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Author Topic: Is Bitcoin legally anonymous  (Read 2125 times)
enquirer
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August 05, 2011, 02:02:06 AM
 #1

So every transaction can be traced to its origin. If I connect to the network through TOR and generate 50 BTC, and then buy some substance with it, it's very hard to trace that to me. But even if I bought coins at an exchange, and they, as required, have  verified my identity, I can still do the following:

- create another wallet (possibly online, like instawallet)
- transfer some BTC to that wallet
- buy substance with that second wallet
- erase that second wallet

now I can always say in court that I paid some other guy for his service (drug withdrawal consultancy?) and that's him who later bought the substance. While obvious lie, can that be considered a proof beyond reasonable doubt that I indeed bought the substance?
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August 05, 2011, 02:32:30 AM
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That isn't how investigations work.

They don't need to prove that step, they just need to be able to follow the connection which will surely lead them to stuff that they can prove.  And there is always something that can be proven.

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August 05, 2011, 02:41:09 AM
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That isn't how investigations work.

They don't need to prove that step, they just need to be able to follow the connection which will surely lead them to stuff that they can prove.  And there is always something that can be proven.

Hes emphasizing the words in bold, so they must be true.
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August 05, 2011, 02:41:36 AM
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If you're using Silk Road you'll be fine. If that is what you're asking.

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August 05, 2011, 02:48:26 AM
 #5

That isn't how investigations work.

They don't need to prove that step, they just need to be able to follow the connection which will surely lead them to stuff that they can prove.  And there is always something that can be proven.


Right...thats not how investigations work...too much trouble.  I'd be more worried about them finding the 'substance' in the mail en-route and sending a fed-ex truck loaded with a SAWT team to your door instead of goodies.

After they charge with you with 20 bullshit offences, you will punk out, make a deal and take a plea and no one will give 2 shits about what the fuck a block explorer is.


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kjj
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August 05, 2011, 03:15:36 AM
 #6

That isn't how investigations work.

They don't need to prove that step, they just need to be able to follow the connection which will surely lead them to stuff that they can prove.  And there is always something that can be proven.
Hes emphasizing the words in bold, so they must be true.

Ask Martha Stewart if you don't believe me.  Or spend some time talking to actual cops (investigators).

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Jim Hyslop
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August 06, 2011, 03:52:47 AM
 #7

So every transaction can be traced to its origin. If I connect to the network through TOR and generate 50 BTC, and then buy some substance with it, it's very hard to trace that to me. But even if I bought coins at an exchange, and they, as required, have  verified my identity, I can still do the following:

- create another wallet (possibly online, like instawallet)
- transfer some BTC to that wallet
- buy substance with that second wallet
- erase that second wallet

now I can always say in court that I paid some other guy for his service (drug withdrawal consultancy?) and that's him who later bought the substance. While obvious lie, can that be considered a proof beyond reasonable doubt that I indeed bought the substance?

I think trying to explain how the Bitcoin system works to a jury will most likely be a lost cause, unless & until BTC become much more mainstream. Most people won't understand how it works, so they won't understand how the law enforcers would connect the dots from you to the drug dealer.

Unless I'm mistaken, what kji is trying to say is that the police likely wouldn't use the BTC as direct evidence. More likely, the investigators will use the transaction history to draw up a list of potential suspects, which will include you and a bunch of other people who have nothing to do with the drug transactions. Then, they will dig further into each suspect using standard, existing investigative techniques. They'll narrow the list to a few suspects (including you) and gather evidence in the "traditional" way (surveillance, phone taps, paid informants - whatever they currently do), and finally arrest you based on that evidence.

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August 06, 2011, 04:03:21 AM
 #8

Unless I'm mistaken, what kji is trying to say is that the police likely wouldn't use the BTC as direct evidence. More likely, the investigators will use the transaction history to draw up a list of potential suspects, which will include you and a bunch of other people who have nothing to do with the drug transactions. Then, they will dig further into each suspect using standard, existing investigative techniques. They'll narrow the list to a few suspects (including you) and gather evidence in the "traditional" way (surveillance, phone taps, paid informants - whatever they currently do), and finally arrest you based on that evidence.

Way too much CSI & Law and Order going on here.

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indio007
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August 06, 2011, 04:16:24 AM
 #9

Most likely you will

A. Confess
or
B. get snitched out for confessing to a third party.


Phinnaeus Gage
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August 06, 2011, 05:51:04 AM
 #10

So every transaction can be traced to its origin. If I connect to the network through TOR and generate 50 BTC, and then buy some substance with it, it's very hard to trace that to me. But even if I bought coins at an exchange, and they, as required, have  verified my identity, I can still do the following:

- create another wallet (possibly online, like instawallet)
- transfer some BTC to that wallet
- buy substance with that second wallet
- erase that second wallet

now I can always say in court that I paid some other guy for his service (drug withdrawal consultancy?) and that's him who later bought the substance. While obvious lie, can that be considered a proof beyond reasonable doubt that I indeed bought the substance?

Hey, enquirer. Since you're new here, you probably didn't take time to read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=a420.msg429825#msg420420 It's quite possible that the MoDs moved it again (normally done daily at 11:11PM), but it's easily found by typing in the search box (#BOisaMF #BOisanMF) then start reading from the very first post of the thread that's generated.

Just in case you can't find it, I'll outline the main points. Each and every member on this forum is traceable via, what they refer to as. "IP Prime". It's a Hybred IP address locator that works in conjunction with GPSii. We, as members of this board, don't have access to your exact address, but the person who started and mans this forum does. Here's the kicker. Nobody knows who that person or pothead is, but the post I provided you offers up convincing proof that it's a US Black Oops operation. Remember, we're making our own currency here, hence their special attraction to us. Obviously, the BO doesn't read everything written here or, for that matter, at the 69,000 other forums and websites they operate. But a system is in place that gives them a red, yellow, or purple flag when certain words are posted--even nrop. Well, guess which flag you rose when you mentioned TOR (always print it in red and italics to cloak the term--one of the hacks discovered by one of the members of this one forum). A yellow flag alerts them that there's a reply to a red flagged post (this post has now been yellowed flagged). But the real threat is the purple flag. It's the one that has everybody in an uproar. You'll see what I mean when you read the FULL post (a MUST  read). A purple flag is raised over at the BO operation when you type a keyword in the post box, but delete it before you press the post button. You see, the kind folks over at the BO are able to read what you're typing in real time. They even have a program that lets them know what you're going to type before you type it. The program's called the BBAU, but at the moment I can't remember what it stands for. I don't mean to put so much weight on your shoulders, man, but be careful of what you ask for on this and other forums, now that you know (or maybe you already knew, thereby making me write this post for nothing).

One more piece of advice for you, since you're new here. You've noticed a string of numbers in the signatures of some of the members here. Here's how to figure out which ones to trust. Write the numbers on a piece of paper (in order) deleting any letters with the exception of the Greek, Romanian, and Bukus ones. Start with the first number. If it's odd, change it to a random single even digit number, making sure it's not the same number you started with. Do the same thing with each and every number in order. Of course, when you encounter an even number, do exactly the same thing, but this time make it odd. When your finish, add all the numbers together to see if the resulting number is even or odd. Then, and only then, you'll know which members are real.

I hope I've shed a little light on what you can expect from me, and maybe others, on this forum. And remember: Don't feed the Trolls!




indio007
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August 06, 2011, 06:44:27 AM
 #11

Well, that link redirect to the index. Inputting the search term you gave only leads back to this topic.
indicasteve
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August 06, 2011, 06:46:26 AM
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Quote
Don't feed the Trolls!

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Phinnaeus Gage
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August 06, 2011, 12:59:43 PM
 #13

Well, that link redirect to the index. Inputting the search term you gave only leads back to this topic.

The link's working now, but remember that the MoDs have to move it often to keep it from the BO's prying eyes. My bad on the link. I changed it to the correct keyword and it should work now.

indio007
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August 06, 2011, 04:14:31 PM
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same result as b4.....
Phinnaeus Gage
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August 06, 2011, 04:41:52 PM
 #15

same result as b4.....

Sorry about that, indio007. I'm going to research the problem to get it fix. BTW, are you truly interested in reading that WHOLE post? I wonder if the OP (enquirer) was able to read it before the MoDs moved it, again.
indio007
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August 06, 2011, 05:19:46 PM
 #16

same result as b4.....

Sorry about that, indio007. I'm going to research the problem to get it fix. BTW, are you truly interested in reading that WHOLE post? I wonder if the OP (enquirer) was able to read it before the MoDs moved it, again.

Yes very much. I read very fast so length don't matter.
Fakeman
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August 06, 2011, 05:27:49 PM
 #17

OK this is not even funny guys, troll harder or something.

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August 06, 2011, 05:30:28 PM
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The bitcoin connects - even if detected - is no evidence for a court of law. But it is enough for the investigators to find the physical box with the illegal substance. That box is evidence, especially if they catch it right at the delivery company and know who sent it to whom.

Misspelling protects against dictionary attacks NOT
Phinnaeus Gage
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August 06, 2011, 06:06:52 PM
 #19

same result as b4.....

Sorry about that, indio007. I'm going to research the problem to get it fix. BTW, are you truly interested in reading that WHOLE post? I wonder if the OP (enquirer) was able to read it before the MoDs moved it, again.

Yes very much. I read very fast so length don't matter.

I just got a PM from one of the members here stating that the entire thread had to be permanently removed. Perhaps fake man or some other member may have a screen shot of said thread.

indio007
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August 06, 2011, 07:25:51 PM
 #20

same result as b4.....

Sorry about that, indio007. I'm going to research the problem to get it fix. BTW, are you truly interested in reading that WHOLE post? I wonder if the OP (enquirer) was able to read it before the MoDs moved it, again.

Yes very much. I read very fast so length don't matter.

I just got a PM from one of the members here stating that the entire thread had to be permanently removed. Perhaps fake man or some other member may have a screen shot of said thread.



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