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Author Topic: Proof that BITCOIN is more scarce than GOLD & DIAMONDS  (Read 7133 times)
zeroday (OP)
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November 23, 2013, 08:03:43 PM
 #1

Just watched Peter Schiff speaking about bitcoin and gold and found how deep is he in his delusion.

The main argument against gold and other precious metals is that they can be synthesized.
 
As soon as humanity discover cheap way to produce enormous amounts of energy (i.e. fusion), gold/platinum/palladium will be produced from cheap sources like mercury by a process called "transmutation".

I guess in 20-30 years gold will completely lost its value and become just another industrial metal.

The same has already happened with DIAMONDS which can be cheaply produced by chemical reaction. The only reason they are still expensive is repressive regulation by monopolies such as De Beers which prohibit free circulation of synthetic diamonds.


In opposite, the generation of bitcoins cannot be accelerated at all, and, to crack private key it won't be enough the whole energy generated by our Sun for all the time it exists.


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It is possible in particle accelerators or nuclear reactors, although the production cost is currently many times the market price of gold. Since there is only one stable gold isotope, 197Au, nuclear reactions must create this isotope in order to produce usable gold.

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Gold synthesis in an accelerator

Gold synthesis in a particle accelerator is possible in many ways. The Spallation Neutron Source has a liquid mercury target which will be transmuted into gold, platinum, and iridium, which are lower in atomic number than gold.[citation needed]


Gold synthesis in a nuclear reactor

Gold was synthesized from mercury by neutron bombardment in 1941, but the isotopes of gold produced were all radioactive.[12] In 1924, a Japanese physicist, Hantaro Nagaoka, accomplished the same feat.[13]

Gold can currently be manufactured in a nuclear reactor by irradiation either of platinum or mercury.

Only the mercury isotope 196Hg, which occurs with a frequency of 0.15% in natural mercury, can be converted to gold by slow neutron capture, and following electron capture, decay into gold's only stable isotope, 197Au. Other mercury isotopes are converted when irradiated with slow neutrons into one another, or formed mercury isotopes which beta decay into thallium.

Using fast neutrons, the mercury isotope 198Hg, which composes 9.97% of natural mercury, can be converted by splitting off a neutron and becoming 197Hg, which then disintegrates to stable gold. This reaction, however, possesses a smaller activation cross-section and is feasible only with un-moderated reactors.

It is also possible to eject several neutrons with very high energy into the other mercury isotopes in order to form 197Hg. However such high-energy neutrons can be produced only by particle accelerators.[clarification needed].

In 1980, Glenn Seaborg transmuted several thousand atoms of bismuth into gold at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory. His experimental technique, using nuclear physics, was able to remove protons and neutrons from the bismuth atoms. Seaborg's technique would have been far too expensive to enable the routine manufacture of gold, however

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_of_precious_metals#Gold_synthesis_in_an_accelerator



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Synthetic diamond (also known as laboratory-created diamond, laboratory-grown diamond, cultured diamond or cultivated diamond) is diamond produced in an artificial process, as opposed to natural diamonds, which are created by geological processes. Synthetic diamond is also widely known as HPHT diamond or CVD diamond after the two common production methods (referring to the high-pressure high-temperature and chemical vapor deposition crystal formation methods, respectively).

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Gem-quality diamonds grown in a lab can be chemically, physically and optically identical (and sometimes superior) to naturally occurring ones. The mined diamond industry has undertaken legal, marketing and distribution countermeasures to protect its market from the emerging presence of synthetic diamonds.

Souce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond

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November 23, 2013, 08:29:41 PM
 #2

Just watched Peter Schiff speaking about bitcoin and gold and found how deep is he in his delusion.

The main argument against gold and other precious metals is that they can be synthesized.
 
As soon as humanity discover cheap way to produce enormous amounts of energy (i.e. fusion), gold/platinum/palladium will be produced from cheap sources like mercury by a process called "transmutation".


Logical fallacy. You assume that this is possible (that energy will one day be exponentially cheaper). If we *know* its possible, then we'd have achieved it. Since we don't yet know for sure, this is a weak argument against gold.


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zeroday (OP)
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November 23, 2013, 08:43:38 PM
 #3

Fusion reactor is only matter of time.

And what about diamonds? Once it was most scarce stone in the world.
But now their synthetic versions are already superior to natural ones. Diamonds price is still high because of manipulation and prohibition.
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November 23, 2013, 08:54:46 PM
 #4

maybe in 100 years we can crack Bitcoin aswell , (quantum computers and what not ) ... so what

maybe at that age of time we dont need no money at all...

till then enjoy the ride  Grin
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November 23, 2013, 09:01:57 PM
 #5

Well, Bitcoin has a much higher chance to fail than gold, since it depends on brittle socialistic factors.
Already the Foundation is considered by some as threatening to the coin, and many other threats can arrive.

Think of algorithmic errors, propaganda wars, power battles, centralization, etc. etc.

Gold by comparison is backed by physics, for all we know.

Anyway, gold an Bitcoin aren't comparable directly. Gold has the upper hand in the physical world, while Bitcoin has it in the digital one.

BTW, diamonds aren't naturally scarce at all.
They're scarce because a single cartel controls the market.
And regardless, there're artificial diamonds which aren't distinguishable from natural ones. They cost about 1/3 the price.
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November 23, 2013, 09:04:58 PM
 #6

Bitcoin is already harder to counterfeit than gold:
Bitcoin cannot be filled with Tungsten

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November 23, 2013, 10:02:36 PM
 #7

i dont think that gold and silver will be replicated in our lifetime.

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November 23, 2013, 10:24:03 PM
 #8

Fusion reactor is only matter of time.

And what about diamonds? Once it was most scarce stone in the world.
But now their synthetic versions are already superior to natural ones. Diamonds price is still high because of manipulation and prohibition.

In a society that looks to the stars and who want to achieve prosperity and progress yes it is only a matter of time Fusion is harnessed (heck we could've had it by now). However current governments in the past 2 decades are taking us back to the stone ages (quiet successfully in many ways) by de-industrializing us and pushing up energy costs to unaffordable levels. Even free energy sources like solar is taxed to oblivion (they hate the idea of self-sustaining individuals).

For Humanity to progress into the future, we need cheap abundant renewable energy.

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November 23, 2013, 11:43:55 PM
 #9

Just watched Peter Schiff speaking about bitcoin and gold and found how deep is he in his delusion.

The main argument against gold and other precious metals is that they can be synthesized.
 
As soon as humanity discover cheap way to produce enormous amounts of energy (i.e. fusion), gold/platinum/palladium will be produced from cheap sources like mercury by a process called "transmutation".

I guess in 20-30 years gold will completely lost its value and become just another industrial metal.


Nope.  You may right about diamonds but not gold.  We are more then 20-30 years away from cheap enormous energy and once we get there the changes in society will be far greater then the price of gold.  And still gold made this way will be more expensive then mined. 

Making gold in an accelerator takes a million dollar machine and tons of energy to make MOLECULAR level amounts of gold.   You could get more gold by licking someones gold ring then from an accelerator.   Even with tons of energy the machine cost and speed is just too slow.  Free energy does not change the equation much. 

That being said.... I prefer Bitcoin. 

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November 23, 2013, 11:54:08 PM
 #10

I agree somewhat but not at all. I'm hugely not a fan of diamonds. They are the best example of market manipulation, and convincing people that they want sparkly glass that is no less common than any other shiny rock in the ground. However, I do believe you are incorrect about, "its just a matter of time until we have enough power etc". Its not only power intensive, but its unimaginably slow. Using a large hadron collider it takes something like 50 years to create 1/4th of an oz of gold? Its like setting up a huge CPU miner setup for Bitcoins. Even if you have free power, its still damn stupid.
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November 24, 2013, 03:27:04 AM
 #11

People who defend that gold or diamonds are hard-limited, do so with the mindset of the last 3000 years. We are going global, which means we must think in terms of outer space too.

There are currently for-profit companies actively looking to mine asteroids in the near future and bring gold and other metals back to the Earth.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/21/us-space-mining-asteroids-idUSBRE9AK0JF20131121

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November 24, 2013, 03:36:12 AM
 #12

All valid points. I'm a believer.
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November 24, 2013, 11:20:10 AM
 #13

These all are nothing but ifs and buts ... Future is as unpredictable...New technologies are developing every second. We are discussing bitcoin as a future of the whole world, but its not as easy as it seems, Bitcoin is very young compared to gold, Gold has been there for centuries much before diamonds. And you are saying about accelerator they are more complex then it seems.
About astroids, there might be more gold awailable but bringing it back would be more costly then mining it here, and as you know cost of manufacturing is more important then availability for a new discovery to be successful, for eg. Solar energy
..
Saying this i am not against any of gold , bitcoin or diamonds. I am investor and look for all the opportunity that i can grab...
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November 24, 2013, 05:10:03 PM
 #14

These all are nothing but ifs and buts ... Future is as unpredictable...New technologies are developing every second. We are discussing bitcoin as a future of the whole world, but its not as easy as it seems, Bitcoin is very young compared to gold, Gold has been there for centuries much before diamonds. And you are saying about accelerator they are more complex then it seems.
About astroids, there might be more gold awailable but bringing it back would be more costly then mining it here, and as you know cost of manufacturing is more important then availability for a new discovery to be successful, for eg. Solar energy
..
Saying this i am not against any of gold , bitcoin or diamonds. I am investor and look for all the opportunity that i can grab...

This is clearly a speculative thread, thanks for stating the obvious...
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November 24, 2013, 07:11:28 PM
 #15

Ah!! But not in the correct place, i must say..
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November 24, 2013, 07:14:30 PM
 #16

Fusion reactor is only matter of time.

And what about diamonds? Once it was most scarce stone in the world.
But now their synthetic versions are already superior to natural ones. Diamonds price is still high because of manipulation and prohibition.
Going into another Galaxy is only a matter of time.
Oh wait.

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
😼 Bitcoin Core (onion)
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November 26, 2013, 01:22:53 AM
 #17

Fusion reactor is only matter of time.

And what about diamonds? Once it was most scarce stone in the world.
But now their synthetic versions are already superior to natural ones. Diamonds price is still high because of manipulation and prohibition.
Going into another Galaxy is only a matter of time.
Oh wait.

This made me lol.
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November 26, 2013, 06:30:15 AM
 #18

bitcoin is not a physical object though.. so maybe bitcoin is more scarce than gold or diamonds, but it's fungible. a satoshi is significantly more common than gold or diamonds then, right?
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November 26, 2013, 06:56:22 AM
 #19

Bitcoin is cool and Bitcoin is practical in today's modern society, but Gold has been around for thousands of years and will be here thousands of years after computers and internet is gone. It's just not practical to carry a block of gold around in your pockets in this day and age.



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November 26, 2013, 07:39:39 AM
 #20

Gold by comparison is backed by physics, for all we know.
Bitcoin is backed by mathematics. As is physics Smiley

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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