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Author Topic: The question going through everyone's mind.  (Read 3450 times)
Rezree
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November 23, 2013, 01:52:52 AM
 #21

I think the biggest misunderstanding regarding crypto currency is that it's compared to regular fiat transactions when in fact it resembles cash much more. Before the internet and credit cards, we would use cash which was, and still is, very difficult to keep track of. Now that people are increasingly using the internet for shopping instead of physically going to a store, bitcoin lets us pay anonymously just like if we paid a shopkeeper in cash, without them ever knowing our name and who we are.

Physical cash is still used without tracking to purchase illegal goods. Short of discontinuing it altogether there really is no practical way to avoid this and with bitcoin, just like cash, the pro's massively outweigh the con's. Should we also stop selling steak knives and paper weights, because someone might use them to hurt someone?

What's even funnier, is that e.g. in the US guns are sold quite freely and they have but one purpose, but somehow bitcoin gets a bad rep just because a fraction of the population uses it for illegal purposes.
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TheButterZone
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November 23, 2013, 02:03:01 AM
 #22

What's even funnier, is that e.g. in the US guns are sold quite freely and they have but one purpose, but somehow bitcoin gets a bad rep just because a fraction of the population uses it for illegal purposes.

Guns have multiple purposes, the least of them being "to kill" (according to mortality statistics, which show that most GSWs aren't fatal). Despite millions more justified uses by innocent victims than criminal ones, and the BS that "guns are sold quite freely", the exercise of the human right to effective self-defense is nearly infringed into oblivion.

Expect the same googolplex lightyears of liberty taken from BTC if a fraction of an inch is given to the totalitarians.

Mondy
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November 23, 2013, 02:10:59 AM
 #23

You don't. 

Do I win a prize?

Well then.. bitcoin will always be cast in a bad light...

cr1776
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November 23, 2013, 02:37:35 AM
 #24

You don't. 

Do I win a prize?

Well then.. bitcoin will always be cast in a bad light...

The Statist authoritarians always cast anything that could take away their control in a bad light. The same group has been fighting for power for centuries.  Their goal is to rule you.
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November 23, 2013, 02:59:27 AM
 #25

How is China doing it?

“We have taken note of the development of bitcoin and have adopted measures to prevent money laundering through its trade,”

http://bitcoinblogger.com/taiwanese-and-chinese-central-banks-in-agreement-bitcoin-is-a-virtual-commodity/


Step 1: go after the large "exchanges" and plant them firmly in your pocket (can someone explain how coinbase isn't violating a whole lotta money transmittion laws?
Step 2: require multiple IDs and certainty of who is 'exchanging' maybe even form an official centralized exchange since you can offer the lowest price that noone else can beat, and you're proven safe and secure! even offer instant exchanges right into your visa debit card! heck maybe even end the concept that private companies can be exchanges! Why not!
Step 3: that blockchain is way too large for someone's computer now that all these transactions go through it! enforce the use of official clients that tie in to your amazon / ebay accounts and are usable at any target or starbucks! sign me up!
step 4: yay, everything's documented, a layer above this spooky crypto layer!

b-b-b-but you can just fork the bitcoin chain! sure, then you have the "shady underworld" and the "i opt in to being 100% traceable" chains! which will you prefer? the one that can reverse charges (for a fee of course)?


This FUD brought to you by every government in the world.

(after they do this they're gonna get around to shutting down bittorrent, too)


DQGEWoWB4Gn1cSwpPaibL2KMEZ2HAzEQdB
franky1
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November 23, 2013, 03:13:51 AM
 #26

At least the one going through mine..

How do you legislate around bitcoin, in order to take down the bad guys (like murderers, terrorists, not to mention drug deals, sex traffic, etc.) without bearing down too heavily on innovative businesses or shutting out potential markets?


THAT my friends, is the question...or its at least one of them.

regulation and legislation around bitcoin does not stop crimes.. it just stops people getting paid for it. but no matter if it bunny rabbit credits, gold, bank notes or another countries legal tender. government do not need to track every transaction to a name and address.. "following the money" is just one option

government for centuries have been able to capture murderers and other notorious criminals without asking everyone to mark bank notes with their name and zip/postal code. so bitcoin does not need to implement any ID for each TX either. i do say if your doing large volume of funds transfer into fiat then obiding by the ID rules can benefit some issues. but there is no need for ID for every tx of bitcoin peer-2-peer.

and this is coming from a high moral person that has only stolen 50c of sweets as a kid as being the worse crime i ever done.

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callem
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November 23, 2013, 03:32:50 AM
 #27

It's a law enforcement issue, not a currency issue.

Anything that can be done with a suitcase full of cash can be done with bitcoin. Laws already exist to deal with financial crime.
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November 23, 2013, 04:08:02 AM
 #28

How do we keep people who use Bitcoin to buy offensive things like ... religious material such as some forms of Christianity?

A mark on your hand or forehead?  Something with a "666" somewhere in it?

Quote from: Revelation 13 (NIV)
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

1BitcHiCK1iRa6YVY6qDqC6M594RBYLNPo
CBitz
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November 23, 2013, 05:59:52 AM
 #29

It's a law enforcement issue, not a currency issue.

Anything that can be done with a suitcase full of cash can be done with bitcoin. Laws already exist to deal with financial crime.


Can you send a suitcase full of cash to the other side of the world in less than a minute? It's a law enforcement issue and a currency issue.
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November 23, 2013, 07:21:38 AM
 #30

It's a law enforcement issue, not a currency issue.

Anything that can be done with a suitcase full of cash can be done with bitcoin. Laws already exist to deal with financial crime.


Can you send a suitcase full of cash to the other side of the world in less than a minute? It's a law enforcement issue and a currency issue.

nope, but with bitcoin yes!

            ███           ▄▄▄████████▄▄▄           ███       ▀███          ▀██▄ ▄██▀          ███▀
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            ███     ███                    ███     ███               ███▄██▀       ▀██▄██▀
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██▄▄▄  ▄▄▄███▀          ▀████▄▄    ▄▄████▀          ▀███▄▄▄  ▄▄▄██     ███           ███
▀▀████████▀▀              ▀▀▀████████▀▀▀              ▀▀████████▀▀     ███           ███
........T H E   F U T U R E.................
......................o f   B E A U T Y
........


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Rezree
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November 23, 2013, 10:57:42 AM
 #31

What's even funnier, is that e.g. in the US guns are sold quite freely and they have but one purpose, but somehow bitcoin gets a bad rep just because a fraction of the population uses it for illegal purposes.

Guns have multiple purposes, the least of them being "to kill" (according to mortality statistics, which show that most GSWs aren't fatal). Despite millions more justified uses by innocent victims than criminal ones, and the BS that "guns are sold quite freely", the exercise of the human right to effective self-defense is nearly infringed into oblivion.

Expect the same googolplex lightyears of liberty taken from BTC if a fraction of an inch is given to the totalitarians.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. What purpose does a gun have, apart from harming living creatures?
TheButterZone
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November 23, 2013, 11:24:11 AM
 #32

What's even funnier, is that e.g. in the US guns are sold quite freely and they have but one purpose, but somehow bitcoin gets a bad rep just because a fraction of the population uses it for illegal purposes.

Guns have multiple purposes, the least of them being "to kill" (according to mortality statistics, which show that most GSWs aren't fatal). Despite millions more justified uses by innocent victims than criminal ones, and the BS that "guns are sold quite freely", the exercise of the human right to effective self-defense is nearly infringed into oblivion.

Expect the same googolplex lightyears of liberty taken from BTC if a fraction of an inch is given to the totalitarians.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. What purpose does a gun have, apart from harming living creatures?

How is forcing a violent criminal to surrender without firing a shot "harming living creatures"? Whose fucking side are you on? With BS lines like that, it's certainly not innocent victims'.

callem
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November 23, 2013, 02:07:11 PM
 #33

It's a law enforcement issue, not a currency issue.

Anything that can be done with a suitcase full of cash can be done with bitcoin. Laws already exist to deal with financial crime.


Can you send a suitcase full of cash to the other side of the world in less than a minute? It's a law enforcement issue and a currency issue.

The invention of the wheel made it much faster to cart gold around too.
CBitz
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November 23, 2013, 03:01:21 PM
 #34

It's a law enforcement issue, not a currency issue.

Anything that can be done with a suitcase full of cash can be done with bitcoin. Laws already exist to deal with financial crime.


Can you send a suitcase full of cash to the other side of the world in less than a minute? It's a law enforcement issue and a currency issue.

The invention of the wheel made it much faster to cart gold around too.


That's not the point of my post. You're argument is that nothing needs to change, but just as currency has evolved laws will evolve. It's one thing to want everything to stay the same, but it's another thing to be realistic and realize legislation is coming. Too much money is changing hands for the power heads not to want a cut of it. Too much money is also being spent "illegally" for them to turn a blind eye to it. The fact legislation is coming makes it a currency issue.   
Rezree
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November 24, 2013, 12:19:51 AM
 #35

What's even funnier, is that e.g. in the US guns are sold quite freely and they have but one purpose, but somehow bitcoin gets a bad rep just because a fraction of the population uses it for illegal purposes.

Guns have multiple purposes, the least of them being "to kill" (according to mortality statistics, which show that most GSWs aren't fatal). Despite millions more justified uses by innocent victims than criminal ones, and the BS that "guns are sold quite freely", the exercise of the human right to effective self-defense is nearly infringed into oblivion.

Expect the same googolplex lightyears of liberty taken from BTC if a fraction of an inch is given to the totalitarians.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. What purpose does a gun have, apart from harming living creatures?

How is forcing a violent criminal to surrender without firing a shot "harming living creatures"? Whose fucking side are you on? With BS lines like that, it's certainly not innocent victims'.

Dude, chill. The only point I was making when talking about guns vs. btc is that btc in its essence is benign whereas guns are not. I'm not discussing the validity of using a gun for self defense. 
jojo69
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November 24, 2013, 05:32:23 AM
 #36

statist bitcoiners

I really just don't get it

 Huh

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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November 24, 2013, 07:57:06 AM
 #37

statist bitcoiners

I really just don't get it

 Huh

Many people are getting into Bitcoin for many reasons, many of them seeing only understanding portions of the advantage of Bitcoin such as making money or low transaction costs.

When governments fall they will be quite confused as to how it happened.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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November 24, 2013, 09:01:51 AM
 #38

Get some relationships and infrastructure in place, then wait for the big 'cyber 9/11' so that the laws which become possible afterwards will have some teeth.

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