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Author Topic: A Noobs Discoveries (ALT Coin)  (Read 971 times)
bluelogic
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November 22, 2013, 09:31:55 AM
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Hey everyone this is my first post so I figure instead of a typical introduction I give back with some noob advice from by trial by fire.  So I’ll start with boring stuff first.  I have ONE computer mining with a 7850 in California.  I started mining Litecoin in the beginning just to see how it works.  I’m not a long term investor but I find it kind of exciting to convert energy to coins to dollars.  So on to the good stuff.

Do your research!
•   Mining is all about the number of kH/s vs number of watts
•   Don’t mine for Bitcoin (waste of time)
•   Don’t mine with a CPU
•   Don’t mine with a laptop
•   Don’t mine with a Nvidia GPU
•   Don’t mine if you have a crappy power supply
•   Don’t mine if you have something lower than a ATI 7850
•   Don’t mine if you don’t have this: http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4460-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B000RGF29Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1385106130&sr=8-2&keywords=kill+a+watt
•   Don’t mine if you can’t read your electric bill
•   Real work will always be better than mining
•   Mining will stress out your GPU so save that warranty information

What to mine?
This is debatable and will depend on what you are hoping for.  I’m going to say right now I’m not a long term investor and right now will mine as long as I make more than I put in.  So when deciding to mine an alt coin you can choose one and hold or you can use something like Middlecoin or MultiPool to max out the profits.  When starting out I went with Middlecoin because it gives 24 hour metrics with all the fees included and can be a good baseline measurement.

Show me the money
You have to have a place to put your money first.  Coinbase seems to have the lowest fees and handles direct deposit to your bank.  This fee is
•   1% of the dollars amount + $0.15
In the above example I used Middlecoin and the fee is 3.388% of your BTC; however, there is no exchange middle man or transfer from exchange to Coinbase steps needed.  You can find pools that suit you better and shave off this fee which can be pretty significant such as Multipool which is 1.5%; however, Middlecoin seems to have a pretty stable system.  So while Middlecoin has a higher fee you are not getting as many rejections which can hurt you more than fees.
So time for an example
I mine with one ATI 7850 on low intensity and get about 300 KH/s.  Middlecoin shows in 24 hours I get 0.00260795 BTC.
Converted to dollars on Coinbase as of 11/22 that is $1.70
Now remember that energy measuring device I mentioned above this is where it matter.  Measured under full load I get 256 Watts
Looking at my energy bill I’m on a two tier system were tier one is 0.09$/KWH and tier two is 0.1789/KWH.  This is a huge difference and has a huge impact on your profits.  So 24 hours of mining cost in power
24 hours X 0.256 KWatts X 0.1789 (Worst Case Scenario) = $1.09
Total Profits per day is drumroll……$0.61!!! or $19/month.  Don’t QUIT your day job.

Lessons Learned
•   Mining is great in the winter and works well as a space heater no need to use gas heater
•   Mining has made me more energy aware.  I look at everything to lower my energy cost and increase my profits
•   Do not talk to your girlfriend or wife about bitcoin. They will look at your funny.
•   A PV solar will return more money than Alt coin from net metering

Plans for the future
I got two Sapphire 7970 Dual X OC with boost for $520 with $50 in rebates and $60 in free game cards that I plan to sell on ebay for a total of $410.  These card should run at 700 KH/s netting me 1400 with the two.  I wanted the cards anyway so I don’t care if I make a profit.
Should be 400 watts per system so 800 watts or .8 KWatts
In one day this is 0.0128
Converted to dollars on Coinbase as of 11/22 that is $8.98
24 Hours x 0.8 KWatts x 0.1789 (Worst Case Scenario) = $3.43
Total profits per day is: $5.54 or $166/month.
So the cards pay for themselves if nothing changes (cough) difficulty/price in 2 Months.  I haven’t decided yet if I wanted to also you the 7850 with one of the system. 
I only have a 630 watt power supply and a 430 watt power supply so I’m thinking of putting the 7970 with the other 7970 in the 630 watt and the 7850 leaving in the 430 watt until I buy another power supply.  One thing is for sure to be an effective miner you need at least 750 watts+.

If you got this far thanks for reading and I appreciate your feedback.
Bluelogic
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Blade Walker
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November 22, 2013, 12:31:57 PM
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Thanks for sharing your noob experience and helping other noobs like myself out who are new to mining, very informative   Grin
Okurkabinladin
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November 22, 2013, 12:51:32 PM
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I noticed the outcries of some (latecoming) miners, but haven´t realized it is this bad. It resembles alaskan goldrush, where the most proftable weren´t miners and adventurers but merchants who sold guns and shovels  Angry or in this case - ASIC manufacturing corporations and exchange owners.
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November 22, 2013, 12:57:54 PM
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Middlecoin do you mean middlecoin.com? Thanks for share.
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November 22, 2013, 01:14:45 PM
 #5

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Best of luck with your future plans!  Cheesy

"The Internet unshackled information, Satoshi Nakamoto unshackled money. And money makes the world go round."
bittech9438
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November 22, 2013, 03:03:27 PM
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Thanks for sharing your discoveries on mining as well.

I've found that the Litecoin Mining Hardware Comparison page is super helpful for evaluating video cards and rig configurations. It is here: https://litecoin.info/Mining_hardware_comparison.

Also don't forget to factor in the energy costs of the PSU efficiency and the power costs of the overall computer as well into your calculations. I like 7950s for mining, particularly the Gigabyte 7950 - GV-R795WF3-3GD and the Sapphire Vapor-X 7950. I like to buy these at a discount for about $200 a card from ebay, craigslist, newegg (with sales) and amazon.

Good luck!
mjcoin
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November 22, 2013, 03:24:07 PM
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This is great post for all wannabe miners. I think that people need to read and learn first, and then to mine.
bittech9438
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November 22, 2013, 03:35:38 PM
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On mining efficiency:

One other thing that I've found with tuning the cards is to optimize for power efficiency. Make sure you get cards with unlocked voltages so you can do this. I've been able to lower the power usage of my 7950's from 225 watts down to about 175 watts under full load while still getting good hash rates. The cards are most efficient when running about at or below stock speeds but undervolted (.962v instead of stock 1.25v). You'll also need a kill-a-watt meter to measure power usage at the plug if you don't already have one.
Heutenamos
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November 22, 2013, 03:50:55 PM
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•   Don’t mine for Bitcoin (waste of time)

Lol, depends on price of equipment. For first Avalon users = golden mine. But you must buy the ASIC cheap to be profitable today



yo
bluelogic
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November 22, 2013, 03:55:34 PM
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All-

Thanks for the replies.   I wanted to provide some feedback.  

1.  YES mining right now is a good rush and the general stores (Newegg, Frys, TigerDirect, ASIC manufacturing are making all the REAL money)

2.  Here are the websites I mentioned

Middlecoin.com
www.multipool.in

3.  bittech9438 (You sir are awesome)

The P3 - Kill A Watt device will tell you your TOTAL draw it is a cheap must have device in my original post.  I got 2 x Sapphire 7970 Dual X OC with boost mainly because I got them at a good price and I wanted them anyway but because they have working profiles that get around 700 kH/s.  Also I just read they are voltage unlocked and I can use MSI Afterburner to do so.  What is the lowest voltage I can go?

Bluelogic
reannypleas
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November 22, 2013, 04:03:50 PM
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Don’t mine if you have something lower than a ATI 7850


ATI 5850 works well, these cards are cheap and with low electricty costs slightly profitable

bluelogic
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November 22, 2013, 04:09:56 PM
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Reannypleas,

I agree if you already have it.  Very hard to find.  There are some other cards that will work as well.  I went with what is a nice video card at a cheap price today.

Thanks
Bluelogic
bluelogic
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November 23, 2013, 08:49:03 AM
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All-

An update.  So I installed the two 7970 Sapphire Dual X video cards and undervolted them a little.  They are pulling 666 watts from the wall.  This is kind of high for a 650 watt power supply so I'm thinking I need to get a new one.  Out of the box using CGMiner I get 1250 KH/s at 80 degrees for the card on the high slot.  My girlfriend made me a deal to pay the electric bill with my coins so we will see how that goes.  I'm thinking of trying Reaper in the future to get 1400 KH/s but right now I'm happy with the results. 

I could use some advice on the power supply.
What is a safe undervolt to use on the 7970? I have it set to a GPU Volt of 1100 MV

Thanks for your help
Bluelogic
M3gaman
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November 23, 2013, 03:28:38 PM
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Same hardware is used to mine 256 coins and Scrypt coins?

MΣC | MHw5HB1vCakMP1mUPQsAMdsNkVy6pEjtoV
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bluelogic
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November 23, 2013, 05:26:04 PM
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M3gaman,

No only mining scrypt because 256 is way to difficult.

All,

I did some tweaking yesterday the video cards are voltage unlocked.  I was able to increase the hash rate to 1340 GH/s with the top card running at 76 degree and the bottom at 66 degrees.  My Kill-A-Watt registers the reduced voltage as well to a reduced total power draw of 560 watts at full load.  I think I can go lower if I had a better power supply.

Bluelogic
balaks
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November 23, 2013, 09:07:52 PM
 #16

I am still struggling to understand the process involved in mining, but would like to give it a try - I own a tiny value of bitcoin and a reasonable about of some alt-coins.

Does the amount of coinage you can generate for yourself via mining go up or down depending on the current value of the currency?
bluelogic
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November 24, 2013, 09:11:11 AM
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Balaks,

No the amount of coinage you generate is based entirely on the mining difficulty of the coin and your equipment.  Check out dustcoin : http://dustcoin.com/mining.  Since mining Bitcoins is kind of difficult with high barriers to entry many people are mining the alt coins like Litecoin and trading for Bitcoins on an exchange.  Since the price of Bitcoin is going up due to the current bubble your converted Bitcoins can be sold on coinbase to USD.

Bluelogic
Telosaur
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November 24, 2013, 09:25:07 AM
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Does the amount of coinage you can generate for yourself via mining go up or down depending on the current value of the currency?

This is determined by the 'difficulty' of the coin, which fluctuates depending on the rate at which people mine it. The value of the coin is somewhat correlated with difficulty - coins that are harder to mine have a better value, which is why coins that pay out lots of rewards are worth the least upon starting. This is a basic principle and there lots of other factors that influence the coin's worth too, like the release, community reception etc. Have a gander at http://www.coinchoose.com/ and note the patterns between the number of blocks, coin reward, difficult, and BTC worth Smiley
Sue Donim
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November 24, 2013, 10:10:10 AM
 #19

sounds like good advice but as I only cloud mine at CSX.io what do I know?! The bit that I do know for sure is right


•   Do not talk to your girlfriend or wife about bitcoin. They will look at your funny.

Very true. Sage advice Shocked
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November 24, 2013, 10:29:54 AM
 #20

well CPU mining is OK if you mining only CPU mining cryptos (like PRIMECOIN ...), and you have i7 or large numbers of computers

IoTA
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