CoinFount.com : tiny pay-ins, huge payouts

[PenAndPaper]

In this scenario, if the pot was actually already at .1 BTC, your pay-in of .09 BTC would win a payout of .17 BTC, and a profit of .08 BTC, since you get the overages back too. (NOTE: if you use this strategy, we recommend a maximum equal to the threshold of .11 BTC per pot as any higher value is statistically irrelevant.)

1.The payout will be 0.18 and the profit 0.09BTC since you said that the overages are returned.

2.If there is at least 1 bet in the pot a dominant strategy exists and that is for the player to bet 0.11 and the reward for that player will be between 0 and 0.09

So if a player only bets 0.11 (and others are not aware of that strategy and bet randomly) he will have an average return of 0.044 BTC per bet. Edit: 0.04 BTC per bet.

3.Besides all that since you know at any given moment how much money are in the pool, you can always be the one that will push the pot to the threshold.
All you have to do after the bets are over is to show the legit transactions plus the last winning transaction that you did. Noone can't verify if the player that did the last transactions was actually a player or you.

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[CoinFount]

In this scenario, if the pot was actually already at .1 BTC, your pay-in of .09 BTC would win a payout of .17 BTC, and a profit of .08 BTC, since you get the overages back too. (NOTE: if you use this strategy, we recommend a maximum equal to the threshold of .11 BTC per pot as any higher value is statistically irrelevant.)

1.The payout will be 0.18 and the profit 0.09BTC since you said that the overages are returned.

2.If there is at least 1 bet in the pot a dominant strategy exists and that is for the player to bet 0.11 and the reward for that player will be between 0 and 0.09

So if a player only bets 0.11 (and others are not aware of that strategy and bet randomly) he will have an average return of 0.044 BTC per bet. Edit: 0.04 BTC per bet.

3.Besides all that since you know at any given moment how much money are in the pool, you can always be the one that will push the pot to the threshold.
All you have to do after the bets are over is to show the legit transactions plus the last winning transaction that you did. Noone can't verify if the player that did the last transactions was actually a player or you.

Hi, thank you for your feedback. To answer your questions:

1. Yes, that's correct. I had originally written it as "if the pot was actually already at .09 BTC..." and when I updated that amount I forgot to update the subsequent values. They're updated now, thank you.

2. Yes, that's correct. Pay-in of .11 is the best strategy when possible because you are guaranteed to win the pot. If the pot was empty, there is a net loss of .01. If the pot was .01, it's a push (no gain or loss). If the pot was anything from .02 to .1, there is a net gain of .01-.09. As you say, there is an average profit of about 50%. That's certainly not a bad thing... However, if you can only afford to bet the minimum, you still have a chance to win, it's just a smaller chance than those who bet the maximum (obviously).

3. I've already addressed this a few times but: a) this is possible with almost any gambling site, for example the owner of a poker site could look at everyone's hand and manipulate the outcome, however there is an incentive NOT to do this because b) I want my visitors to win the pots so they will want to keep coming back. c) anyone has the ability to look up Coinbase users by their id, so you could see if I kept winning pots on the same account unless I had hundreds of different bank accounts to connect to hundreds of different Coinbase accounts, which is of course absurd. d) I want people to post proof of payment here after pots are won

[PenAndPaper]

However, if you can only afford to bet the minimum, you still have a chance to win, it's just a smaller chance than those who bet the maximum (obviously).

If you think it is obvious or normal that when you bet min you play a game with -ev while when you bet max you play a game with +ev then ok. Beats me.

Just think if poker was a game that as you bet higher you get more ev. Ridiculous.

[CoinFount]

However, if you can only afford to bet the minimum, you still have a chance to win, it's just a smaller chance than those who bet the maximum (obviously).

If you think it is obvious or normal that when you bet min you play a game with -ev while when you bet max you play a game with +ev then ok. Beats me.

Just think if poker was a game that as you bet higher you get more ev. Ridiculous.

Actually, in poker, someone who sits down to the table with $11 will be able to throw a lot more weight around than someone with just $1. So it's not ridiculous at all, it's actually a very good analogy in that regard.

[PenAndPaper]

However, if you can only afford to bet the minimum, you still have a chance to win, it's just a smaller chance than those who bet the maximum (obviously).

If you think it is obvious or normal that when you bet min you play a game with -ev while when you bet max you play a game with +ev then ok. Beats me.

Just think if poker was a game that as you bet higher you get more ev. Ridiculous.

Actually, in poker, someone who sits down to the table with $11 will be able to throw a lot more weight around than someone with just $1. So it's not ridiculous at all, it's actually a very good analogy in that regard.

Actually you haven't understand what i said.
On top of that what you said is plain wrong anyway, because if you play nl1, sitting with 1$ against someone with 11$ doesn't put any weight at you whatsoever.
Actually many players don't prefer sitting around with 1000bb because it increases variance.
I could go on talking about shortstack strategies etc but doesn't make any sence since you are struggling to understand even your own game and how flawed it is.

[CoinFount]

However, if you can only afford to bet the minimum, you still have a chance to win, it's just a smaller chance than those who bet the maximum (obviously).

If you think it is obvious or normal that when you bet min you play a game with -ev while when you bet max you play a game with +ev then ok. Beats me.

Just think if poker was a game that as you bet higher you get more ev. Ridiculous.

Actually, in poker, someone who sits down to the table with $11 will be able to throw a lot more weight around than someone with just $1. So it's not ridiculous at all, it's actually a very good analogy in that regard.

Actually you haven't understand what i said.
On top of that what you said is plain wrong anyway, because if you play nl1, sitting with 1$ against someone with 11$ doesn't put any weight at you whatsoever.
Actually many players don't prefer sitting around with 1000bb because it increases variance.
I could go on talking about shortstack strategies etc but doesn't make any sence since you are struggling to understand even your own game and how flawed it is.

Wrong.

In my game, the total value per .01 pay-in doesn't change. Someone who puts in .11 has 11x more chances to profit than someone who puts in .01.

In poker, the total value per $1 doesn't change. Someone with $11 has 11x more chances to profit than someone with $1.

Same principle.

[PenAndPaper]

In my game, the total value per .01 pay-in doesn't change. Someone who puts in .11 has 11x more chances to profit than someone who puts in .01.

As i said you can't even understand how your game works. It seems that you even lack knowledge of basic principles on probabilities. A good place to start is by finding out what expected value is (ev).

In poker, the total value per $1 doesn't change. Someone with $11 has 11x more chances to profit than someone with $1.

Ok now i'm sure that you don't even know what poker is.

Anyway gl with your game.

[CoinFount]

In my game, the total value per .01 pay-in doesn't change. Someone who puts in .11 has 11x more chances to profit than someone who puts in .01.

As i said you can't even understand how your game works. It seems that you even lack knowledge of basic principles on probabilities. A good place to start is by finding out what expected value is (ev).

In poker, the total value per $1 doesn't change. Someone with $11 has 11x more chances to profit than someone with $1.

Ok now i'm sure that you don't even know what poker is.

Anyway gl with your game.

Honestly it just seems like you're trolling... Of course in poker the probabilities are subject to the cards and luck. That's a given. All things being even in that regard (in other words, if all the players have even odds in that regard, which is implied), then the principle holds.

[Trevor]

Just wanted to post that I made a deposit to this, pretty much just to see what it was really and if it was legit. Received the 0.10 btc payout pretty much instantly so that's nice. Not that this is an endorsement or anything so don't shout at me if it goes wrong. Maybe I'll play again if I get bored, but no-one seemed to have the balls to try it out and it's an interesting concept. Could/should be built on though.

[CoinFount]

Just wanted to post that I made a deposit to this, pretty much just to see what it was really and if it was legit. Received the 0.10 btc payout pretty much instantly so that's nice. Not that this is an endorsement or anything so don't shout at me if it goes wrong. Maybe I'll play again if I get bored, but no-one seemed to have the balls to try it out and it's an interesting concept. Could/should be built on though.

Hey Trevor, thank you for playing and providing your proof of payment and positive experience! I'm looking forward to other players posting their positive experiences here as well

[moderate]

Just wanted to post that I made a deposit to this, pretty much just to see what it was really and if it was legit. Received the 0.10 btc payout pretty much instantly so that's nice. Not that this is an endorsement or anything so don't shout at me if it goes wrong. Maybe I'll play again if I get bored, but no-one seemed to have the balls to try it out and it's an interesting concept. Could/should be built on though.

Hey Trevor, thank you for playing and providing your proof of payment and positive experience! I'm looking forward to other players posting their positive experiences here as well

Why do you accept Coinbase only ? Please don't repeat what's written in the site, I'm not interested in hearing about the incompetence again. Also, did you really mean to write


Any incoming transactions from non-Coinbase accounts will be counted as pot donations and go into the next payout pot


? Because that is just another definition for stealing, as well a very easy way to cheat (like if you needed to cheat even more...) the game.

[CoinFount]

Just wanted to post that I made a deposit to this, pretty much just to see what it was really and if it was legit. Received the 0.10 btc payout pretty much instantly so that's nice. Not that this is an endorsement or anything so don't shout at me if it goes wrong. Maybe I'll play again if I get bored, but no-one seemed to have the balls to try it out and it's an interesting concept. Could/should be built on though.

Hey Trevor, thank you for playing and providing your proof of payment and positive experience! I'm looking forward to other players posting their positive experiences here as well

Why do you accept Coinbase only ? Please don't repeat what's written in the site, I'm not interested in hearing about the incompetence again. Also, did you really mean to write


Any incoming transactions from non-Coinbase accounts will be counted as pot donations and go into the next payout pot


? Because that is just another definition for stealing, as well a very easy way to cheat (like if you needed to cheat even more...) the game.

We accept Coinbase only because the site was built with the Coinbase API and Coinbase is a reputable and widely-used service.

It is not "stealing" to tell people upfront exactly what will happen with incoming transactions from non-Coinbase addresses (and they don't even go to the site, they go to the pot payout). These transactions can't be counted because a) there's no way to verify that payments back to these addresses would actually go back to the user since it could have been generated from a service that uses multiple addresses, which means it would get lost in the ether; b) payouts to non-Coinbase (i.e. totally anonymous) addresses actually COULD be used to "cheat" since they couldn't be authenticated through the Coinbase system, so refusing non-Coinbase addresses upfront is actually proof of NOT "cheating".

But thanks anyways for your snide and baseless remarks bub  

[moderate]

Just wanted to post that I made a deposit to this, pretty much just to see what it was really and if it was legit. Received the 0.10 btc payout pretty much instantly so that's nice. Not that this is an endorsement or anything so don't shout at me if it goes wrong. Maybe I'll play again if I get bored, but no-one seemed to have the balls to try it out and it's an interesting concept. Could/should be built on though.

Hey Trevor, thank you for playing and providing your proof of payment and positive experience! I'm looking forward to other players posting their positive experiences here as well

Why do you accept Coinbase only ? Please don't repeat what's written in the site, I'm not interested in hearing about the incompetence again. Also, did you really mean to write


Any incoming transactions from non-Coinbase accounts will be counted as pot donations and go into the next payout pot


? Because that is just another definition for stealing, as well a very easy way to cheat (like if you needed to cheat even more...) the game.

It is not "stealing" to tell people upfront exactly what will happen with incoming transactions from non-Coinbase addresses (and they don't even go to the site, they go to the pot payout). idiocy snipped

Let me try to understand your reasoning... if you add some text in your site saying "we will steal any deposits that do not come from X", then it is not stealing because you wrote earlier you would steal them ? Wow..

[CoinFount]

Just wanted to post that I made a deposit to this, pretty much just to see what it was really and if it was legit. Received the 0.10 btc payout pretty much instantly so that's nice. Not that this is an endorsement or anything so don't shout at me if it goes wrong. Maybe I'll play again if I get bored, but no-one seemed to have the balls to try it out and it's an interesting concept. Could/should be built on though.

Hey Trevor, thank you for playing and providing your proof of payment and positive experience! I'm looking forward to other players posting their positive experiences here as well

Why do you accept Coinbase only ? Please don't repeat what's written in the site, I'm not interested in hearing about the incompetence again. Also, did you really mean to write


Any incoming transactions from non-Coinbase accounts will be counted as pot donations and go into the next payout pot


? Because that is just another definition for stealing, as well a very easy way to cheat (like if you needed to cheat even more...) the game.

It is not "stealing" to tell people upfront exactly what will happen with incoming transactions from non-Coinbase addresses (and they don't even go to the site, they go to the pot payout). idiocy snipped

Let me try to understand your reasoning... if you add some text in your site saying "we will steal any deposits that do not come from X", then it is not stealing because you wrote earlier you would steal them ? Wow..

No.
a) It doesn't say that. It says that all non-Coinbase transactions will be counted as pot donations. So in other words, if you like the idea of the game and want to donate into the pot (similar to donating to coin faucets), you have to do so from a non-Coinbase address.
b) This policy is clearly stated upfront, right next to the payment button. Are you implying that if people choose to send a pot donation, we're somehow doing something bad by doing exactly what we said we're going to do? Are coin faucet sites doing something bad by using their donations for coin faucets? You're ridiculous.

[moderate]

Just wanted to post that I made a deposit to this, pretty much just to see what it was really and if it was legit. Received the 0.10 btc payout pretty much instantly so that's nice. Not that this is an endorsement or anything so don't shout at me if it goes wrong. Maybe I'll play again if I get bored, but no-one seemed to have the balls to try it out and it's an interesting concept. Could/should be built on though.

Hey Trevor, thank you for playing and providing your proof of payment and positive experience! I'm looking forward to other players posting their positive experiences here as well

Why do you accept Coinbase only ? Please don't repeat what's written in the site, I'm not interested in hearing about the incompetence again. Also, did you really mean to write


Any incoming transactions from non-Coinbase accounts will be counted as pot donations and go into the next payout pot


? Because that is just another definition for stealing, as well a very easy way to cheat (like if you needed to cheat even more...) the game.

It is not "stealing" to tell people upfront exactly what will happen with incoming transactions from non-Coinbase addresses (and they don't even go to the site, they go to the pot payout). idiocy snipped

Let me try to understand your reasoning... if you add some text in your site saying "we will steal any deposits that do not come from X", then it is not stealing because you wrote earlier you would steal them ? Wow..

No.
a) It doesn't say that. It says that all non-Coinbase transactions will be counted as pot donations. So in other words, if you like the idea of the game and want to donate into the pot (similar to donating to coin faucets), you have to do so from a non-Coinbase address.
b) irrelevant

What will mostly likely happen instead is: someone unaware of your stupid "policy" will send a transaction from a standard client like, you know, bitcoin-qt. Then your reply will be "but we clearly stated we would steal your coins if you didn't send from coinbase, too bad!"

[CoinFount]

Just wanted to post that I made a deposit to this, pretty much just to see what it was really and if it was legit. Received the 0.10 btc payout pretty much instantly so that's nice. Not that this is an endorsement or anything so don't shout at me if it goes wrong. Maybe I'll play again if I get bored, but no-one seemed to have the balls to try it out and it's an interesting concept. Could/should be built on though.

Hey Trevor, thank you for playing and providing your proof of payment and positive experience! I'm looking forward to other players posting their positive experiences here as well

Why do you accept Coinbase only ? Please don't repeat what's written in the site, I'm not interested in hearing about the incompetence again. Also, did you really mean to write


Any incoming transactions from non-Coinbase accounts will be counted as pot donations and go into the next payout pot


? Because that is just another definition for stealing, as well a very easy way to cheat (like if you needed to cheat even more...) the game.

It is not "stealing" to tell people upfront exactly what will happen with incoming transactions from non-Coinbase addresses (and they don't even go to the site, they go to the pot payout). idiocy snipped

Let me try to understand your reasoning... if you add some text in your site saying "we will steal any deposits that do not come from X", then it is not stealing because you wrote earlier you would steal them ? Wow..

No.
a) It doesn't say that. It says that all non-Coinbase transactions will be counted as pot donations. So in other words, if you like the idea of the game and want to donate into the pot (similar to donating to coin faucets), you have to do so from a non-Coinbase address.
b) irrelevant

What will mostly likely happen instead is: someone unaware of your stupid "policy" will send a transaction from a standard client like, you know, bitcoin-qt. Then your reply will be "but we clearly stated we would steal your coins if you didn't send from coinbase, too bad!"

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. The site CANNOT send the payouts to non-authenticated addresses since this actually COULD be used to cheat. The policy is clearly stated upfront. If YOU don't read the clearly stated policy on ANY game before paying for it, whose fault is that? YOURS. But thanks anyways for continuing to bump my site's thread with your illogical trolling!

[moderate]

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. The site CANNOT send the payouts to non-authenticated addresses since this actually COULD be used to cheat.

It is hard for me to understand how someone so incompetent decided to announce a service with bitcoins. There is no such thing as "authenticated" addresses in bitcoin. I'm not even getting into the service per se, as others have already pointed out the issues with it.

Somehow you think your service is going to do better by rejecting stealing transactions coming from bitcoin-qt and every other wallet where the user actually has complete control all the time over his coins. Instead of accepting this fact, you are insisting that accepting only from coinbase is somehow smarter from your part, it is not and you are an idiot.

[CoinFount]

It is hard for me to understand anything.

FTFY. Just kidding...

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. The site CANNOT send the payouts to non-authenticated addresses since this actually COULD be used to cheat.

It is hard for me to understand how someone so incompetent decided to announce a service with bitcoins. There is no such thing as "authenticated" addresses in bitcoin. I'm not even getting into the service per se, as others have already pointed out the issues with it.

Somehow you think your service is going to do better by rejecting transactions coming from bitcoin-qt and every other wallet where the user actually has complete control all the time over his coins. Instead of accepting this fact, you are insisting that accepting only from coinbase is somehow smarter from your part, it is not and you are an idiot.

The users are authenticated at Coinbase. I'm sorry you don't understand technical details like authentication through a service. It has nothing to do with authenticating Bitcoins themselves.

You also clearly don't understand simple concepts like why Coinbase is required (so that totally anonymous payouts can't be made) nor WHY totally anonymous payouts can't be made (because that actually WOULD make it easier to "cheat" if the payouts couldn't be tied to Coinbase users). Again, please feel free to continue bumping my thread with your rambling nonsense as much as you like