Banned Account Question

[botany]

I hope this puts an end to the discussion here. I was beginning to get worried that a small clique of older members could get the rules bent. Thankfully, this is not the case.
Now we do not have to be worried about other spammers using this as a precedent.

Yet Lone Shark[1] has been unbanned, meaning that the rules have already been bent. Your hypocrisy is astounding.
[1] I have nothing against this user.

Look at the number of people who have been tagged by DT members for so called spamming (whilest the moderators do not think that these accounts deserve even a temporary ban). Yet the very same people are here defending plagiarism, which has resulted in a permanent ban. I find it amusing that you are calling me a hypocrite.  
My stance has always been the same. Plagiarism should result in a permanent ban.

[1715026126]

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[1715026126]

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[Lauda]

My stance has always been the same. Plagiarism should result in a permanent ban.

I wonder what the incentive behind that is.

Look at the number of people who have been tagged by DT members for so called spamming (whilest the moderators do not think that these accounts deserve even a temporary ban). Yet the very same people are here defending plagiarism, which has resulted in a permanent ban. I find it amusing that you are calling me a hypocrite.  

I am not tagging people for spamming, and I believe that nobody else is doing that right now either. You've proven yourself to be a biased hypocrite. Since you clearly have nothing useful to say, move along.

Either way, the support he's garnered here should mean something.  Rules are rules, but the community's voice should be given the appropriate weight as far as what the consequences are to copy/pasting.

Some people appeal to decentralization when it suits them, and not when it doesn't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think Chi might be worth making an exception for? He seems to actually contribute, more than Loan Shark (imo) did anyway, and Lone Shark was unbanned from his copy/pasting ban.

[hilariousetc]

But copy and pasting is black and white: Copy and paste = ban.

You could have argued that before, but after 1 exception has been made you no longer can.

And this is the exact issue in unbanning even one person creates. Lone shark shouldn't have been unbanned without adding exceptions to the rules for everyone not just one case. We should look at that decision as a hasty error that wasn't thought through properly and we certainly shouldn't be using that one case as a reason to acquiesce to this one unless defined exceptions are made.

Making exceptions to the rule just screams of favouritism or nepotism and doing so is opening up a huge can of worms that we're going to have to deal with when everybody else starts making their case to be unbanned. What grounds do we give exceptions to plagiarism from now on? If they have a few friends here? They've done a few trades? They have sick relatives? They're a Senior Member and above? They've done a giveaway? They've made a helpful post? To me this is literally just bending or re-writing the rules to serve a friend of somebody and nobody has been asking for exceptions to the rule before this.

I don't think you could set up a "grading check mark kind of list" for something like that. When it comes to making exceptions, it should be a case-by-case basis but that would involve a lot of work (obviously).

But then this is just opening it up to abuse and complaints when mods start unbanning people they like or when friends of people kick up a fuss. We can't say copy and pastes = ban, unless a mod decides otherwise based on no defined criteria.

[Lauda]

And this is the exact issue in unbanning even one person creates. Lone shark shouldn't have been unbanned without adding exceptions to the rules for everyone not just one case. We should look at that decision as a hasty error that wasn't thought through properly and we certainly shouldn't be using that one case as a reason to acquiesce to this one unless defined exceptions are made.

I don't want to look at it with it remaining unanswered. There are a few out somewhat fair options: a) Explanation of that case (then follow up discussion/conclusion). b) Reinstate the ban Loan Shark and keep ban on OP (and make no exceptions moving forth). c) Leave Loan Shark as is, unban OP and *somewhat define* potential exceptions (theymos did address this to some extent, but it is definitely not enough to be used as a reference).
Avoiding a) implies that the staff member in question is being protected from criticism, which I understand but not necessarily agree with (in all cases).

But then this is just opening it up to abuse and complaints when mods start unbanning people they like or when friends of people kick up a fuss. We can't say copy and pastes = ban, unless a mod decides otherwise based on no defined criteria.

It does, but you also thinking that you are going to come across a numerous cases of people getting banned for this and having notable names (people actively trading inside the Collectibles sections are notable in this context; that's a special area as is) requesting their unban. Additionally, isn't this also the case with permanent bans that aren't related to this rule? Occasionally people complain about theirs in Meta and request unbans.
Update: Typo here and there.

[Lesbian Cow]

Proposed, discussed, and answered before. It is not happening, at least not yet. Let's not start this discussion (again) here.

Please point me to where this was discussed and answered, I honestly want to know, as I do not venture outside of Collectibles often.

[Lauda]

Proposed, discussed, and answered before. It is not happening, at least not yet. Let's not start this discussion (again) here.

Please point me to where this was discussed and answered, I honestly want to know, as I do not venture outside of Collectibles often.

What are everyone's ideas for improving post quality?

I have mostly ruled out:

 - Removing signatures or sig ads globally.
 - Requiring payment to wear sig ads.
 - Banning account sales.

This is his thread. There were many threads some spanning tens of pages over the course of the past few years. If you are really interested in those discussions, then you should try digging them up yourself (it would take me too much time). Tl;dr of all discussions: Plenty of potential *attacks* on the problem, with all of them having at least some con(s) to it. The last option would be to go nuclear.
I realize that this is off-topic to the subject of the thread, but it is a closing statement to a part of a relevant post (by Lesbian Cow). However, it would be good to keep it in here and not continue the off-topic discussion. I won't comment on this anymore (here) and neither should you @LC.

[Lesbian Cow]

Proposed, discussed, and answered before. It is not happening, at least not yet. Let's not start this discussion (again) here.

Please point me to where this was discussed and answered, I honestly want to know, as I do not venture outside of Collectibles often.

What are everyone's ideas for improving post quality?

I have mostly ruled out:

 - Removing signatures or sig ads globally.
 - Requiring payment to wear sig ads.
 - Banning account sales.

This is his thread. There were many threads some spanning tens of pages over the course of the past few years. If you are really interested in those discussions, then you should try digging them up yourself (it would take me too much time). Tl;dr of all discussions: Plenty of potential *attacks* on the problem, with all of them having at least some con(s) to it. The last option would be to go nuclear.
I realize that this is off-topic to the subject of the thread, but it is a closing statement to a part of a relevant post (by Lesbian Cow). However, it would be good to keep it in here and not continue the off-topic discussion. I won't comment on this anymore (here) and neither should you @LC.

Thanks, and I will have a look.

I do not believe it to be off topic actually as paid signature campaigns are at the root of what happened in this situation.  It appears as though ChiBitCty spammed plagiarized materials on a few occasions to bump his post count for a paid signature campaign.  If paid signature campaigns did not exist, motivation to spam posts would disappear.

[ChiBitCTy2]

I knew that I would receive crap for my last post but it was honest.  I f*#$d up during a difficult time, period. I cheated, I was wrong, it's 100% stupid and I understand what those consequences are now.  It was over a very short period of time where I wasn't by a computer and I made a major lapse in judgment and took the lazy way out.  It was mindless, a mistake..but I was wrong.  I'm guilty and I've never denied this.  

Theymos, you mention that you'd be willing to give me another chance if you thought I'd be a positive contributing member here. Since this thing was brought up several months ago, there has been zero plagiarism since.  There's a reason many have come to my defense here and it's because they know I'm not just another shit poster.  How many people here spend time to go after scam ICO's, to break down white papers and help others.  I can't tell you how many hours I spent warning others of Bitconnect on and off this forum.  I've posted numerous threads warning others of scams such as allthingsdecentral.com, Pecun ICO, Infinitum ICO/Company etc.  I have spent countless hours fighting FUD, learning all about the Lighting Network and using a fantastic write up a friend wrote as a basis to show others why the L.N. makes sense for bitcoin's future (if you asked this member I'm pretty sure he'd tell you I bug him more than I should.. looking to learn).  I have had to correct countless Hero and Legendary members over and over for pure nonsense such as how and why bitcoin and ethereum aren't competitors.  As a licensed financial advisor, who got in the industry to help others because I was tired of seeing others being screwed over...yes Theymos I more than know I'd add value going further and quite frankly I know this forum is better off having people like me trying to fight for those with less experience.  It took me a long time to head back outside of collectibles after I first joined here.  I posted about Bitconnect early on and the responses I got were awful.  It can be very hard to get reliable info on the forum at time and I've done nothing but try and combat that.  Again signature campaign or not, I've been here positively contributing much more so than most.  

Personally I don't understand how the guy whom tried extorting me for money a few weeks ago gets to stick around.  How to do those people get to stick around whom have clearly ran/run Ponzi schemes?!  Users whom talk about using bitcoin as a means for illegal animal fighting and or for the drug trade, they don't get banned?

For those of you who want to see me banned, I'm sorry but if you open your history books Nazi Germany wasn't a good thing.  Theymos, I fully understand where they're coming from..at least Theymos is open to the idea if he believes this person would be a positive contributor going forward.

Sometime people DO deserve a second chance.  Sometimes those second chances become a very positive thing.  For all the people whom have stood up for me I'm very thankful.  I have disappointed you all, I've disappointed this forum and I've wasted enough of everyone's time.  But to think I'd ever break a rule again, after everyone came here in my defense...is insane 

[MadZ]

-snip-

Look, no one is saying your overall contribution to the forum isn't a positive one. I am in agreement with this opinion, but the fact remains that you willingly plagiarized. There is a very good chance you will be unbanned down the line, but not with your current attitude. Go re-read your "apology" post again. Here is one of my favorite lines:

I did not purposely plagiarize.  Those sig campaigns require you to have a certain amount of words in your posts.  If I quote that person, I get more words..why would I want to purposely leave that out and have less words for the post?  I wouldn't as they ask for A LOT of words.

Did someone put a gun to your head and force you to plagiarize? Why would anyone believe you are contrite when you won't even accept responsibility for your own actions? The rest of the post follows along the same lines, you listing reasons why you should be allowed back/forgiven rather than actually owning up to what you did. No good apology ever won people over by simply trivializing one's actions. You save all those reasons for the post you make a month from now asking to be unbanned, a post I guarantee the administration (not just your friends) would be more receptive towards.

This post is more of the same, you listing reasons why you're such a good member and deserve to have an exception. The biggest part of proving that you deserve a second chance is accepting your punishment and actually taking some time off the forums. Come back and plead your case when you really do understand what you've done wrong. In my opinion, any arguments you make now will only hurt your chances in the long run.

[Panthers52]

 
Personally I don't understand how the guy whom tried extorting me for money a few weeks ago gets to stick around.  

You should complain to Lauda about this.

Kind Regards
Panthers52

[Quickseller]

Plagiarizing posts when participating in a signature campaign is nothing short of scamming the company paying you to wear their signature. Period, end of discussion, there is no other way to look at this.

Disregarding the fact that plagiarism in itself is wrong, as a general rule, plagiarizing content via google (or other websites) in the middle of a thread will generally not result in you adding to the conversation in any meaningful way, so you are essentially trashing the thread you are posting in for your own personal benefit. Further, if someone does respond to what you said plagiarized, you will likely be unable to engage in any meaningful conversation, assuming you bother to later look at the thread in question.

Another concern about plagiarizing around here is that it would be fairly trivial for someone to automate the posting of random garbage from google search results into threads. So this will not save you a few minutes to make a post, it will save you hours (or more) to make many posts. This along with the above, is a major problem. I suspect a fairly decent number of copy/paste spammers are using some kind of automation tool to do so.


Anytime someone is permabanned, they will be removed from the community, so an evaluation will need to be made to decide if this is a net benefit or not. In most cases, this is easy because the person in question provides essentially zero positive, and a decent amount of negative.

I would not personally give a lot of positive credit to someone who has done a few trades for profit among a small group of friends. This is not exactly something that demonstrates large amounts of integrity, nor does it have an especially large impact on the community economy.

I think a better measure of someone's integrity is how they act when (they think that) no one is looking, or when no one can see what they are doing. If you have someone's private keys, what happens to the money tells more about someone verses if someone repays a loan 10 times larger, or completes a trade valued 10 times larger. In this case, ChiBitCTy thought no one would see his plagiarism, and did it regardless of the harm it would cause, and regardless of the fact this is wrong.

If you are arguing for ChiBitCTy to be unbanned, your argument should start and end with "ChiBitCTy is my friend and would like for him to be allowed to stay", especially if you are among those that try to "clean the forum". To make any other argument is nothing other than dishonest and nepotism. Maybe these people have some motive other than "cleaning the forum" in their actions. This may or may not be a sufficient argument to allow ChiBitCTy to get unbanned, probably not considering the severity of the damage he has done, but maybe for something not quite as bad.

[Foxpup]

For those of you who want to see me banned, I'm sorry but if you open your history books Nazi Germany wasn't a good thing.

Merely out of intellectual curiosity, would you care to explain how being banned for blatantly breaking the rules of the forums (not to mention international copyright law) is even remotely comparable to the oppressive conditions of Nazi Germany?

[Quickseller]

I am not tagging people for spamming,

I searched your sent trust and found 89 instances of the word "SMAS" in your sent trust, and 437 instances of the word "spam" in your sent trust (some of these may be overlapping). I think it is safe to say your statement that you are not tagging people for spamming is a lie.

We can't say copy and pastes = ban, unless a mod decides otherwise based on no defined criteria.

theymos gave his general criteria above. He said he will want you to stay if you are a net positive to the forum. Granted this is very vague.

theymos also gave insight into his thought process for not allowing the OP to have his ban lifted. His actions were generally in line with other spammers whose mindset is to make as much as possible in the short term without regard to the damage his actions will have on others within the community.

Having a rule in place is no substitute for using good judgment.

I guess I would say to determine how severe the copy/paste spam is. You can ask questions such as, how many instances of this kind of spam are there (can you find more or less than two instances fairly quickly)? Were measures taken to cover this activity up (such as adding random words throughout the post)? Was this person getting paid to make these spam posts? How good is this person's post quality when they are not copy/paste spamming? Could it be reasonable to say this person is somewhat helpful to others (that you are aware of)? The answers to these questions should help determine just how harmful their actions are, and if a permmaban is appropriate.

[philipma1957]

I don’t know this person and I don’t think he is innocent.

But copy and paste with a quote is legal.

Correct ?

[Quickseller]

But copy and paste with a quote is legal.

Correct ?

Yes, that is correct. However you generally cannot make posts with nothing other than a quote, especially when the quote in question does not anything meaningful to the conversation.

[shahzadafzal]

Amazing read looks like a family discussing an internal dispute... whatever the outcome is I guess this should be a lesson to ChiBitCTy and all of us, plagiarism is crime. It was clear copy/paste case he got caught. Only possible action from him should have been  --an apology-- this should have been your second post after your ban question.

Hope you will get a second chance.

ChiBitCTy was active today so looks like ban has been lifted?  Update please if there is a good news

[TMAN]

But copy and paste with a quote is legal.

Correct ?

Yes, that is correct. However you generally cannot make posts with nothing other than a quote, especially when the quote in question does not anything meaningful to the conversation.

OP didn't cite a source and that is an issue, I believe he changed the posts after realising he had broken a rule.

On another note it's great to have a controversial discussion without mud slinging.

[botany]

My stance has always been the same. Plagiarism should result in a permanent ban.

I wonder what the incentive behind that is.

Yeah, right. Attribute motives when you can think of nothing to say. Grow up, Lauda.

Look at the number of people who have been tagged by DT members for so called spamming (whilest the moderators do not think that these accounts deserve even a temporary ban). Yet the very same people are here defending plagiarism, which has resulted in a permanent ban. I find it amusing that you are calling me a hypocrite. 

I am not tagging people for spamming, and I believe that nobody else is doing that right now either. You've proven yourself to be a biased hypocrite. Since you clearly have nothing useful to say, move along.

Congratulations on having a remarkably short memory. 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1678004.msg16852208#msg16852208

OP didn't cite a source and that is an issue, I believe he changed the posts after realising he had broken a rule.
On another note it's great to have a controversial discussion without mud slinging.

That is correct. The posts were edited later, but would still be visible to the admins, I believe. In the example quoted by Theymos, the plagiarism is still evident as only a few words were changed.
You are right about the mud slinging, except maybe Lauda's unprovoked attack. 
On a serious note, people may hesitate to give strong opinions against the OP when there are DT members speaking up in favour of him.

[Lauda]

I am not tagging people for spamming,

I searched your sent trust and found 89 instances of the word "SMAS" in your sent trust, and 437 instances of the word "spam" in your sent trust (some of these may be overlapping). I think it is safe to say your statement that you are not tagging people for spamming is a lie.

About 0% of those are tags that were sent as a direct result of someone spamming. You're really desperate.

Congratulations on having a remarkably short memory.  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1678004.msg16852208#msg16852208

Read before you respond (shitposting et. al.).

I am not tagging people for spamming, and I believe that nobody else is doing that right now either.

On a serious note, people may hesitate to give strong opinions against the OP when there are DT members speaking up in favour of him.

Unless I missed someone, it's literally just one.

ChiBitCTy was active today so looks like ban has been lifted?  Update please if there is a good news

Can't banned people log in, but just not do anything?

[motienvolam]

Theymos and more of the forum are very strict. They will ban users who seriously violate the forum rules. Ad'nd after get banned (permanently), I don't see any chance to unban.
Let's start from new account and avoid such stupid mistake in the future.
I understand that this is not a comfortable feeling, but that guy should accept the fact.