Why do you all want to take away money from the government? Who will then build

[MrHempstock]

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson, To William S. Smith Paris, Nov. 13, 1787

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[Hawker]

I never said the bank was bankrupt.  I said that the laws for setting up a bank are simple.  If you upset the government, you get closed down.  That bank upset the government and it got closed down.

If you disagree with those rules, then for crying out loud what are you doing investing in bank bonds?

You still don't understand the point. Those rules are fucked up. Those rules limit everyone's freedom and therefore limit the prosperity in the entire world. You should be able to invest in everything you want but it's the government that fucks up.

Let met repeat this one final time: Each and every rule made up by a government needs to go. Governments cannot do anything right. Ever.

Again take a step back and think about what you are saying.

Banks are government creations.  No bank can exist without a government backing it.  If governments cannot do anything right, ever, then you have no business investing in a bank.  

[Hawker]

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson, To William S. Smith Paris, Nov. 13, 1787

Seriously, you quote a raping slave owner on the subject of freedom?  A man who sold his own children and broke up their families?  That's your idea of logic?

[MrHempstock]

People celebrate Columbus Day every year, and he was a child sex slave trader and made natives wear their own hands around their necks for not meeting his gold quota, so yes. I'm quoting Jefferson because of the pivotal role he played in the setting up of my country and it's government. And also the fact that it fits the current conversation.
Who do you quote? Jesus? Please do.

[Hawker]

People celebrate Columbus Day every year, and he was a child sex slave trader and made natives wear their own hands around their necks for not meeting his gold quota, so yes. I'm quoting Jefferson because of the pivotal role he played in the setting up of my country and it's government. And also the fact that it fits the current conversation.
Who do you quote? Jesus? Please do.

If you want to quote Jefferson, say something that he said that is intelligent and relevent.  Wittering on about using blood to water trees is plain unscientific.

[dank]

Wittering on about using blood to water trees is plain unscientific.

Is that really what you got out of that quote?

[Hawker]

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson, To William S. Smith Paris, Nov. 13, 1787

Seriously, you quote a raping slave owner on the subject of freedom?  A man who sold his own children and broke up their families?  That's your idea of logic?

Ad hominem.

Since the posting is only a quote with an argument to authority, ad hominem arguments are valid.

[MrHempstock]

People who aren't looking for something to argue about see that the point of quoting said quote is simply to point out that one of the people responsible for our country's government didn't give it more than 20 years before that same government (that he helped set up) would have to be put in check by its own people.

Or do you read racism, bigotry and masochism? Character studies and the merits of an individual are where ad hominem arguments don't look stupid.

[Hawker]

People who aren't looking for something to argue about see that the point of quoting said quote is simply to point out that one of the people responsible for our country's government didn't give it more than 20 years before that same government (that he helped set up) would have to be put in check by its own people.

Or do you read racism, bigotry and masochism? Character studies and the merits of an individual are where ad hominem arguments don't look stupid.

Did you read it yourself?  Unless you can show that Jefferson led a rebellion by 1807, then he didn't believe it himself.  So why are you quoting it to someone who doesnt live in your particular swamp and who regards Jefferson in much the same way he regards any other racist thug?

[MrHempstock]

Lol, so now one has to accomplish something to believe it.

I'll keep that in mind when attempting to direct information your way in the future.  

[Hawker]

Lol, so now one has to accomplish something to believe it.

I'll keep that in mind when attempting to direct information your way in the future. 

Yes.  If you want to quote someone who believed in liberty, there are 1000 better examples than Jefferson. 

Here's one from my country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Emmet

[MrHempstock]

Lol, so now one has to accomplish something to believe it.

I'll keep that in mind when attempting to direct information your way in the future. 

Yes. 

No.

It was unveiled sarcasm.
And if it were a contest for the best Champion of Liberty, then, yes. There are much better examples. Not many of which helped write my country's constitution, but we seem to be all over the place with this convo so it's really moot.

[Hawker]

Lol, so now one has to accomplish something to believe it.

I'll keep that in mind when attempting to direct information your way in the future. 

Yes. 

No.

It was unveiled sarcasm.
And if it were a contest for the best Champion of Liberty, then, yes. There are much better examples. Not many of which helped write my country's constitution, but we seem to be all over the place with this convo so it's really moot.

Have you read the subject of the thread?  Its not the US constitution - its how to fund roads without taxes.

On a personal note, Jefferson and Ghandi are among my pet hates as "good guys" of history who really were tossers even to those who were alive at the same time as them.  I'm sorry if my reaction to your quote was over the top.  Of course I know that Jefferson had great ideas and that its infantile to judge him by today's morals. 

[MrHempstock]

No worries, I'm the exact same way with Thomas Edison. That dirty rat.
And also JP Morgan (the man) and Ronald Regan.

I hope to see an overhaul of my gov during my lifetime. It saddens me deeply to know, based on empirical historical data, that a true overhaul only comes at the cost of bloodshed.


The topic was why do we want to take $ away from the gov, then, secondly, who would then build our roads. Well, here in the USA, it would be the same private contractors that build them now. Tolls would be a lot higher, but without 80% of every dollar I make going directly and indirectly to taxes, if I wasn't losing that the higher toll (for every public service I utilized) would be much easier to manage.


I see your point, and I agree that as a person TJ was in most human aspects a fine upstanding example of utter douchebaggery.

[Hawker]

No worries, I'm the exact same way with Thomas Edison. That dirty rat.
...snip...

Yes - he totally got alternating current from Westinghouse!!  Adding Edison to my shit list

[MrHempstock]

This will be my last OT post, but if you dig the Edison hate and haven't already read the Oatmeal's awesome take on Tesla, here is a link:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

Learned more about the man in 15 minutes from TheOatmeal than in 16 years of school.

[Hawker]

This will be my last OT post, but if you dig the Edison hate and haven't already read the Oatmeal's awesome take on Tesla, here is a link:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

Learned more about the man in 15 minutes from TheOatmeal than in 16 years of school.

/bow

[dank]

I hope to see an overhaul of my gov during my lifetime. It saddens me deeply to know, based on empirical historical data, that a true overhaul only comes at the cost of bloodshed.

This is not true.  All it takes is unity.  For everyone to give up money, together.  A simple choice, no blood.

[wachtwoord]

I hope to see an overhaul of my gov during my lifetime. It saddens me deeply to know, based on empirical historical data, that a true overhaul only comes at the cost of bloodshed.

Bitcoin might be a non-violent way because it will slowly erode the powerbase of governments avoiding a direct confrontation. One can only hope.

[Mike Christ]

This will be my last OT post, but if you dig the Edison hate and haven't already read the Oatmeal's awesome take on Tesla, here is a link:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

Learned more about the man in 15 minutes from TheOatmeal than in 16 years of school.

Thanks for sharing this; very informative.