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Author Topic: We control the prices... Not these bears. We got what they can't have...  (Read 2173 times)
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August 04, 2011, 02:15:47 AM
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Miners you SEE... YOU CONTROL THE PRICES!!! PULL ALL YOUR SELL ORDERS NOW!!

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Zem
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August 04, 2011, 02:20:13 AM
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What about people that have tens of thousands of coins to play and manipulate with?
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August 04, 2011, 02:41:52 AM
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Lets see how good of an idea this is. Say your a miner and you pull your sell order out, will all other miners do the same?
With bitcoins price that continues to fall, you will hold your bitcoins and they will become worthless. Do you really want your mining operations to actually cost you money? Sell as fast as you can in a falling market, or somebody else will sell and take money that could have been yours.

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August 04, 2011, 02:47:48 AM
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Quote
Lets see how good of an idea this is. Say your a miner and you pull your sell order out, will all other miners do the same?
With bitcoins price that continues to fall, you will hold your bitcoins and they will become worthless. Do you really want your mining operations to actually cost you money? Sell as fast as you can in a falling market, or somebody else will sell and take money that could have been yours.

Respectfully, I disagree.  Your mining profit over the next 6 months, year, 2 years, is far more important than your profit over the next few days.  It is actually smart to wait out a panic sell, and not follow the lemmings.  Remember, the name of the game is buy low sell high, not the reverse.

Even Warren Buffet says, "Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful."

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August 04, 2011, 02:54:44 AM
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warren buffet also admits the dynamics have recently changed and he has no clue what's going on
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August 04, 2011, 03:07:21 AM
 #6

Miners you SEE... YOU CONTROL THE PRICES!!! PULL ALL YOUR SELL ORDERS NOW!!

You sound a little desperate.  Bold text and capitalised.  Have you paid off your mining rigs yet?  I think we know the answer to that question.

Miners do not control bitcoin's value.  The market does.  Bitcoins could fall to $5 tomorrow and there's nothing miners could do about it.  There are already more than enough bitcoins out there for investors and speculators to play with.  Even if every miner pulled out tomorrow there would be no upward change in value.  If anything, value would suddenly plummet as transactions would take days to process.  It's a fundamental point that's often lost on these forums.  People thinking mining activity and difficulty drive price upwards.

I have a transaction coming in from DeepBit at the moment.  6 hours and zero confirmations.  Imagine running a business this way.  "Thank you for your payment sir, please wait a day at the checkout"

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August 04, 2011, 03:09:30 AM
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Miners you SEE... YOU CONTROL THE PRICES!!! PULL ALL YOUR SELL ORDERS NOW!!

You sound a little desperate.  Bold text and capitalised.  Have you paid off your mining rigs yet?  I think we know the answer to that question.

Miners do not control bitcoin's value.  The market does.  Bitcoins could fall to $5 tomorrow and there's nothing miners could do about it.  There are already more than enough bitcoins out there for investors and speculators to play with.  Even if every miner pulled out tomorrow there would be no upward change in value.  If anything, value would suddenly plummet as transactions would take days to process.  It's a fundamental point that's often lost on these forums.  People thinking mining activity and difficulty drive price upwards.

I have a transaction coming in from DeepBit at the moment.  6 hours and zero confirmations.  Imagine running a business this way.  "Thank you for your payment sir, please wait a day at the checkout"
Bitcoins can only drop to $5 a coin, if the miners decide to sell them at that price...  Grin . I for one won't sell you my Bitcoins for five bucks. No way, they are worth way more than that, and me and you both know that Smiley.

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August 04, 2011, 03:15:02 AM
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Bitcoins can only drop to $5 a coin, if the miners decide to sell them at that price...  Grin . I for one won't sell you my Bitcoins for five bucks. No way, they are worth way more than that, and me and you both know that Smiley.

I wouldn't sell a bitcoin for $5 either.  It costs more in electricity to produce at the current difficulty rate.  The problem is no one really knows how many people are out there with bitcoins mined when difficulty was 1/10th what it is today, or speculators/investors who bought in at 50c a bitcoin.  They would be quite happy to sell a bitcoin at $5 if they thought the price wasn't going to go higher.


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August 04, 2011, 03:16:58 AM
 #9

just put up a sell order @ $11.1, 10 BTC. Hopefully somebody takes it.

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August 04, 2011, 03:17:37 AM
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I wouldn't sell a bitcoin for $5 either.  It costs more in electricity to produce at the current difficulty rate.  The problem is no one really knows how many people are out there with bitcoins mined when difficulty was 1/10th what it is today, or speculators/investors who bought in at 50c a bitcoin.  They would be quite happy to sell a bitcoin at $5 if they thought the price wasn't going to go higher.

The number of coins mined at 1/10th current difficulty, and bought by speculators at 50 cents each, is finite. Sure, those people might end up selling at $5, but when those coins are gone, then miners have a majority of potential supply.

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August 04, 2011, 06:03:48 AM
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just put up a sell order @ $11.1, 10 BTC. Hopefully somebody takes it.
WTF? 10 BTC is nothing...
trolling?

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August 04, 2011, 06:08:28 AM
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just put up a sell order @ $11.1, 10 BTC. Hopefully somebody takes it.
WTF? 10 BTC is nothing...
trolling?

NOt trolling. Selling. Actually the order was executed at $11.07, 10.54 BTC in total. Well, I recieved the coins as the payment from a guy in the forum who is supposed to pay me in $116 for buying my Radeon 5830 card. And I'm happy to sell considering the price went to under $9 today. BTW, the majority of my coins were sold at $13.

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August 04, 2011, 09:14:44 AM
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Because miners will sell at almost any selling price (not everyone but the ones that have made heavy investments in new rigs), its the buyer (the one that put in real USD in to the exchanges) that decide the price, I would guess if they understand that, the price should be around 5 dollars now.
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August 04, 2011, 09:32:14 AM
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but the Miners are extremely stupid to give all the Bitcoins to the market instead hold them in bad times and slowly sell in good times...
there are to many sellers who dont make it possible to raise the price...
the other direction: the sellers won't sell under 9-10 bux (right now)
theire both who decide the price
but the sellers have to be careful! buyers won't have an infinite amount of money

Fazit:
The Miners shall hold all the bitcoins and wait until ther is more positive going on again in the world of BTC and then sell particially and get much more money!
The miners and large investors control the market why dont you want the price go up? you could make much more money and make bitcoin a real currency!

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August 04, 2011, 10:01:41 AM
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I want the price to go up, but why should I buy now when I know at current rate bitcoins are created at a rate of
365 x 7200 x 10 dollars =  26 280 000 dollars / year . With all that has happened last weeks I can't see that it will get in big amounts of money in to the bitcoin economy anytime soon, 26 million dollars is only the printing press (or inflation) of newly created money, besides that we have 7 million bitcoins in circulation already, or in USD terms, 7 000 000 x 10 = 70 000 000 USD that can at any point be sold at the exchanges. You do the math.

After all things that have happened, do you see big deposit coming in soon at the big exchanges, because I can promise you this, the miners will sell at 10 dollars, even at 7-8 dollars they still make a good profit if they have pretty low electric costs. Because they have already made good money on their business, they will probably sell even at 6 dollars. Panic on that and you will maybe see 5 or even 4 dollar prices very soon.

26 MILLION dollars is a lot of money being created this coming year (aug 2011 - aug 2012), get that! Compare that to what people have invested in mining rigs, is not even close to those numbers. Miners are right now the winners because the direct buyer don't understand economics.
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August 04, 2011, 10:38:16 AM
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I don't know what all this fuzz is even about. It's hilarious though. All the miners who think their coins are worth more, they should not only stop selling, but start BUYING. Put all your cash online and see where it gets you.

Until then the market will have its way, and at the moment we are pointing downwards. Basically to the point where fresh money added to the market will be able to meet up with the daily supply of 7200 coins. If miners won't sell now it won't change a thing. They will all sell later much lower, thinking how stupid were they trying to fight the market. Seems like some don't even understand what that means.

New trading channel will most likely be $9 to $11, until next batch of 200k coins (in a month or three ) won't be able to meet the demand for all these coins and lower we go again. All this mumbo jumbo about bitcoins being worth more is based on the fact that price got so high, when everyone and their grandma was hyping this all over the internet. The result was we got a group of fools who started depositing all this extra cash all of a sudden buying 500k coins and running price  from $10 to $33. It was a perfect setup. Well problem is, there is 7 million coins out there and most of those were mined when price was well below $5 not to even mention all the stuff from pre April time when price was sub $1.

Good luck to all the miners not selling here and now.
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August 04, 2011, 11:02:48 AM
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I want the price to go up, but why should I buy now when I know at current rate bitcoins are created at a rate of
365 x 7200 x 10 dollars =  26 280 000 dollars / year . With all that has happened last weeks I can't see that it will get in big amounts of money in to the bitcoin economy anytime soon, 26 million dollars is only the printing press (or inflation) of newly created money, besides that we have 7 million bitcoins in circulation already, or in USD terms, 7 000 000 x 10 = 70 000 000 USD that can at any point be sold at the exchanges. You do the math.

After all things that have happened, do you see big deposit coming in soon at the big exchanges, because I can promise you this, the miners will sell at 10 dollars, even at 7-8 dollars they still make a good profit if they have pretty low electric costs. Because they have already made good money on their business, they will probably sell even at 6 dollars. Panic on that and you will maybe see 5 or even 4 dollar prices very soon.

26 MILLION dollars is a lot of money being created this coming year (aug 2011 - aug 2012), get that! Compare that to what people have invested in mining rigs, is not even close to those numbers. Miners are right now the winners because the direct buyer don't understand economics.
shure they are, but they could win more...
lets see: you can produce bitcoins without putting them on the market, what means, the miners could hold the value higher and get more money...

i think the aim is to get much more investors, this is only possible, if there is more in the mainstream media, whitch comes automatically, with a higher price (>20$) and with a stable increase of the value...

MINERS! QUIT WITH FEAR AND THINK LONGTERM!


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August 04, 2011, 11:20:03 AM
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I want the price to go up, but why should I buy now when I know at current rate bitcoins are created at a rate of
365 x 7200 x 10 dollars =  26 280 000 dollars / year . With all that has happened last weeks I can't see that it will get in big amounts of money in to the bitcoin economy anytime soon, 26 million dollars is only the printing press (or inflation) of newly created money, besides that we have 7 million bitcoins in circulation already, or in USD terms, 7 000 000 x 10 = 70 000 000 USD that can at any point be sold at the exchanges. You do the math.

After all things that have happened, do you see big deposit coming in soon at the big exchanges, because I can promise you this, the miners will sell at 10 dollars, even at 7-8 dollars they still make a good profit if they have pretty low electric costs. Because they have already made good money on their business, they will probably sell even at 6 dollars. Panic on that and you will maybe see 5 or even 4 dollar prices very soon.

26 MILLION dollars is a lot of money being created this coming year (aug 2011 - aug 2012), get that! Compare that to what people have invested in mining rigs, is not even close to those numbers. Miners are right now the winners because the direct buyer don't understand economics.
shure they are, but they could win more...
lets see: you can produce bitcoins without putting them on the market, what means, the miners could hold the value higher and get more money...

i think the aim is to get much more investors, this is only possible, if there is more in the mainstream media, whitch comes automatically, with a higher price (>20$) and with a stable increase of the value...

MINERS! QUIT WITH FEAR AND THINK LONGTERM!




Then you are speculating, and speculators usually lose their money in the long run. Start investing smart. If you as a direct buyer buy the newly created bitcoins from the miner, you will do two things, you are the one that pays his profit, and you are the one that will want him to invest more in his mining business. As a direct buyer you should think the other way around, you want to make the miner think, "wait now, isn't it better to invest directly in the currency?", that after that YOU have bought in, then and only then you as a direct buyer are the winner(as an investor), if prices remain at this levels the miner is the one that makes money on you holding your bitcoins, or even more true the ones that buy today.
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August 04, 2011, 01:18:19 PM
 #19

The Miners shall hold all the bitcoins and wait until ther is more positive going on again in the world of BTC and then sell particially and get much more money!
The miners and large investors control the market why dont you want the price go up? you could make much more money and make bitcoin a real currency!

Mmm, this very much reminds me of investors in shares who are seeing the value of their shares going down.  "Idiots! Stop selling! The stock would go up if they all did what I say"  The problem is, each person acts on their own and in their own interests.  The tragedy of the commons, if you will.

If you truly believe people are artificially driving down the price of bitcoins through panic and fear, then I suggest loading up your MtGox account with Euros or dollars and buying as many bitcoins as you can.  You'll either be rich, or eating baked beans for the next few years.  Either way, if things don't turn out your way you can blame everyone else :-)

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August 04, 2011, 02:44:16 PM
 #20

(...)
large investors control the market why dont you want the price go up?
you could make much more money and make bitcoin a real currency!

Especially the large investors are interested in volatility. Selling a couple thousand bitcoins into an already crashing market will surely drive the price way lower. That way, you're able to rebuy at a lower exchange rate, once volume catches up in those lower areas. Effectively, you'll end up with more bitcoins without having to pay anything.
That's why your idea of investors wanting the price to go up is wrong. They simply don't care, as long as things keep moving.

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
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