put on your tinfoil hats. I think I've gone over the edge.

[wtfvanity]

Money is an item you trade for other items.

So pigs are money? Stocks are money. Securities are money. You're an idiot, shut up. If you're in the USA, then you certainly care what the monkeys are saying. If you're not, the impact won't be as big on you.

Pigs have an inherent value. Money not (at least not as much as the trade value).
I'm not in the USA. But I don't care about the bullshit politicians talk about bitcoins in my country neither.

That's not what you said. You said money is an item you trade for other items. You could trade a pig for other items. You said nothing of inherent value. Now you want to change your super broad definition a little?

Please, mr educator, tell us more of your vague argument.

[Tirapon]

If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?

Your comparison of Bitcoin to a price tag is a poor one to be honest.

But, in answer to your question: Yes, if everyone is trading price tags for the things that they want, prices tags are a currency.

[BitcoinBarrel]

If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?

Your comparison of Bitcoin to a price tag is a poor one to be honest.

But, in answer to your question: Yes, if everyone is trading price tags for the things that they want, prices tags are a currency.

Like I said, if a currency is something you trade with then everything is a currency...

[adamstgBit]

If we agree that I will trade you a random physical Price Tag from a store with numbers on it for a Candy Bar does that make the Price Tag a currency? If we are trading the item for your item?

Your comparison of Bitcoin to a price tag is a poor one to be honest.

But, in answer to your question: Yes, if everyone is trading price tags for the things that they want, prices tags are a currency.

Like I said, if a currency is something you trade with then everything is a currency...

no.
it needs to have certain properties for it to be considered as currency by the free market.

[Carlor]

Money is an item you trade for other items.

So pigs are money? Stocks are money. Securities are money. You're an idiot, shut up. If you're in the USA, then you certainly care what the monkeys are saying. If you're not, the impact won't be as big on you.

Pigs have an inherent value. Money not (at least not as much as the trade value).
I'm not in the USA. But I don't care about the bullshit politicians talk about bitcoins in my country neither.

That's not what you said. You said money is an item you trade for other items. You could trade a pig for other items. You said nothing of inherent value. Now you want to change your super broad definition a little?

Please, mr educator, tell us more of your vague argument.

Did I say, that the only characteristic of money is, that it is an item you trade for another item? No.
Pigs have additional characteristics than just being an "item". Or would you say a stone is the same as a table, just because they are both "items"?
I just wanted you to understand, that you can indeed use everything for money. Thus "money is an item you trade for other items.". But it doesn't mean that everything IS money. But almost everything CAN be money.
Got it?

[wtfvanity]

Money is an item you trade for other items.

So pigs are money? Stocks are money. Securities are money. You're an idiot, shut up. If you're in the USA, then you certainly care what the monkeys are saying. If you're not, the impact won't be as big on you.

Pigs have an inherent value. Money not (at least not as much as the trade value).
I'm not in the USA. But I don't care about the bullshit politicians talk about bitcoins in my country neither.

That's not what you said. You said money is an item you trade for other items. You could trade a pig for other items. You said nothing of inherent value. Now you want to change your super broad definition a little?

Please, mr educator, tell us more of your vague argument.

Did I say, that the only characteristic of money is, that it is an item you trade for another item? No.
Pigs have additional characteristics than just being an "item". Or would you say a stone is the same as a table, just because they are both "items"?
I just wanted you to understand, that you can indeed use everything for money. Thus "money is an item you trade for other items.". But it doesn't mean that everything IS money. But almost everything CAN be money.
Got it?

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

[Bitcopia]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

This.

I'm really shocked at the number of people posting in this forum that don't understand bitcoin beyond a superficial level. Maybe the knowledgable ones are just growing weary of trying to help educate the newcomers every time there is a bubble.

[wtfvanity]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

This.

I'm really shocked at the number of people posting in this forum that don't understand bitcoin beyond a superficial level. Maybe the knowledgable ones are just growing weary of trying to help educate the newcomers every time there is a bubble.

Or tired. Or, maybe they are rich now and don't care haha.

[Carlor]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

For example?

[wtfvanity]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

For example?

For having registered 5 days ago, you're pretty stupid. I've got a link for you:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page


Go read for a bit.

[Bitcopia]

And guess what, bitcoins have more characteristics than just money! Whodduthunkit

For example?

It's a protocol that removes the need for trusted third party validation from a host of functions. Use your imagination. Think of anything that requires a trusted third party for a transaction to occur. Now imagine how to replace that service with bitcoin. It will take time for systems to be built, but they will be built.

As for now, systems have already been built and are being utilized for micro-transactions, incredibly cheap remittance, and significantly cheaper payment processing, and we're just over 4 years into the game. Also, I'm sure I've left out some wonderful uses of bitcoin, but I'm tired and I tend to focus on the backend payment systems aspect more than anything else.

[Impaler]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

Bitcoin is traded in a free marketplace environment. Ponzi schemes can been built on top of it (Pirate40) but they will get busted or collapse.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7815.0

ok i can accept bitcoin isnat a ponzi scheme but, it still seems vulnerable to market manipulation by large owners

It would best be described as a pyramid scheme, where as a Ponzi scheme has a single 'master mind' at the top who takes in and gives out all monies (and who will inevitably try to abscond with it all).  A pyramid scheme is decentralized, so when people say "BTC is not a Ponzi because it is decentralized" they are correct, but this dose not mean it is not a scam, decentralized scams were created LONG before the internet.  

A Pyramid scheme essentially ranks it's members by how early they were involved and new members must pay old members for joining.  In a Pyramid scheme the earlier adopters often have a finite payout they receive when a quota of members below them is reached, essentially the Pyramid fissions at this point with the second tier individuals now becoming the leaders of their own pyramids.  It is a scam because it can only work if grows exponentially forever and this is impossible in a finite population, the last people to join are the ones screwed over.

BTC modifies this by never mandating a fission of the pyramid, rather it allows early adopters to keep riding and hoping for bigger rewards for as long as they can delay their gratification.  Also it allows a degree of reshuffling of ones hierarchy in the pyramid by continually buying more coins.  But the basic nature of the pyramid is still their, all wealth is merely being redistributed (upwards always upwards) rather then actually generated by real business activity.  The key to making it an effective pyramid scheme was the nature of mining and it's exponential decreasing effectiveness which put huge quantities of coins in the hands of early adopters while guaranteeing future scarcity, thus creating the incentive for them to hunt for more participant, thus elevating themselves.

BTC thus combines the elements of a Pyramid scheme with a speculative Bubble, and it encourages each aspect to feed on and accelerate the growth of the other.

[Bitcopia]

oh yea and another reason i think something is off is due to no one knowing who the creator of the bitcoin is. if bitcoin is determined to be a ponzi scheme it would be good to remain unknown....... i feel really dumb for saying all of this, i don't really think all of this im just exploring ideas.

Bitcoin is traded in a free marketplace environment. Ponzi schemes can been built on top of it (Pirate40) but they will get busted or collapse.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7815.0

ok i can accept bitcoin isnat a ponzi scheme but, it still seems vulnerable to market manipulation by large owners

It would best be described as a pyramid scheme, where as a Ponzi scheme has a single 'master mind' at the top who takes in and gives out all monies (and who will inevitably try to abscond with it all).  A pyramid scheme is decentralized, so when people say "BTC is not a Ponzi because it is decentralized" they are correct, but this dose not mean it is not a scam, decentralized scams were created LONG before the internet.  

A Pyramid scheme essentially ranks it's members by how early they were involved and new members must pay old members for joining.  In a Pyramid scheme the earlier adopters often have a finite payout they receive when a quota of members below them is reached, essentially the Pyramid fissions at this point with the second tier individuals now becoming the leaders of their own pyramids.  It is a scam because it can only work if grows exponentially forever and this is impossible in a finite population, the last people to join are the ones screwed over.

BTC modifies this by never mandating a fission of the pyramid, rather it allows early adopters to keep riding and hoping for bigger rewards for as long as they can delay their gratification.  Also it allows a degree of reshuffling of ones hierarchy in the pyramid by continually buying more coins.  But the basic nature of the pyramid is still their, all wealth is merely being redistributed (upwards always upwards) rather then actually generated by real business activity.  The key to making it an effective pyramid scheme was the nature of mining and it's exponential decreasing effectiveness which put huge quantities of coins in the hands of early adopters while guaranteeing future scarcity, thus creating the incentive for them to hunt for more participant, thus elevating themselves.

BTC thus combines the elements of a Pyramid scheme with a speculative Bubble, and it encourages each aspect to feed on and accelerate the growth of the other.

Why does bitcoin need to grow exponentially forever??? It would actually work much better if it didn't...

Also, by this logic, most publicly traded companies would be pyramid schemes. Almost all investments are pyramids. What makes an investment a scheme is a useless idea that suckers people into buying. You can believe bitcoin is a useless idea, but many very bright folks would genuinely disagree.

[Impaler]

Real companies do real business and turn a profit.  And they then pay dividends out of thouse profits.  In the case of companies that don't pay dividends some are reinvesting all profits into growth, but the ultimate intent is to become a Blue chip dividend paying company in a mature industry.  If someone said they were selling stock for a company that would NEVER pay dividends under any circumstances then yes that would be a scam because it's value as a stock would have no link to expected future profits of the company, it would be pure speculation as BTC is.  And yes I think modern stocks get dangerously close to being scams when their value is almost entirely speculative.

[benjamindees]

Keep looking then take a good look at the regular markets (stocks, bonds, commodities  etc.) and get ready for a big surprise

This is true.  This run-up can be seen in the housing market as well, for instance.  Bitcoin is just a lot more exaggerated.

That having been said, there are more than a few conspiracies surrounding Bitcoin.  Price manipulation has been one of them in the past, and probably still is.

[Hyena]

Why does bitcoin need to grow exponentially forever??? It would actually work much better if it didn't...

Also, by this logic, most publicly traded companies would be pyramid schemes. Almost all investments are pyramids. What makes an investment a scheme is a useless idea that suckers people into buying. You can believe bitcoin is a useless idea, but many very bright folks would genuinely disagree.

Why do you even bother to argue these people , it's totally their loss that they fail to understand what bitcoin really is.

[BitchicksHusband]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

[Carlor]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

[bassclef]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

The purpose of Bitcoin is whatever we want it to be.

[emanymton]

And we believe the future value is that of severely impacting or replacing:

PayPal
Western Union
MoneyGram
WebMoney
American Express
Visa
Mastercard
Discover
Banks

If it even replaces 50% of all of those, bitcoin will be worth multiple billions of dollars easily.

This is correct. Sadly more and more people see bitcoin as "gold 2.0".
And this was never the purpose of bitcoin.

The purpose of Bitcoin is whatever we want it to be.

What's my name? Anything you want baby