## 1320 ASICMINER DIRECT SHARES @0.29[btc] - 7 DAYS AUCTION - ESCROW POSSIBLE ##

[SebastianJu]

Guys... User750 still insists that the Dutch Auction is the normal auction worldwide. I cant imagine that. Sothebys isnt dropping the price of the highest bidder to 1USD above the second lowest bidder. In fact i know these dutch rules only from ebay.

Am i wrong and are these dutch auction rules normal so that i should have mentioned it?

[User705]

Here is Sotheby's absentee bidder form.
http://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/sothebys/PDFs/Wine/L13701_absenteeBid.pdf
Notice where it says
These bids are to be executed as cheaply as is permitted by other bids or reserves and in an amount up to but not exceeding the specified amounts.

[ThunderSheep]

That's the strangest statement I've seen.  Maybe it's a language barrier.  In your example the bidder would not get to buy items at a price below somebody else's bid and I'm not asking that either.  In any auction I can call an auction house and leave a maximum bid with them.  When the auction occurs the auctioneer bids for me at the proper bid increments until either someone overbids me or I win but at no time does the price magically jump to my highest bid if there isn't a bidder that bid one increment below me.

This sounds more like an absentee bid.  Sotheby's does permit this as seen here: http://www.sothebys.com/en/Glossary.html

Absentee Bid
A method of bidding for those who cannot or do not wish to attend an auction. Absentee bids are also called “written,” “commission” or “order” bids and may be placed by filling out and submitting an Absentee Bid Form, or online.

Absentee bids are usually registered prior to the start of the auction and specify the maximum bid the bidder is willing to pay.  A proxy bidder or the auctioneer themselves will place bids on behalf of the absentee bidder, increasing the bid by the minimum bid increment up to and including the maximum bid each time the absentee bidder is outbid.

For what it's worth, the style of auction that SebastianJu describes is the style that I thought I was bidding in.  I also didn't realize that User705's bid was an absentee bid as nothing was written to differentiate it from other bids and he or she placed multiple bids.

[whalezy]

I noticed that I'm the closest outbidder, so if there are people who cannot conduct their biddings. Please contact me.

[SebastianJu]

Here is Sotheby's absentee bidder form.
http://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/sothebys/PDFs/Wine/L13701_absenteeBid.pdf
Notice where it says
These bids are to be executed as cheaply as is permitted by other bids or reserves and in an amount up to but not exceeding the specified amounts.

So you were absent while auctioning? You realize that sotheby's is writing about a special form to fill for that. I neither mentioned such a possibility nor did you claim that your bid is special than the bids from others.

[User705]

What else do you call bids in an auction that runs for 7 days and where bidders may or may not be there when the auction ends?  You are correct nothing was stated in the description and if you thought one way and I thought another how does it get resolved?  When I bid .33 there was only 1 person for 1 share at that level and plenty of room at .32  The bid was that if .32 would get exhausted I would be 1st in .33 without having to monitor the exact time when .32 ran out and having to rebid it again.  Also I brought this up BEFORE auction end when it appeared that .32 wouldn't run out.  SebastianJu could've responded that it's either .33 or .32 is at a different spot in line or any other possible responses.  Also SebastianJu can simply say that he wants it his way or nothing else then fine but don't try to say that this is some sort of strange anomaly and no one does auctions this way when the reality is the exact opposite and auctions are done this way.

[User705]

Here is Sotheby's absentee bidder form.
http://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/sothebys/PDFs/Wine/L13701_absenteeBid.pdf
Notice where it says
These bids are to be executed as cheaply as is permitted by other bids or reserves and in an amount up to but not exceeding the specified amounts.

So you were absent while auctioning? You realize that sotheby's is writing about a special form to fill for that. I neither mentioned such a possibility nor did you claim that your bid is special than the bids from others.

No what are you talking about.  Everyone here sat for 7 straight days in front of their computer bidding.  Just pick one already.  Either yes I'm right and bidders should be .32 because the rules were not clear or no and you want the higher bids.

[SebastianJu]

What else do you call bids in an auction that runs for 7 days and where bidders may or may not be there when the auction ends?  You are correct nothing was stated in the description and if you thought one way and I thought another how does it get resolved?  When I bid .33 there was only 1 person for 1 share at that level and plenty of room at .32  The bid was that if .32 would get exhausted I would be 1st in .33 without having to monitor the exact time when .32 ran out and having to rebid it again.  Also I brought this up BEFORE auction end when it appeared that .32 wouldn't run out.  SebastianJu could've responded that it's either .33 or .32 is at a different spot in line or any other possible responses.  Also SebastianJu can simply say that he wants it his way or nothing else then fine but don't try to say that this is some sort of strange anomaly and no one does auctions this way when the reality is the exact opposite and auctions are done this way.

Nothing kept you from watching this auction all the time. Absentee forms are for bidders that cant take part in the auction. Thats probably not for you. And even when... thats something you had to clear before. If i would have done such an auction the last days then there obviously would some numbers be missing in the status report since i would have to log the actual bid and the maximum bid. I never showed those numbers nor did i note such things since i never intended a auction of the type you want.

You might have spoken about that before the auction ended and i answered the way i thought your question was meant. That was it. Shouldnt you have inform you before bidding if youre unsure and had to ask if the auction was your preferred type?

Anyway... i think your search of absentee rules and rules of auctions like ebay is some kind of dropping the price. I wont jump in on that since you are the only one that claims auctions have to run the way you think.

To end this... will you accept the outcome of the auction or not? There are more than 30 persons that were overbidden with their shares and that would like to get the shares. I cant accept making this thread into a bazaar haggling about prizes to safe a couple breadcrumbs. This is not a sales talk, this was an auction. And the auction decided the price. No haggling included.

So let me know if you accept the outcome or not.

[User705]

... I wont jump in on that since you are the only one that claims auctions have to run the way you think.

...

I'm not claiming anything.  Every single real auction description appears to contradict you.  I'd ask for you to at least point to anywhere on this forum in your description or elsewhere that this rule is spelled out but it doesn't appear you are even willing to entertain the possibility of being wrong.  When is the deadline for payment?

[SebastianJu]

... I wont jump in on that since you are the only one that claims auctions have to run the way you think.

...

I'm not claiming anything.  Every single real auction description appears to contradict you.  I'd ask for you to at least point to anywhere on this forum in your description or elsewhere that this rule is spelled out but it doesn't appear you are even willing to entertain the possibility of being wrong.  When is the deadline for payment?

Only because you claim normal auctions have to include these special treatments doesnt make it true. In fact its a special things one would await to define when its used. I didnt define it so you cant guess that i will use this rule.

Anyway... im tired of this. This is no bazaar. I will not drop the price for special rules that never were mentioned in the auction description. That you asked in the thread if this rule applies shows that werent sure either. I dont know what auctions you know normally. I even didnt know that there are such auctions besides ebay.

If you dont want the shares for that price then state this and youre out. I wont write about this another day.

[stripykitteh]

@SebastianJu   ok,it's my fault, and this is my first time taking part in auction,and sorry for that . Then, I obey the rule, and I replace  my earlier  bid 170@0.31 with  1@0.32, is that ok ?

It's not his first time; he's done this before. In August he bid on transisto's auction, and was one of the winners:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277727.msg2969315#msg2969315

transisto put the following feedback against his account:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=130397 (click on 'Show ratings.')

Breach of contract.

"All bid are considered binding contracts."

Did not pay it's shares.

I'm guessing his modus operandi is to bid on an auction hoping to flip the shares later on an exchange. If the price on the exchange drops he just fails to follow through with the contract and pretends to be an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

I note the irony of his signature:

reputation is everything.

[User705]

I thought I was done discussing it too.  

... I wont jump in on that since you are the only one that claims auctions have to run the way you think.

...

I'm not claiming anything.  Every single real auction description appears to contradict you.  I'd ask for you to at least point to anywhere on this forum in your description or elsewhere that this rule is spelled out but it doesn't appear you are even willing to entertain the possibility of being wrong.  When is the deadline for payment?

But you seem to want to keep going so let's test your theory.  Name a place that runs auctions the way you claim except apparently auctions here.  I'm certainly open to learning if I'm wrong.  Maybe in different places of the world it's different.  

[jimmothy]

I thought I was done discussing it too.  

... I wont jump in on that since you are the only one that claims auctions have to run the way you think.

...

I'm not claiming anything.  Every single real auction description appears to contradict you.  I'd ask for you to at least point to anywhere on this forum in your description or elsewhere that this rule is spelled out but it doesn't appear you are even willing to entertain the possibility of being wrong.  When is the deadline for payment?

But you seem to want to keep going so let's test your theory.  Name a place that runs auctions the way you claim except apparently auctions here.  I'm certainly open to learning if I'm wrong.  Maybe in different places of the world it's different.  

Ebay works in the exact way Seb ran his auction. In fact in order to cancel a bid you need the sellers permission. Bids are binding.

[User705]

I thought I was done discussing it too.  

... I wont jump in on that since you are the only one that claims auctions have to run the way you think.

...

I'm not claiming anything.  Every single real auction description appears to contradict you.  I'd ask for you to at least point to anywhere on this forum in your description or elsewhere that this rule is spelled out but it doesn't appear you are even willing to entertain the possibility of being wrong.  When is the deadline for payment?

But you seem to want to keep going so let's test your theory.  Name a place that runs auctions the way you claim except apparently auctions here.  I'm certainly open to learning if I'm wrong.  Maybe in different places of the world it's different.  

Ebay works in the exact way Seb ran his auction. In fact in order to cancel a bid you need the sellers permission. Bids are binding.

That's not correct.  You bid and eBay just bids the next increment with your max price staying hidden until it is reached.  Seller doesn't get that price unless there's another bidder bidding.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bidding-overview.html

[SebastianJu]

I note the irony of his signature:

reputation is everything.

Its a bit hard when the trust is red at some point...

I thought I was done discussing it too.  

... I wont jump in on that since you are the only one that claims auctions have to run the way you think.

...

I'm not claiming anything.  Every single real auction description appears to contradict you.  I'd ask for you to at least point to anywhere on this forum in your description or elsewhere that this rule is spelled out but it doesn't appear you are even willing to entertain the possibility of being wrong.  When is the deadline for payment?

But you seem to want to keep going so let's test your theory.  Name a place that runs auctions the way you claim except apparently auctions here.  I'm certainly open to learning if I'm wrong.  Maybe in different places of the world it's different.  

I would want the payment before the next div payment since friedcat seems to change shares to new owners before he pays out the divs.

I was noticed that dutch auctions are backward auctions in the first place. I already did such auction for my bitburners once and it was good. And there you bid and pay the price you bid too. No rule like you claimed included.

What place should i tell you? Practically every auction works the way that you pay the price you bid. Only because there are special forms for bidders that cant be there when the auction runs doesnt make this a general rule. I dont even know an auction where it runs the way you claim. Except ebay of course.

Could we bring this to an end maybe? I wont give you a discount for a rule i didnt specify. Only that you assumes a rule applies doesnt make your believe binding to me.

I thought I was done discussing it too. 

... I wont jump in on that since you are the only one that claims auctions have to run the way you think.

...

I'm not claiming anything.  Every single real auction description appears to contradict you.  I'd ask for you to at least point to anywhere on this forum in your description or elsewhere that this rule is spelled out but it doesn't appear you are even willing to entertain the possibility of being wrong.  When is the deadline for payment?

But you seem to want to keep going so let's test your theory.  Name a place that runs auctions the way you claim except apparently auctions here.  I'm certainly open to learning if I'm wrong.  Maybe in different places of the world it's different. 

Ebay works in the exact way Seb ran his auction. In fact in order to cancel a bid you need the sellers permission. Bids are binding.

I think ebay is like he wants it to. If you bid 35USD on an item and the next highest bid is 20USD then the highest bidder only has to pay 20.5USD or so. But thats something special that isnt used in any other auction. For example police auctioning seized things, government auctioning leftovers, sotheby's and and and... its a special rule and only believing that such rule exists in this auction doesnt make it binding for me then.

[User705]

SebastianJu you keep saying that auctions elsewhere run this way that you think but I've never seen it.  The auctions you say are short and run in person and that is not what's happening here.  First because it's multi item and second because it's 7 days long.  Other possible auctions are blind bid auctions but this wasn't that either.  Why don't we move this to another thread.  I've stated countless times that auctions here are seriously lacking clear rules and it's a recipe for conflict. 

[chriswilmer]

My assumption about how these auctions works is in agreement with SebastianJu.

[explorer]

My assumption about how these auctions works is in agreement with SebastianJu.

That's because it is labeled an 'Auction', and that is how auctions work. bid and either be out bid, or pay what you bid and take possession of your new item. end of story.

 SebastianJu, if you exercise the ignore button, its just like if he went away 

[User705]

My assumption about how these auctions works is in agreement with SebastianJu.

Good to know that auctions should get done with assumptions.  In any case the issue is closed now.

[bitsalame]

User705, congrats, you are my first ignored ever.