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Author Topic: Why bitcoiners are upset about ripple?  (Read 3969 times)
Mitzplik
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November 23, 2013, 12:48:23 PM
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Hi, Im relatively new in cryptocurrencies matter, Ive been studying mainly Bitcoin and Ripple. Im not attached to none of them, for the moment I am just sniffing around.

Since I started to read articles and forums about them I saw two different systems, nailing different aspects of digital value exchanging.

I realized that bitcoin is designed to be digital money, if there was a digital human being, this would be like gold to him. It has many characteristics of money but its virtual, it has no physical existence, and there is a protocol to send/receive it. Its may be a new asset or a mean to exchange real assets, a convertible cryptocurrency. Because it has no real existence, its durability is uncertain in the real world, making its "money" side fragile. Its convertible currency's side remains very strong because of its code's strength and safety.

Today what I see is Bitcoin being used as a convertible currency, one success case is BitPay, which does the conversion for merchants to receive the currency they want. Bitcoin believers and speculators may accept bitcoin directly, but they are not the majority.

Ripple on the other hand is an agnostic protocol for exchanging unique tokens, that can have any meaning. For example Bitstamp-USD or BTC is a meaning, GDW-Goodwill is a completely different meaning, etc. And its has a native convertible cryptocurrency that serves as a common language between the other tokens, but its not intended to be a store of value. The thing is that they are all already created and significantly held by their creators. So I think ripple main proposition is to serve as a protocol for many assets and profit from XRP valuation as long as it become more useful.

Both protocols work very fine but I see anger from bitcoiners to ripple, but don't see anger from ripplers to bitcoiners.

The argument that ripple is a "get rich scheme" is not valid because bitcoin made Satoshi a millionaire and he mined a lot of bitcoins almost alone. And many people use bitcoin protocol to get rich (speculating or scamming).

Now people can "mine" XRPs trough WCG, donating computing power to a charity purpose, that sound cool.

Are the protocols competitors?

Do bitcoiners think ripple is a threat? Why?

I thought it could be that bitcoin entrepreneurs are very attached to bitcoin valuation, maybe some of them?
Or ripple is a threat to the idealistic side of bitcoin, a crypto anarchy?

Or what?

Thanks

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December 27, 2013, 09:10:47 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment_protocol)#Criticism
"According to critics it is not clear that it solves the actual need for an improved interbank network or a legal system of money."

My opinion is that Ripple and Mastercoin are similar in function and they both build off Bitcoin, whereas Nxt is similar in function but could replace Bitcoin.
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December 27, 2013, 09:17:53 AM
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http://ripplescam.org/

Found this site interesting

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December 27, 2013, 09:32:00 AM
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http://ripplescam.org/

Found this site interesting
That actually looks like good info despite being biased.

Why Ripple™ is against everything Bitcoin - Link to the thread they screenshotted. I'm gonna read through it since I expect a lot of opposing viewpoints to be in it.
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December 28, 2013, 11:34:39 AM
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Do bitcoiners think ripple is a threat? Why?

Yes, they are so afraid they can't even put out a coherent sentence and parrot what they read on the net.
It's because XRP could oust BTC from the market because XRP is truly deflationary with ripples architecture able to provide a better payment system with more functionality than Bitcoin can.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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December 28, 2013, 11:45:20 AM
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I think Ripple rubs Bitcoin people the wrong way because it's a centralized digital currency.

Bitcoin and other Altcoins are de-centralized - they are controlled by no single person or business entity but by the network and its  users as a whole.

Ripple is a centralized currency; controlled, distributed and traded by its founders. 

Think of it like any other coin except it's 100% premined, there can only be one node (the dev's computer) and you can't "mine" the coins yourself - the dev rewards them to you directly when you do work for him.  Not exactly in-line with the ideas of Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies.
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December 28, 2013, 11:52:55 AM
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They're all butthurt.
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December 28, 2013, 11:55:30 AM
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I think Ripple rubs Bitcoin people the wrong way because it's a centralized digital currency.

Bitcoin and other Altcoins are de-centralized - they are controlled by no single person or business entity but by the network and its  users as a whole.

Ripple is a centralized currency; controlled, distributed and traded by its founders. 

Think of it like any other coin except it's 100% premined, there can only be one node (the dev's computer) and you can't "mine" the coins yourself - the dev rewards them to you directly when you do work for him.  Not exactly in-line with the ideas of Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies.

Go run your own node. Then come back and tell us if you think it is still centralized.

(Now awaiting the uneducated noob who thinks it is closed source - come on who will it be!?)
Mitzplik
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December 28, 2013, 01:16:25 PM
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Its not true that XRP is centralized, you would better say its highly concentrated right now. But i can own it as hard money and trade it too. I can run my own server if i want. As a XRP sitted company, ripple labs is the most interested in its success as a currency, and they MUST distribute the currency for it to be fungible.

What ripplescam states about it being distributed is the only partially valid point IMO, but i say partially because its a matter of time until ripple labs loses control of it.
Once they accept trusted validators to vote for new other validators, the trend is that their power will be completelly diluted, and the network will have huge diversity. Like i read in another topic, you must start from something.
Early bitcoin hashing power were very centralized because there was a lack of miners, now its very spread (although you could say that mining pools are concentrating it again...)
Ripplescam also states its closed source, what is not true since september 2013.
About the IOUs, they are not different from a bitcoin-exchang or bank balance, you deposit your coins into an exchange and receive IOUs in your account, and trade these IOUs with other users of the same exchange. If you want to withdraw them, you take your coins to their native protocol wallet. Ripple does the same, and the bitcoins can be withdrawn from within the client.
Ripplescam says you can create false IOUs, thats true, but you can choose which IOU issuers to trust. Its the same thing about choosing between bitstamp and mtgox and other exchanges or online wallets. They will issue you their IOUs. Nobody would buy IOUs from a known scammer or an unknown individual.
So, exchanges IOUs are soft money just like ripple IOUs, its a matter of who you trust on.
Talking about hard money, in ripple its XRP, but your bitstamp BTC IOUs can be withdrawn to your bitcoin wallet.
I see ripple as a huge connection tool between IOU issuers, including digital currencies exchanges, but not excluding any kind of asset, its more a payment protocol.
BootstrapCoinDev
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November 14, 2014, 09:55:10 PM
 #10

 There is no XRP vs Bitcoin because you're comparing something designed to be a currency to something not designed to be a currency. Granted, you could USE it as a currency, but I could also go grab the apples from my fridge and use them as currency as well.
Please stop all the "ZOMG ripple is pre-mined rabble rabble rabble!" because it wasn't "mined." That's like saying "The post office made the stamps before I had a chance to buy them."

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November 14, 2014, 10:10:35 PM
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Now people can "mine" XRPs trough WCG, donating computing power to a charity purpose, that sound cool.



Not anymore, the WCG giveaway is being phased out.

https://xrptalk.org/topic/2000-wcg-giveaway-is-being-phased-out/
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November 15, 2014, 05:34:05 AM
 #12

Hi, Im relatively new in cryptocurrencies matter, Ive been studying mainly Bitcoin and Ripple. Im not attached to none of them, for the moment I am just sniffing around.

Since I started to read articles and forums about them I saw two different systems, nailing different aspects of digital value exchanging.

(1) I realized that bitcoin is designed to be digital money, if there was a digital human being, this would be like gold to him. It has many characteristics of money but its virtual, it has no physical existence, and there is a protocol to send/receive it. Its may be a new asset or a mean to exchange real assets, a convertible cryptocurrency. Because it has no real existence, its durability is uncertain in the real world, making its "money" side fragile. Its convertible currency's side remains very strong because of its code's strength and safety.

Today what I see is Bitcoin being used as a convertible currency, one success case is BitPay, which does the conversion for merchants to receive the currency they want. Bitcoin believers and speculators may accept bitcoin directly, but they are not the majority.

Ripple on the other hand is an agnostic protocol for exchanging unique tokens, that can have any meaning. For example Bitstamp-USD or BTC is a meaning, GDW-Goodwill is a completely different meaning, etc. And its has a native convertible cryptocurrency that serves as a common language between the other tokens, but its not intended to be a store of value. The thing is that they are all already created and significantly held by their creators. So I think ripple main proposition is to serve as a protocol for many assets and profit from XRP valuation as long as it become more useful.

Both protocols work very fine but (2) I see anger from bitcoiners to ripple, but don't see anger from ripplers to bitcoiners.

The argument that ripple is a "get rich scheme" is not valid because bitcoin made Satoshi a millionaire and he mined a lot of bitcoins almost alone. And many people use bitcoin protocol to get rich (speculating or scamming).

Now people can "mine" XRPs trough WCG, donating computing power to a charity purpose, that sound cool.

(3) Are the protocols competitors?

(4) Do bitcoiners think ripple is a threat? Why?

I thought it could be that bitcoin entrepreneurs are very attached to bitcoin valuation, maybe some of them?
(5) Or ripple is a threat to the idealistic side of bitcoin, a crypto anarchy?

Or what?

Thanks



(1) Satoshi designed Bitcoin as an alternative (or replacement, depending on who you ask) to the existing fiat currency model. The term "digital money" which you assigned to Bitcoin, actually describes Ripple better.

(2) Could you demonstrate this? I am quite curious. Aside from the occasional random forum posts, I've never seen this anger.

(3) Bitcoin is not a protocol in the Ripple sense of the word. It represents a generational leap in technological and socioeconomic evolution that began when Gork bartered his second wife for Ooga's three deer skins.

(4) During our last secret meeting, Bitcoiners of the world has agreed to not see Ripple as a threat. In fact, for many of us, we don't see Ripple at all.

(5) It's never a good idea to seek enlightenment from a loud but tiny minority.
Spoetnik
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November 15, 2014, 07:48:30 AM
 #13

Simple.. it was premined 100%

All coins that are premined 100% are scammy period. /case closed

edit:
They also started a massive giveaway here tricking everyone on the forum to sign up at a site for coins but never gave any out.
i fell for it too Sad

see this..
Do you think coins with (full) IPO/premines will succeed and be popular/mainstream?

FUD first & ask questions later™
belmonty
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November 15, 2014, 11:05:00 AM
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http://www.coindesk.com/fidor-becomes-first-bank-to-use-ripple-payment-protocol/

After hyping this, came this ...

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ripple-co-founder-jed-mccaleb-announces-sell/

Now ask yourself if it is really a nice idea to invest in ripple if they are so honest to their investor.

Ripple did a deal with jed where he agreed to sign a legal agreement not to sell for years except a very small amount. The other founders are also signing similar deals.

Since then Ripple Labs has sealed new partnerships that will bring its Ripple protocol to two US banks.

http://www.coindesk.com/us-banks-announce-ripple-protocol-integration/
belmonty
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November 15, 2014, 11:22:18 AM
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They can literally take away your coins and you can't do anything about that.


No they cannot take your XRP coins but I think a ripple asset issuer can put some sort of block on an asset you hold. Bitstamp USD assets seem to be very popular, but I doubt Bitstamp would block anyone's Bitstamp USDs without very good reasons because of the negative publicity. The ripple protocol prevents anyone taking your ripple XRP coins just like the bitcoin protocol prevents anyone taking your bitcoins.
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November 16, 2014, 05:25:32 PM
 #16

If the Ripple devs want this specific address of coins gone they can do it.
Why did they let Jed McCaleb destroy millions of USD in valuation then and not just remove his coins?

Sorry, but it seems to me you don't really understand the technology behind Ripple...

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November 16, 2014, 05:33:38 PM
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I am a "Bitcoiner", I don't hate Ripple and no, they can NOT implement a "kill switch".

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lemfuture
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November 16, 2014, 05:37:24 PM
 #18

i am a bitcoiner but what is ripple?

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November 16, 2014, 06:02:50 PM
 #19

Hi, Im relatively new in cryptocurrencies matter, Ive been studying mainly Bitcoin and Ripple. Im not attached to none of them, for the moment I am just sniffing around.

Since I started to read articles and forums about them I saw two different systems, nailing different aspects of digital value exchanging.

(1) I realized that bitcoin is designed to be digital money, if there was a digital human being, this would be like gold to him. It has many characteristics of money but its virtual, it has no physical existence, and there is a protocol to send/receive it. Its may be a new asset or a mean to exchange real assets, a convertible cryptocurrency. Because it has no real existence, its durability is uncertain in the real world, making its "money" side fragile. Its convertible currency's side remains very strong because of its code's strength and safety.

Today what I see is Bitcoin being used as a convertible currency, one success case is BitPay, which does the conversion for merchants to receive the currency they want. Bitcoin believers and speculators may accept bitcoin directly, but they are not the majority.

Ripple on the other hand is an agnostic protocol for exchanging unique tokens, that can have any meaning. For example Bitstamp-USD or BTC is a meaning, GDW-Goodwill is a completely different meaning, etc. And its has a native convertible cryptocurrency that serves as a common language between the other tokens, but its not intended to be a store of value. The thing is that they are all already created and significantly held by their creators. So I think ripple main proposition is to serve as a protocol for many assets and profit from XRP valuation as long as it become more useful.

Both protocols work very fine but (2) I see anger from bitcoiners to ripple, but don't see anger from ripplers to bitcoiners.

The argument that ripple is a "get rich scheme" is not valid because bitcoin made Satoshi a millionaire and he mined a lot of bitcoins almost alone. And many people use bitcoin protocol to get rich (speculating or scamming).

Now people can "mine" XRPs trough WCG, donating computing power to a charity purpose, that sound cool.

(3) Are the protocols competitors?

(4) Do bitcoiners think ripple is a threat? Why?

I thought it could be that bitcoin entrepreneurs are very attached to bitcoin valuation, maybe some of them?
(5) Or ripple is a threat to the idealistic side of bitcoin, a crypto anarchy?

Or what?

Thanks



(1) Satoshi designed Bitcoin as an alternative (or replacement, depending on who you ask) to the existing fiat currency model. The term "digital money" which you assigned to Bitcoin, actually describes Ripple better.

(2) Could you demonstrate this? I am quite curious. Aside from the occasional random forum posts, I've never seen this anger.

(3) Bitcoin is not a protocol in the Ripple sense of the word. It represents a generational leap in technological and socioeconomic evolution that began when Gork bartered his second wife for Ooga's three deer skins.

(4) During our last secret meeting, Bitcoiners of the world has agreed to not see Ripple as a threat. In fact, for many of us, we don't see Ripple at all.

(5) It's never a good idea to seek enlightenment from a loud but tiny minority.


I'm a Bitcoiner, but I can see maybe my mom might like Ripple  Grin

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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November 16, 2014, 06:45:05 PM
 #20

@Stealthcoin

FACT !

And these dumb ass bag holders are scared your bashing their shit scam investment.. fuck em and fuck Ripple too !

Invest in this crap all you want.. i would literally burn my money with a lighter before i touched this colossal faggotry !

hey i took a shit on the floor wanna take turns handing over all your bitcoin ? i promise i won't spend my huge free shit i got until a year has passed  Roll Eyes

kinda funny Cryptsy added this garbage too and how often do you see then talk in the Altcoin section ?
me thinks they are busy with alternate accounts or building a "legendary" rep in other forum sections LOL

RIPPLE ? ROFL
fuck off it's not funny anymore.. yeah a year ago we all laughed at it but the joke isn't funny anymore.

FUD first & ask questions later™
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