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Author Topic: after all BTC has been mined, what then?  (Read 4993 times)
opticalcarrier (OP)
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November 21, 2013, 02:52:03 AM
 #1

As I understand it, then 100% of all hashing resources will be to process transactions?

1) how will the system distribute transactions to be processed (for that matter, how does it happen now)
2) can you bypass fees altogether by using your own wallet and hashing to process the payment?
3) will pools then cease to be viable?
4) since fees will be based on byte size of transaction, what impact will using different bitcoin addresses for each transaction be versus nout having different ones?
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gadman2
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November 21, 2013, 02:54:56 AM
 #2

Miners will still mine for transaction fees.

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November 21, 2013, 04:00:47 AM
 #3

you are really concerned about something that won't happen until 2140??   It will be an entirely different world by then in most every possible way.
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November 21, 2013, 04:06:35 AM
 #4

Transaction fee's will be the miners bread and butter, but that is very very far away.

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November 21, 2013, 04:14:07 AM
 #5

Quote
1) how will the system distribute transactions to be processed (for that matter, how does it happen now)
nodes relay tx to their peers, eventually tx reach miners, miners place them into blocks and look for a solution (hash below target value).  Nothing will change when the block subsidy goes to zero.

Miners are compensated by block subsidy + transaction fees.  As the block subsidy declines (over the next 100 to 130 years) fees will become more important.

Quote
2) can you bypass fees altogether by using your own wallet and hashing to process the payment?

sure however understand it takes a significant amount of hashing power to solve a lock in a reasonable timeframe.  There are 144 blocks per day or 4,320 per month (on average).  You would need be able to solve 3-4 blocks per month to have high chance of ensuring you will solve at least 1 in 30 days (there is an element of luck).  So you would need about 1/1000th of all the hashpower on the network.  Currently the network is ~4 PH/s so we would be talking about 4 TH/s and that number will be higher in the future.  Honestly it probably makes more sense to just pay the tiny tx fee.

Quote
3) will pools then cease to be viable?

Nope as above everything will be the same.

Quote
4) since fees will be based on byte size of transaction, what impact will using different bitcoin addresses for each transaction be versus nout having different ones?

No.  Bitcoin works on the concept out inputs and outputs.  The input for a tx is the output of a prior tx.   Using 3 inputs from a single address takes up exactly the same amount of spaces as 3 inputs from different addresses.
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November 21, 2013, 04:17:54 AM
 #6

After 2030, we will have mined about 99% of all bitcoins. Between 2030 to 2140, it's going to look the same. Miners will mine for transaction fees, mostly, until miners will mine for transaction fees only.

HansBauer94
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November 21, 2013, 04:49:09 AM
 #7

After 2030, we will have mined about 99% of all bitcoins. Between 2030 to 2140, it's going to look the same. Miners will mine for transaction fees, mostly, until miners will mine for transaction fees only.

I don't get it, how do you know after 2030 99% will be already mined? and why 2140? care to explain? I don't really know much about mining  Undecided
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November 21, 2013, 04:54:48 AM
 #8

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply

Look at the table Projected Bitcoins Long Term

By about 2025, we'd have mined 20 million bitcoins already. It will then take the next one hundred years to mine the last million.

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November 21, 2013, 04:56:02 AM
 #9

After 2030, we will have mined about 99% of all bitcoins. Between 2030 to 2140, it's going to look the same. Miners will mine for transaction fees, mostly, until miners will mine for transaction fees only.

I don't get it, how do you know after 2030 99% will be already mined? and why 2140? care to explain? I don't really know much about mining  Undecided

This is because every now and then, the amount of Bitcoins given to miners (currently: 25) per block decreases.

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November 21, 2013, 05:07:15 AM
 #10

Now I got it, thanks to both of you  Smiley

Reading that just showed me how far off of mining I'm Roll Eyes
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November 21, 2013, 05:07:20 AM
 #11

After 2030, we will have mined about 99% of all bitcoins. Between 2030 to 2140, it's going to look the same. Miners will mine for transaction fees, mostly, until miners will mine for transaction fees only.

By then bitcoin will have changed A LOT, trust me.

dominicwin
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November 21, 2013, 05:14:42 AM
 #12

After 2030, we will have mined about 99% of all bitcoins. Between 2030 to 2140, it's going to look the same. Miners will mine for transaction fees, mostly, until miners will mine for transaction fees only.

By then bitcoin will have changed A LOT, trust me.

haha! That is for sure. We don't know what tomorrow entails for Bitcoin.

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November 21, 2013, 08:35:14 AM
 #13

I sorta understand the concept of mining.  But how exactly do miners mine for transaction fees?  I don't quite understand who GETS these fees, why they get them, etc.

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November 21, 2013, 08:41:47 AM
 #14

I sorta understand the concept of mining.  But how exactly do miners mine for transaction fees?  I don't quite understand who GETS these fees, why they get them, etc.

Miners get the transaction fees. It's their payment for processing your transactions.

Theoretically transaction fees should be enough of an incentive for miners to mine even without new Bitcoins per block. But personally I have my doubts about that. At least as it stands right now, fees make up less than 1% of the Bitcoins miners make from each block. Once new Bitcoins per block drop, transaction fees are going to need to rise substantially, and I'm not sure how that's going to happen.
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November 21, 2013, 08:42:37 AM
 #15

I sorta understand the concept of mining.  But how exactly do miners mine for transaction fees?  I don't quite understand who GETS these fees, why they get them, etc.

Users include fees (normally 0.1 mBTC) when creating txs.  It is possible to send some tx without a fee but lately free tx confirmation times have been long.
When miners include txs into a block they collect all the fees from the tx they include and also collect the block subsidy (which was initially 50 BTC and is now 25 BTC).

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November 21, 2013, 08:59:44 AM
 #16

Wait a couple of decades, you'll see transaction fees close in on block rewards.

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November 21, 2013, 09:13:14 AM
 #17

after btc its ltc Smiley

niothor
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November 21, 2013, 10:02:06 AM
 #18

Nothing will change.
Miners will get their bitcoins from transactions fees , and we won't change anything.
Also replace we with "our nephews" cause we won't be around by that time.


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November 21, 2013, 10:09:30 AM
 #19

Dont think this can be seen tomorrow

There are altcoins that can come into effect
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November 21, 2013, 10:14:56 AM
Last edit: November 21, 2013, 10:45:59 AM by franky1
 #20

As I understand it, then 100% of all hashing resources will be to process transactions?

1) how will the system distribute transactions to be processed (for that matter, how does it happen now)
at this point instead of millions of miners, there would be only dozens, as it has become expensive to mine. ( much like the change between the pickaxe and the excavators for gold mining) so although there is no "block reward" the transaction fee's would cover the costs of 10 minutes work
2) can you bypass fees altogether by using your own wallet and hashing to process the payment?
no i cant. ill be retired, have died by then. but my grandkids could, but dont expect the greedy mining pols to put your transaction into a block ASAP
3) will pools then cease to be viable?
maybe, but this is a question you are asking answers for, that only apply in over 100 years, so no concern for you. but the answer to question 1 will atleast point you in the right direction.
4) since fees will be based on byte size of transaction, what impact will using different bitcoin addresses for each transaction be versus nout having different ones?
right now it seems the people pushing for single use addresses EG Luke Jr and death&taxes seem to be also pushing for people to send a fee with every transaction. meaning no matter what, pool owners/miners will want to be paid

right now i beleive the block rewads are more then enough for miners. and that it is greed at the expense of helping the community that these miners demand payment. only when block rewards disapear, then and ONLY then will paying fee's be part of helping the community, and only then would it appear greedy for individuals to not want to pay a nominal small fee. again over 100 years time.
why do i say bloc rewards are more then enough?
because in 2012 50BTC averaged at $6=$300 for 10 minutes work
today 25BTC averaging at $600=$15000 for 10 minutes work

there needs to be a shift away from the concept that mining is the only way to make money in bitcoin, and get people into retailing. EG selling coffee, tea, food, clothing for profit. much like how the gold miners hung up their pickaxes and opened saloons and distilleries and asked for gold as payment.

lets say 2012 based on minimum wage.. the reward was enough for 300 miners to be given $6 an hour
today with todays price (based on minimum wage) the reward is enough for 15,000 miners to be given $6 an hour. promoting more then 15,000 to work is slave labour, causing miners to then spend more money to get a bigger slice of the pie ( pay rise) which is backfiring by causing the difficulty to jump higher and higher. basically shooting themselves in the foot and demanding extra money from other means (EG merge mining and demanding fee's)

pool mining owners need to realise that if there are (random number dont knitpick) 15 main pools around they need to set a limit of 1000 miners
to ensure each miner gets a nice regular income

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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