You have just described Warren Buffet and Berkshire Hathaway

No dividends - pure capital appreciation. 

[Carlor]

Bitcoin can be used for whatever purpose people find it suitable for.

Of course. People can do whatever they want.
But if the restrictions on transactions don't get changed before a possible "mass adoption" it can't be used as currency effectively anymore.
And this will make it unusable as a currency as well as an investment (or gold 2.0), because it's value as a speculation object / investment stems first and foremost from it's possibility to be transfered quickly and cheap.

So, if the rules get adapted (asap), there is a huge chance, that it can be used as either a currency or gold 2.0, or whatever you want it to be, in the future.
If they don't get adapted, there is a huge chance, that it won't be anything of these but another promising invention going down.
If bitcoin fails becaus of it's restrictions and uncomfortability, people won't have any trust in decentralized cryptocurrencies. And in the end it is not about any of us who mined bitcoins in the beginning because it seemed like a brilliant, promising idea. The decision will be made by the "common man". Bitcoin has the opportunity to prove to the people, that decentralization can work, that it doesn't have to be managed by the big brother.

[Gleason]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

The purpose of Bitcoin is whatever we want it to be.

Ok. So there are (far to...) many people that want bitcoin to be gold 2.0. And imho this idea got more and more fans since the last ath and the media coverage. Because people get $ signs in their eyes and don't see, why bitcoin got so far.
It got so far, because it is fast and cheap and worldwide. Not because it is rare.
If these people define the way of bitcoin, the whole technology will be a giant bubble and we won't have decentralised cryptocurrencies in the future.

IMO, Bitcoin needs these bubbles, as thats what drives more people into bitcoin. Investors, venture capitalists, and more common people wanting some BTC. Even if its only to hold / speculate on a few coins, it is driving people who normally wouldn't EVER bat an eye towards bitcoin, to start taking steps to learn what it is, and obtain it.

If it stays cheap, then there will always be wild price fluctuations as it can be manipulated by people with large sums of money. Over a long long longgggg period of time, with more ATHs, and increasing value; Bitcoins will become more popular and slowly dispersed between many people. This will drive it to a high value, but it will more than likely be alot more stable, and better suited to being used as an actual currency, and not a speculators toy.

just my 2 cents.

[hyphymikey]

Well lets see. Bitcoin top in April was at $300 on the China exchange. China led this rally and it topped at $1000. Coincidence? Haha, I think not! Next correction could be $2000, maybe $5000, but I bet you it will be very very close to an even dollar amount, on the China exchange. Unless of course these whale manipulators want to just let the price rise forever without any "adjustment".

Sometimes I even go as far as to count the candles colors, and see how many in a row there are. Rarely do you see six consecutive green candles on the M15 or H1.

Yeah, the tinfoil hat is strong within me, but it has help me make good calls.

[Love_and_Squalor]

not sure if this should go here
...
I'm not usually one to believe in conspiracies, but something seems off with these price movements. then again i only took a semester of calc and i'm not to familiar with patterns of exponential growth. so Im probably wrong.  

Keep looking then take a good look at the regular markets (stocks, bonds, commodities  etc.) and get ready for a big surprise

I've pretty familiar with the forex market. its how i learned about technical/ fundamental analysis and such. I know stock markets can see bubbles and everything. but in the bitcoin market i see bubbles inside of bubble inside of bubbles.

now im just thinking that the price movement is just based on the expectation of future gain, which will be driven by new investors seeking the same.

to be honest i dont think btc will ever see widespread use. but i think it will still see phenomenal growth because people will have the idea that it has value. its kind of a weird idea, but not much different than assigning value to paper currency. depending on how you look at it a dollar is still a piece paper, but it has use as a medium of exchange. people try to argue that btc is too, but the use of bitcoin as a medium of exchange in the past month has not increased(if it even has at all!) in the same proportion as its price. new money is feeding this growth pure and simple. those who get in at the bottom profit from those who buy in after. This is why it seems like a scheme. It might not have been an intended consequence, but it is something to consider.

It just seems so strange to buy this weird intangible thing(BTC) whose current value is based on the possibility of gain rather than its actual use.