Bitcoin millionaires, tell us your story!

[btcprice]

I know, I know, we are sure to get a lot of responses about how people everyone is a winner. I have to believe there are some authentic stories out there though.

With the current price at Mt. Gox hovering around the $800 level, if you have 1250 bitcoins you are a bitcoin millionaire.

How did you get your bitcoins? Did you mine them or did you buy them? If you bought them what was the price you bought them?

Now that you are a millionaire did you tell off your boss and quit your job or are you using the money for retirement?

Have you done anything special or extravagant with your money?

[faizaa123]

pretty sure all the millionaires are sitting on yachts not worrying about bitcoinforum heresay.

[KieranJones1]

Now that you are a millionaire did you tell off your boss and quit your job or are you using the money for retirement?

Have you done anything special or extravagant with your money?

Remember that a good deal of "bitcoin millionaires", even those who just rediscovered fortunes from 2010, are still holding onto their "fortune" rather than cashing out - so the two questions I quoted don't necessarily apply to those people!

[btcprice]

pretty sure all the millionaires are sitting on yachts not worrying about bitcoinforum heresay.

Well it's just been a little over a month when the price was at $135. If someone had 1250 bitcoins their net worth would be just over $150,000. Not hardly enough to retire on.

If I had a million dollars in wealth from bitcoin alone I would still want to discuss with people whether they thought the price would go down drastically so I would frequent this forum even now.

[Rob768]

A million bucks isn't enough to retire on.  Heck, I'm 32 and worth close to $3 million (Not from BTC), yet I still work my butt off everyday, albeit for myself.  If I was 70 maybe then I would consider retiring, but a lot can happen in the next 40 years.  Need to keep working to make sure I have the life I want, and for my sanity's sake as well lol.

[baggage]

Lets say I had a couple million in bitcoin (I wish) and wanted to cash out (I wouldn't yet.)  

How would I do it? What it the best method?  I keep hearing it's difficult and that there is a long wait time to
get your cash. I know nothing about this but interested in being enlightened.

[CoinHoarder]

pretty sure all the millionaires are sitting on yachts not worrying about bitcoinforum heresay.

Well it's just been a little over a month when the price was at $135. If someone had 1250 bitcoins their net worth would be just over $150,000. Not hardly enough to retire on.

If I had a million dollars in wealth from bitcoin alone I would still want to discuss with people whether they thought the price would go down drastically so I would frequent this forum even now.

Ummm. You might want to check your math. 1250 BTC is worth much more than $150,000

[balanghai]

Ummm. You might want to check your math. 1250 BTC is worth much more than $150,000

And it would be worth more when it hits more than a thousand.

[Dafar]

I own 10 bitcoins and oh boy let me tell you... it feels great to be a millionaire at age 25

[EvilPanda]

A million bucks isn't enough to retire on.  Heck, I'm 32 and worth close to $3 million (Not from BTC), yet I still work my butt off everyday, albeit for myself.  If I was 70 maybe then I would consider retiring, but a lot can happen in the next 40 years.  Need to keep working to make sure I have the life I want, and for my sanity's sake as well lol.

It is - depends where you live and what standards you're used to. Where I come from you are among the lucky ones if you have $100k saved up. If you started bragging you have $3 mil you'd need some armed guards 24/7.

[btcprice]

pretty sure all the millionaires are sitting on yachts not worrying about bitcoinforum heresay.

Well it's just been a little over a month when the price was at $135. If someone had 1250 bitcoins their net worth would be just over $150,000. Not hardly enough to retire on.

If I had a million dollars in wealth from bitcoin alone I would still want to discuss with people whether they thought the price would go down drastically so I would frequent this forum even now.

Ummm. You might want to check your math. 1250 BTC is worth much more than $150,000

In the previous sentence I was referring to "it's just been a little over a month when the price was at $135". At that time it was worth just a bit more than $150,000.

[BitTrade]

Nobody is going to post here.  Because IRS.

[bitbob82]

well,if i have the 1250 bitcoin I would sell them all

pay the 40% tax or whatever, and keep the rest to enjoy life

[tvbcof]

Nobody is going to post here.  Because IRS.

It would be monumentally stupid to end up in legal trouble and broke when one could just suck it up and pay the taxes.

Anyway, the Bush tax cuts have offered the opportunity for (American) people who are careful to not actually make money the old fashioned way to pay very minimal taxes.  This is supposed to be for trust-fund brats who don't lower themselves to have a job, but it looks like a clever bitcoiner might be able to slip through the same crack in the door.  As always, consult a qualified tax professional, etc, etc.

[501]

Lets say I had a couple million in bitcoin (I wish) and wanted to cash out (I wouldn't yet.)  

How would I do it? What it the best method?  I keep hearing it's difficult and that there is a long wait time to
get your cash. I know nothing about this but interested in being enlightened.

You could sell them to Coinbase and get your money in a few days. But you would drop the price drastically if you put out such a huge sell order.

Better option would be to use a bot to put up small sell orders every 30 minutes or so (I'm not aware of any Coinbase bots so you might have to use BTC-e or maybe Bitstamp).

Personally I think it would be silly to "cash out" right now, because based on all of the news around bitcoin it seems like we're about to start a very strong uptrend. I would probably exchange 20% for USD just as a safety net, and keep the rest as BTC.

[dominicwin]

well,if i have the 1250 bitcoin I would sell them all

pay the 40% tax or whatever, and keep the rest to enjoy life

Well if you decided to pay that much tax haha, you wouldn't be enjoying life for too long depending on how old you are now lol.

[beetcoin]

yeah you could hold them for a year and pay only 15%.

[dadach]

A million bucks isn't enough to retire on.  Heck, I'm 32 and worth close to $3 million (Not from BTC), yet I still work my butt off everyday, albeit for myself.  If I was 70 maybe then I would consider retiring, but a lot can happen in the next 40 years.  Need to keep working to make sure I have the life I want, and for my sanity's sake as well lol.

You sir are a true entrepreneur. When I was in college, I was like when my bitcoin are worth millions, I am retiring. Now I can retire, and I am working even harder because work is fun for me now and money is no object. It is extremely crazy how that works.

yeah, but bitcoin wealth probably made you get the job you want...crazy indeed

[BitTrade]

Nobody is going to post here.  Because IRS.

Anyway, the Bush tax cuts have offered the opportunity for (American) people who are careful to not actually make money the old fashioned way to pay very minimal taxes.

Ha!  Sarcasm.... Right?

[Hawker]

I mined them in 2011 and got them from my shops.

I also tried day trading and had my ass handed to me in June or so.  I lost a few hundred Bitcoin then in the various bear traps.  I learnt a lot of respect for the people that can make day-trading work.  Even if its all down to luck, they have a lot of guts to do it.

I sold 500 BTC for $119.99 and I used the fiat to buy a nice car: http://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/rx/rx-450h/  In real terms, it cost me less than $2000.  I don't want a yacht - the car is plenty reward for a fun investment in something I believe in.

I still have about 1900 BTC.  

I believe Bitcoin is still ludicrously under-priced.  Myself and a friend bought a KNC miner on ebay.de on Thursday and are looking to buy more.  I won't sell again until the price gets over £1000 which is $1600 and then I will sell exactly 1000.

[fran2k]

A million bucks isn't enough to retire on.

shut up lol

Jajajaj, just move out to South America and will be enough

[Hawker]

Why do people dream of retiring and being "set for life" anyway. Its a pretty boring way to live.

Because having to work for a living doesn't make life less boring and if your job is boring it compounds the issue.

[CoinHoarder]

pretty sure all the millionaires are sitting on yachts not worrying about bitcoinforum heresay.

Well it's just been a little over a month when the price was at $135. If someone had 1250 bitcoins their net worth would be just over $150,000. Not hardly enough to retire on.

If I had a million dollars in wealth from bitcoin alone I would still want to discuss with people whether they thought the price would go down drastically so I would frequent this forum even now.

Ummm. You might want to check your math. 1250 BTC is worth much more than $150,000

In the previous sentence I was referring to "it's just been a little over a month when the price was at $135". At that time it was worth just a bit more than $150,000.

OH, my apologies. I didn't notice the date of your post.

[Rob768]

My goal is to be set in for life if for some reason I decided not to work any longer.  It's nice to have the option. Much less worry!

[tntdgcr]

yeah you could hold them for a year and pay only 15%.

or constantly be trading , and never hold anything over couple "days" -- oh wait, that's wallstreets game

[zeroday]

Why do people dream of retiring and being "set for life" anyway. Its a pretty boring way to live.

They will just start working on their own dream instead of wasting 8 hours of their daily life to enrich a stupid fat boss.

[EvilPanda]

Why do people dream of retiring and being "set for life" anyway. Its a pretty boring way to live.

Because having to work for a living doesn't make life less boring and if your job is boring it compounds the issue.

Maybe magicmexican would feel bored being able to lie on a beach of some carribean island thinking whether he should go swimming or pour himself another drink - I certainly wouldn't  

[blacksails]

Why do people dream of retiring and being "set for life" anyway. Its a pretty boring way to live.

Because having to work for a living doesn't make life less boring and if your job is boring it compounds the issue.

Maybe magicmexican would feel bored being able to lie on a beach of some carribean island thinking whether he should go swimming or pour himself another drink - I certainly wouldn't  

I think it would be nice for a while, but then it will probably get boring. So you must have something to do. Even though if you're set for life you can work on/with whatever you want!
That's the dream, isn't it?

[Mjbmonetarymetals]

[Littleshop]

A million bucks isn't enough to retire on.  Heck, I'm 32 and worth close to $3 million (Not from BTC), yet I still work my butt off everyday, albeit for myself.  If I was 70 maybe then I would consider retiring, but a lot can happen in the next 40 years.  Need to keep working to make sure I have the life I want, and for my sanity's sake as well lol.

Though 3 million is enough though maybe not enough for your needs.  You should be able to make more than $100,000 in gains each year just from that money.  With the average long term returns the stock market and real estate you would on average end up still building up money (to cover inflation and keep the returns growing) if you only pulled out $100,000.  If you were above average in investments you could pull out a lot more than that. 

[fallinglantern]

yeah you could hold them for a year and pay only 15%.

This is thus far the most tax-optimal strategy I've seen.

[dominicwin]

A million bucks isn't enough to retire on.  Heck, I'm 32 and worth close to $3 million (Not from BTC), yet I still work my butt off everyday, albeit for myself.  If I was 70 maybe then I would consider retiring, but a lot can happen in the next 40 years.  Need to keep working to make sure I have the life I want, and for my sanity's sake as well lol.

Though 3 million is enough though maybe not enough for your needs.  You should be able to make more than $100,000 in gains each year just from that money.  With the average long term returns the stock market and real estate you would on average end up still building up money (to cover inflation and keep the returns growing) if you only pulled out $100,000.  If you were above average in investments you could pull out a lot more than that. 

I don't think he is estimating his worth of $3million in liquid cash. At 32 though retiring early, your expenses are likely to go up a lot since you'll have a lot of free time. The $3million or whatever it may be will not last your lifetime and your still very young of working age. Inflation, crises, etc.

[tvbcof]

Nobody is going to post here.  Because IRS.

Anyway, the Bush tax cuts have offered the opportunity for (American) people who are careful to not actually make money the old fashioned way to pay very minimal taxes.

Ha!  Sarcasm.... Right?

...
This was extended through 2012 in legislation passed by Congress and signed by President Barack Obama on Dec 17, 2010. The American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012 (signed on January 2, 2013) made qualified dividends a permanent part of the tax code but added a 20% rate on income in the new highest 39.6% tax bracket. As a result:
 - Qualified dividends and long term capital gains are taxed at 0% for those in the 10% and 15% income tax brackets.
...

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States

As always, obtain the services of a qualified tax specialist.  Not Wikipedia.

[Conqueror]

I mined them in 2011 and got them from my shops.

I also tried day trading and had my ass handed to me in June or so.  I lost a few hundred Bitcoin then in the various bear traps.  I learnt a lot of respect for the people that can make day-trading work.  Even if its all down to luck, they have a lot of guts to do it.

I sold 500 BTC for $119.99 and I used the fiat to buy a nice car: http://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/rx/rx-450h/  In real terms, it cost me less than $2000.  I don't want a yacht - the car is plenty reward for a fun investment in something I believe in.

I still have about 1900 BTC.  

I believe Bitcoin is still ludicrously under-priced.  Myself and a friend bought a KNC miner on ebay.de on Thursday and are looking to buy more.  I won't sell again until the price gets over £1000 which is $1600 and then I will sell exactly 1000.

Wow, I wish I had 19BTC...

[Johnny Bitcoinseed]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

[tvbcof]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will about zero.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

Totally spot-on.

Another difficulty is that one has to be able to hold onto it.  40-60  years is a long time for some Goldman Sacks or government official to get their hands on another person's nest-egg (all manners of investment options, and even the demand deposits held in a bank.)  The more one tries to play their hand to make their money work for them, the more likely one is to have it appropriated.

An old gomer like me who already owns property free and clear and has fewer years left might be able to avoid eating cat-food in his golden years, but younger people better have a lot more than $1M and also be very savvy on how it is leveraged.

[Hawker]

..snip...

An old gomer like me who already owns property free and clear and has fewer years left might be able to avoid eating cat-food in his golden years, but younger people better have a lot more than $1M and also be very savvy on how it is leveraged.

One of the beauties of Bitcoin is that you can transfer the whole lot to your heirs without the Inland Revenue ever even knowing the coins existed. 

[Fila Ford]

i just really wish i was in the know about bitcoins back when they were worth pennies

would be really beautiful to be that lucky since i am a hoarder and would probably have never sold them all no matter what the price

as it is now i am trying to obtain my first coin but my hubby wont let me buy any - he says i have to earn them teeheehee  

[KieranJones1]

Oh my god, Fila Ford, is your husband pimping you out for bitcoins?!

[Fila Ford]

Oh my god, Fila Ford, is your husband pimping you out for bitcoins?!

lmbo no way!

he just doesnt believe in them since he is so set in his ways with his 401k and other investments

i will probably start buying small amounts soon but i can understand him not wanting to give me the money to buy 1-5 bitcoins like i want

i am going to learn as much as i can right now and maybe i can start selling things for bitcoins - i used to sell random junk on eBay but i have been looking through the sales parts of this forum and it seems like i dont have a lot of knowledge about the things that sell on here

maybe i can bake some cookies and sell cookies for bitcoins lol   

[EvilPanda]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

In the US - possible. In Europe there are still countries where minimal wage is about 5k$/year! I happen to live in one of those, so I guess 25k/year would allow you to live like a king there. I also stopped living with my parents when I was 18 and I'm telling you 1mil can be a shit load of money. I personally know people that earn less than 3$/h

[501]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

In the US - possible. In Europe there are still countries where minimal wage is about 5k$/year! I happen to live in one of those, so I guess 25k/year would allow you to live like a king there. I also stopped living with my parents when I was 18 and I'm telling you 1mil can be a shit load of money. I personally know people that earn less than 3$/h

Where do you live?

$25k in the US basically allows you to live in poverty. You can work as a McDonald's cashier and make a little under 25k. To live a "comfortable" middle-class life requires about $70k a year, assuming 0 inflation.

[johnyj]

One million dollar is not enough for a retirement, but one million dollar worth of bitcoin is totally a different story

[EvilPanda]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

In the US - possible. In Europe there are still countries where minimal wage is about 5k$/year! I happen to live in one of those, so I guess 25k/year would allow you to live like a king there. I also stopped living with my parents when I was 18 and I'm telling you 1mil can be a shit load of money. I personally know people that earn less than 3$/h

Where do you live?

$25k in the US basically allows you to live in poverty. You can work as a McDonald's cashier and make a little under 25k. To live a "comfortable" middle-class life requires about $70k a year, assuming 0 inflation.

In Poland, but all countries of the Warsaw Pact have similar poverty problems. Minimal monthly net wage here is around 350$, minimal pension 250$. In my country the president earns around $70k a year (!). And to top all that we have 23% VAT so every single product is much more expensive than in the US.

[malumeze86]

I have a lot of millionths of BTC.  Just not quite 1,250,000,000 of them, yet....

 

[btcprice]

I mined them in 2011 and got them from my shops.

I also tried day trading and had my ass handed to me in June or so.  I lost a few hundred Bitcoin then in the various bear traps.  I learnt a lot of respect for the people that can make day-trading work.  Even if its all down to luck, they have a lot of guts to do it.

I sold 500 BTC for $119.99 and I used the fiat to buy a nice car: http://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/rx/rx-450h/  In real terms, it cost me less than $2000.  I don't want a yacht - the car is plenty reward for a fun investment in something I believe in.

I still have about 1900 BTC.  

I believe Bitcoin is still ludicrously under-priced.  Myself and a friend bought a KNC miner on ebay.de on Thursday and are looking to buy more.  I won't sell again until the price gets over £1000 which is $1600 and then I will sell exactly 1000.

This is what I was looking for. Glad to see you treated yourself to something tangible instead of just watching the prices go up and down.

[kireinaha]

Hey all you bitcoin millionaires! *chirp* *chirp*

Guess they`re not hanging out here.

[tvbcof]

...
I sold 500 BTC for $119.99 and I used the fiat to buy a nice car: http://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/rx/rx-450h/  In real terms, it cost me less than $2000.
...

Looks like a modernized version of the Ford LTD that my grandfather had.

[justusranvier]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

You've successfully proved that one million dollars is not enough to live comfortably in the USA.

If you've got that much, however, you are in no way confined to living in the most expensive police state in the world.

[600watt]

I own 10 bitcoins and oh boy let me tell you... it feels great to be a millionaire at age 25

you will be one with 30, just wait. (and don´t sell)

[beetcoin]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

You've successfully proved that one million dollars is not enough to live comfortably in the USA.

If you've got that much, however, you are in no way confined to living in the most expensive police state in the world.

word.. but it's not that easy to pick up and leave when you have family, friends, or possibly a wife/husband and kids.

[maurya78]

Fat chance of drawing any honest responses on this thread

[Mondy]

I dont think bitionaires will bother telling us about their financial state.

Just like saying: Fiat Usd millionaires tell us your story. lol

[El Dude]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

interest rate in offshore banks are 5% , if you put a 1 million , you get 50 000 clean . Your telling me you can't live of $50 000 a year ?

[wachtwoord]

He is right that $1M isn't a lot. 0.6% (that is 6 in every 1000 people or 29M people) of the WORLD populace (this includes poor stricken regions where a lot can't even eat) has a net worth of $1M or more (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-02/its-1-world-who-owns-what-223-trillion-global-wealth).

[fuggedit]

Wow, you guys are truly inspirations. I think if all you entrepenuerial guys could teach the rest of us a bit we could all make bitcoin the next big thing. I know I am a converter of people at my college. When I tell people in my class I bought a few at 90 and now they are 900, they are excited enough to ask me all about them and how to invest. Most of my professors actually moreso....

[Johnny Bitcoinseed]

Just trying to help.  Don't gloss over the hit of taxes and inflation.  Tales of guaranteed 4, 5, and 10% interest are often just that. And you could lose it all. As others have mentioned, sitting on a million dollars invites all sorts of unwanted attention: .gov LOVES to confiscate in one way or another.

Many of you do not know the full brunt of .gov confiscation of wealth.  When you work for low wages you actually get more than you pay in (goods and services such as roads, fire protection etc).  HOWEVER, after a certain level of income you will see that you are hemorrhaging gads of money into government coffers - in effect supporting everyone else.  If you are into socialism now, you won't be when the fruits of your labor and intelligent investing are stripped away from you at the point of a gun and given to other people who did not earn it.

I maintain that getting your first million is actually the easy part.  It's holding onto it in such a way that you can live free on it without having to work -  that's hard.

Of course, if YOU got your hands on a mil your experience would be different.  Of course.

[zeetubes]

Anyone who is already a bitcoin millionaire probably has a few technical smarts, not to mention some decent sized balls not to have sold through the amazing ups and downs. That sort of person would probably not retire, but instead start up a business enhancing the bitcoin infrastructure. Why waste all that knowledge? And there are so many opportunities to improve what is out there now.

OTOH if you have broad enough hobbies, it is quite possible to retire on a mil and there are many great and very cheap places where the weather, utilities, medical systems and lifestyle etc are just fantastic. For $50-80K or even less, you can buy a nice condo in four such countries and spend a few months each year in different places and rent them out the rest of the time.

Great thread btw.

[Hawker]

Just trying to help.  Don't gloss over the hit of taxes and inflation.  Tales of guaranteed 4, 5, and 10% interest are often just that. And you could lose it all. As others have mentioned, sitting on a million dollars invites all sorts of unwanted attention: .gov LOVES to confiscate in one way or another.

Many of you do not know the full brunt of .gov confiscation of wealth.  When you work for low wages you actually get more than you pay in (goods and services such as roads, fire protection etc).  HOWEVER, after a certain level of income you will see that you are hemorrhaging gads of money into government coffers - in effect supporting everyone else.  If you are into socialism now, you won't be when the fruits of your labor and intelligent investing are stripped away from you at the point of a gun and given to other people who did not earn it.

I maintain that getting your first million is actually the easy part.  It's holding onto it in such a way that you can live free on it without having to work -  that's hard.

Of course, if YOU got your hands on a mil your experience would be different.  Of course.

That is not correct.  If you are blessed enough to live in a well run country, the higher your earnings more value you get from the educated workforce, the legal system and all the other good stuff that comes from being in a good place.  That's why so many of the rich have bases in New York and London.

[data]

While a million dollars might not be enough to retire, it certainly makes life a lot more pleasant. Absolutely low risk investments will get you about 20k each year in addition to what you are normally earning; a good spread might as well give you 40-50. That is about what I make right now as a PhD student. Alternatively, get out of the rent game and buy yourself a nice house, keep the rest.

[2_Thumbs_Up]

One million is more than enough to retire. Average return on stocks has historically been ~10% before inflation. Put your money in an index fund and withdraw 3-4% each year and you got 30-40k to live on, and some pretty good margins in case the market goes really wrong. Most likely, you will still have enough left after expenses to see your capital grow.

Math:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

[hashstash]

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

[tvbcof]

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

My understanding is that it is a misnomer to say flatly 20% and that the rate is based on one's 'earned income' level.  The Wikipedia page I pointed to earlier seems to describe the same.  It seems to indicate that the rate can be much lower if one has no job or other source of 'qualifying' income.

Accd to Wikipedia, the additional percentage over $200k is new-ish and associated with Obamacare.  While I dis-like Obamacare and would rather see a single-payer system or at least a public option, I do like that they are getting at least some money out of people who engineered and exploit the long term capital gains loophole.  It would be ironic if I myself got 'burnt', but I can only a complain so much.

We might end up in a funny scenario where I pay quite a large amount of money for Obamacare, but do not receive benefits because I disagree with it on philosophical grounds and don't wish my money to go towards making the parasitic and lobbyist heavy health care industry and corrupt politicians even more rich.

[Hawker]

One million is more than enough to retire. Average return on stocks has historically been ~10% before inflation. Put your money in an index fund and withdraw 3-4% each year and you got 30-40k to live on, and some pretty good margins in case the market goes really wrong. Most likely, you will still have enough left after expenses to see your capital grow.

Math:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

Its worth checking what the average payout to investors since 1990 has been.  Its a lot lower than you think...

[2_Thumbs_Up]

One million is more than enough to retire. Average return on stocks has historically been ~10% before inflation. Put your money in an index fund and withdraw 3-4% each year and you got 30-40k to live on, and some pretty good margins in case the market goes really wrong. Most likely, you will still have enough left after expenses to see your capital grow.

Math:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/

Its worth checking what the average payout to investors since 1990 has been.  Its a lot lower than you think...

You can cherry-pick any time period to prove whatever you want. But past performance does not determine future results. So the question then becomes which period will best represent the future. Unless you have a crystal ball I'll go with the biggest data set availible of 100+ years. That includes the great depression and still averages a return of almost 10% yearly.

Besides, it's not like the time period you chose is absolutely horrible. The S&P500 has still yielded a gain of 4.3 times your principal since Jan 1990. That is an average of 7+% yearly, so even during this historically bad period you could have cashed out 3-4%, lived on that and earn money over time in the process. I'm being conservative when I tell you 1 million is enough to retire.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5Egspc+interactive#symbol=%5Egspc;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

[600watt]

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

move to germany while holding on to your coins for 12 months. overhere NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX in bitcoin gains if you hold longer than 12 months. you save 200 k $. after a few months, move back...

http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/


speaking of future bitcoin millionaires: here is the party you shouldn´t miss:

https://btc1k.com/

[BittBurger]

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

move to germany while holding on to your coins for 12 months. overhere NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX in bitcoin gains if you hold longer than 12 months. you save 200 k $. after a few months, move back...

http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/


speaking of future bitcoin millionaires: here is the party you shouldn´t miss:

https://btc1k.com/

I sent you a PM on this but ill ask publicly too in case anyone else with info can comment.  Can one just hop on a plane to Germany, get a crappy little apartment (or even stay in a hotel), and cash out all their bitcoins free of capital gains tax?  Don't you have to be a citizen, and open a Bank account?   And can you really withdraw hundreds of thousands of dollars without the german bank asking questions, blocking it, accusing you of money laundering, or simply rejecting it?  These matters are usually a lot more complex than that.  And when you go back home, how exactly do you bring hundreds of thousands of dollars with you?   

[wachtwoord]

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

move to germany while holding on to your coins for 12 months. overhere NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX in bitcoin gains if you hold longer than 12 months. you save 200 k $. after a few months, move back...

http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/


speaking of future bitcoin millionaires: here is the party you shouldn´t miss:

https://btc1k.com/

I sent you a PM on this but ill ask publicly too in case anyone else with info can comment.  Can one just hop on a plane to Germany, get a crappy little apartment (or even stay in a hotel), and cash out all their bitcoins free of capital gains tax?  Don't you have to be a citizen, and open a Bank account?   And can you really withdraw hundreds of thousands of dollars without the german bank asking questions, blocking it, accusing you of money laundering, or simply rejecting it?  These matters are usually a lot more complex than that.  And when you go back home, how exactly do you bring hundreds of thousands of dollars with you?   

I'd say you'd at least need a residence permit.

[600watt]

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

move to germany while holding on to your coins for 12 months. overhere NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX in bitcoin gains if you hold longer than 12 months. you save 200 k $. after a few months, move back...

http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/


speaking of future bitcoin millionaires: here is the party you shouldn´t miss:

https://btc1k.com/

I sent you a PM on this but ill ask publicly too in case anyone else with info can comment.  Can one just hop on a plane to Germany, get a crappy little apartment (or even stay in a hotel), and cash out all their bitcoins free of capital gains tax?  Don't you have to be a citizen, and open a Bank account?   And can you really withdraw hundreds of thousands of dollars without the german bank asking questions, blocking it, accusing you of money laundering, or simply rejecting it?  These matters are usually a lot more complex than that.  And when you go back home, how exactly do you bring hundreds of thousands of dollars with you?   

pm sent.

residency is obligatory i think. easy for u.s.americans to establish here in germany. of course there will be questions by the local authorities, but since it perfectly legal. choose a bitcoin friendly bank such as fidor bank. they have contracts with exchanges like bitcoin.de or kraken.

[bitcoinpsftp]

Nope, 1 million is pocket change....  OH, and if anyone wants to feel generous, I could use a million bucks.  Just pm me, I'll even travel to pick up the money.

[sgk]

I don't know about USA; maybe a million dollars are not enough to retire there. But I can retire comfortably here in India with just 200 BTC.

Let me explain.

Consider the price of a Bitcoin going up to 1000 dollars in near future. That would give me $200,000. With current exchange rate (1 $ = 62 INR), it gives me 1,24,00,000 INR. Cutting down 30% tax, I will end up having around 87,00,000 INR. I can spend 700k of them right now which is enough to buy a car. I will put 50,00,000 in a bank. Believe me or not, the banks give 9% interest per year. So I'll receive 45k INR per MONTH just by sitting and doing nothing, which is how much I currently make by doing my job (and it is considered a good salary here at the  age of 30). The rest 30,00,000 I can invest in real-estate. If you know where to invest, you can easily double your money in 4-5 years here. I have my own house, so I don't have to worry about house-buying expense.

With 45k INR per month, you can have a fairly easy life in urban India. We're not talking about buying a yacht or flying different parts of world every now and then. But you can rent a good house (if you don't have your own), eat what you want, pay your bills & your kids' education, have a maid for house chores, and take your kids for a trip to different parts of India during their vacations. The returns on my real-estate investments will allow me to adjust for inflation.

So basically with 200 BTC, I retired at the age of 30 for the rest of my life. Now I if I want, I can still work for whatever job gives me joy of working.

So there you go. I have a full-proof plan. Now I just need 200 BTC. Donations are welcome at 12LEhtP1Ty9hwMDkoHJ97DkbCXHCENpdzH

[blacksails]

I don't know about USA; maybe a million dollars are not enough to retire there. But I can retire comfortably here in India with just 200 BTC.

Let me explain.

Consider the price of a Bitcoin going up to 1000 dollars in near future. That would give me $200,000. With current exchange rate (1 $ = 62 INR), it gives me 1,24,00,000 INR. Cutting down 30% tax, I will end up having around 87,00,000 INR. I can spend 700k of them right now which is enough to buy a car. I will put 50,00,000 in a bank. Believe me or not, the banks give 9% interest per year. So I'll receive 45k INR per MONTH just by sitting and doing nothing, which is how much I currently make by doing my job (and it is considered a good salary here at the  age of 30). The rest 30,00,000 I can invest in real-estate. If you know where to invest, you can easily double your money in 4-5 years here. I have my own house, so I don't have to worry about house-buying expense.

With 45k INR per month, you can have a fairly easy life in urban India. We're not talking about buying a yacht or flying different parts of world every now and then. But you can rent a good house (if you don't have your own), eat what you want, pay your bills & your kids' education, have a maid for house chores, and take your kids for a trip to different parts of India during their vacations. The returns on my real-estate investments will allow me to adjust for inflation.

So basically with 200 BTC, I retired at the age of 30 for the rest of my life. Now I if I want, I can still work for whatever job gives me joy of working.

So there you go. I have a full-proof plan. Now I just need 200 BTC. Donations are welcome at 12LEhtP1Ty9hwMDkoHJ97DkbCXHCENpdzH

Yeah, that's the small problem, you need 200 BTC first!
But oh well, I could live in India when I become a bitcoin-milionare!

[btcprice]

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

move to germany while holding on to your coins for 12 months. overhere NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX in bitcoin gains if you hold longer than 12 months. you save 200 k $. after a few months, move back...

http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/


speaking of future bitcoin millionaires: here is the party you shouldn´t miss:

https://btc1k.com/

I sent you a PM on this but ill ask publicly too in case anyone else with info can comment.  Can one just hop on a plane to Germany, get a crappy little apartment (or even stay in a hotel), and cash out all their bitcoins free of capital gains tax?  Don't you have to be a citizen, and open a Bank account?   And can you really withdraw hundreds of thousands of dollars without the german bank asking questions, blocking it, accusing you of money laundering, or simply rejecting it?  These matters are usually a lot more complex than that.  And when you go back home, how exactly do you bring hundreds of thousands of dollars with you?   

pm sent.

residency is obligatory i think. easy for u.s.americans to establish here in germany. of course there will be questions by the local authorities, but since it perfectly legal. choose a bitcoin friendly bank such as fidor bank. they have contracts with exchanges like bitcoin.de or kraken.

I would love to live in Germany for a few months. My brother lived there for awhile and loved it. I am of German heritage mostly so it would be good for me to explore my roots.

I tried to get dual American/German citizenship become of my German heritage and found out one has to be either first or second generation in order to get residency there which I am not.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Have you done anything special or extravagant with your money?

Sure have! I kept my three wallets on InstaWallet totally 1,123+ BTC (probably really 1,132+ BTC), and to this day have yet heard a peep as to what the status is with them, even resubmitting two of the bigger claims, with the smaller claim having multiply claims on it. But, since davout is a mod here, and Boussac released the police report on the same day it was filed, I'm sure my ~$1,335,760 USD is secured, seeing that, according to the "block chain", InstaWallet is still in control of over $2M USD.

Bruno Kucinskas

[BitchicksHusband]

Why do people dream of retiring and being "set for life" anyway. Its a pretty boring way to live.

Because I would rather do the programming projects in my head and not have to worry about making money.  Instead, right now, I have to solve other people's problems that I really don't care about and I have to work with narcissistic jerks who care more about building up some imaginary kingdom at work that doesn't matter instead of serving the client's needs.

That's why.

[BitchicksHusband]

yeah you could hold them for a year and pay only 15%.

This is thus far the most tax-optimal strategy I've seen.

If you make less than $70,000 joint ($36,000 single?) other than your bitcoins then you can pay 0% capital gains.  So make sure that you hold them for at least a year.

[btcprice]

By the way, if you held your Bitcoins longer than a year, in the US they should qualify as a capital asset and therefore you would be subject only to the capital gains tax, which is 20% a year plus some additional percentage (<5) if over $200k.

move to germany while holding on to your coins for 12 months. overhere NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX in bitcoin gains if you hold longer than 12 months. you save 200 k $. after a few months, move back...

http://www.coindesk.com/german-government-relieves-capital-gains-tax-on-bitcoin-positions/


speaking of future bitcoin millionaires: here is the party you shouldn´t miss:

https://btc1k.com/

I sent you a PM on this but ill ask publicly too in case anyone else with info can comment.  Can one just hop on a plane to Germany, get a crappy little apartment (or even stay in a hotel), and cash out all their bitcoins free of capital gains tax?  Don't you have to be a citizen, and open a Bank account?   And can you really withdraw hundreds of thousands of dollars without the german bank asking questions, blocking it, accusing you of money laundering, or simply rejecting it?  These matters are usually a lot more complex than that.  And when you go back home, how exactly do you bring hundreds of thousands of dollars with you?   

pm sent.

residency is obligatory i think. easy for u.s.americans to establish here in germany. of course there will be questions by the local authorities, but since it perfectly legal. choose a bitcoin friendly bank such as fidor bank. they have contracts with exchanges like bitcoin.de or kraken.

I would love to live in Germany for a few months. My brother lived there for awhile and loved it. I am of German heritage mostly so it would be good for me to explore my roots.

I tried to get dual American/German citizenship become of my German heritage and found out one has to be either first or second generation in order to get residency there which I am not.

If you want to avoid the taxes I believe you have to give up your US citizenship because you are still taxed as an American citizen no matter where you live.  The theory is that you are still protected by the US government and you can go into an embassy anywhere in the world as a citizen.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/04/news/citizenship-us-tax/

Now that I remember, I don't think you have to go to those extremes to be tax free. I believe the US government releases any tax liability if you spend at least 10 months of the year working overseas.

[tvbcof]

yeah you could hold them for a year and pay only 15%.

This is thus far the most tax-optimal strategy I've seen.

If you make less than $70,000 joint ($36,000 single?) other than your bitcoins then you can pay 0% capital gains.  So make sure that you hold them for at least a year.

Doesn't seem to be sinking in.  As they say, 'you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.'  -shrug-

To the guy who just replied as I was writing this (Ah, my old friend Holliday.)  See the wikipedia article on long term capital gains in the U.S., and also a document put together by someone running http://www.bitcointax.info' (who deserves a tip one of these days.)  In particular, note when the tax rate is 0%.  My CPA assures me that capital gains do not 'back-feed' and become earned income.

As always, though, seek qualified tax advice.  For my part, I will also be putting aside enough money to pay a significant tax bill should it come up as a result of different interpretations about what qualifies as LTCG half way through the year or something.  That's just the way I roll.  I'm not planning to throw away a good thing as happened to many of my fellow temporarily rich friends in the dotcom bubble.

 edit - fee -> feed and recognized my buddy.

[tvbcof]

My CPA assures me that capital gains do not 'back-feed' and become earned income.

This is tricky.

From what I've read, capital gains are stacked on top of your normal income, so they will not push your regular income into a higher bracket.

But... let's say your regular income is $4000 short of the amount needed to put you in a 25% tax bracket (thus 15% tax on capital gains). If you have $10,000 in capital gains, $4000 of that will be taxed at 0% and the $6000 that puts you into the next bracket will be taxed at 15%. Your regular income is still taxed at 15%. Is that what your CPA told you?

Typical disclaimer that this is not tax advice and one should seek professional tax advice, blah blah blah.

This does NOT seem to be the message I was getting in my case.

It is critically important the my Bitcoin speculation is not associated with any form of business but is rather just a private individual adventure but I forgot the exact technical term used.  If the profits are associated with a business things get very ugly very quickly.

As always, standard disclaimer, get professional tax help and some idiot on a forum does not qualify.

[btcprice]

My CPA assures me that capital gains do not 'back-feed' and become earned income.

This is tricky.

From what I've read, capital gains are stacked on top of your normal income, so they will not push your regular income into a higher bracket.

But... let's say your regular income is $4000 short of the amount needed to put you in a 25% tax bracket (thus 15% tax on capital gains). If you have $10,000 in capital gains, $4000 of that will be taxed at 0% and the $6000 that puts you into the next bracket will be taxed at 15%. Your regular income is still taxed at 15%. Is that what your CPA told you?

Typical disclaimer that this is not tax advice and one should seek professional tax advice, blah blah blah.

This does NOT seem to be the message I was getting in my case.

It is critically important the my Bitcoin speculation is not associated with any form of business but is rather just a private individual adventure but I forgot the exact technical term used.  If the profits are associated with a business things get very ugly very quickly.

As always, standard disclaimer, get professional tax help and some idiot on a forum does not qualify.

That begs the next question, at what point should someone seek the advice of a tax professional? If you've made $10k I would think not.

The tricky part of this is that everyone's situation is different and everyone would have a different point at which they go to a CPA.

[balanghai]

If you would just treat BTC as savings, then IRS wouldn't that big of a problem. But if you start withdrawing huge lump sum. It would ring all the bells and brings the spotlight to you.

[joshv06]

I'm 21, I made $10,000 from selling 2x BFL Singles I bought (I was within the first month). That's about the most I've made at one time. It felt good XD.

At one point I had 1000BTC back in 2011. I would be a BTC millionare.

Funny thing is that I tried to get so many people into BTC but no one wanted to invest/make GPU rigs. They kept telling me BTC was a scam, blah blah blah. Then when it hit the news, everyone came back to me wanting to know more info. Too bad.

[tvbcof]

yeah you could hold them for a year and pay only 15%.

This is thus far the most tax-optimal strategy I've seen.

If you make less than $70,000 joint ($36,000 single?) other than your bitcoins then you can pay 0% capital gains.  So make sure that you hold them for at least a year.

I notice that the most recent Forbes article steps around mentioning the long term capital gains rate (0%) in the lower two brackets:

  http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2013/12/03/the-tricky-business-of-taxing-bitcoin/

Gee, I wonder why?  What scum.

[GigaCoin]

Why do people dream of retiring and being "set for life" anyway. Its a pretty boring way to live.

completely agree, i'll always work even after 65 i plan to work till the end. However it doesn't mean a 9-5 year round kind of scenario i'm thinking more like work 7 months, 5 months holiday

[Mondy]

Well it all started in 2009 when i started bitcoin up...

[shadowninjax]

I wish I was one of them to tell you  a story   ,but sadly I am a bit late to the party. Still, trying my best to earn and invest some. Its inspiring to see other people's stories posted here. You'v been quite lucky guys.

[tvbcof]

My CPA assures me that capital gains do not 'back-feed' and become earned income.

This is tricky.

From what I've read, capital gains are stacked on top of your normal income, so they will not push your regular income into a higher bracket.

But... let's say your regular income is $4000 short of the amount needed to put you in a 25% tax bracket (thus 15% tax on capital gains). If you have $10,000 in capital gains, $4000 of that will be taxed at 0% and the $6000 that puts you into the next bracket will be taxed at 15%. Your regular income is still taxed at 15%. Is that what your CPA told you?

Typical disclaimer that this is not tax advice and one should seek professional tax advice, blah blah blah.

This does NOT seem to be the message I was getting in my case.

It is critically important the my Bitcoin speculation is not associated with any form of business but is rather just a private individual adventure but I forgot the exact technical term used.  If the profits are associated with a business things get very ugly very quickly.

As always, standard disclaimer, get professional tax help and some idiot on a forum does not qualify.

As a follow-up:

My CPA's current read is that the long term capital gains DO 'back-feed' into ones income and push them into a higher bracket where the 0% rate does not apply.  She says that the verbiage has been changed slightly this year or last, and it is still a bit nebulous.

Also, I neglected to think much about my state tax.  It's 9% across the board and they don't pay any attention to the long term capital gains nonsense.

So, I'm looking at either 24% or 34% of my sales going to taxes.  It's still less by percentage than your average working stiff and less than I paid when I was one.  This is especially the case when one blows all their income on trinkets which are significantly taxed in most states, so I'm not really complaining all that much.

Had I not been pretty conservative in my financial planning when I took some BTC profits I very well could be looking at a situation where I had to sell at today's (hopefully) shitty prices.  Even so, my CPA didn't do me any favors by changing her interpretation.  The initial assurtion was a strong factor in my selling regime, and I would have massaged what in retrospect was recent peak prices more rather than waiting until 2014 to start.

Now that more people have doubtlessly been talking to their CPA's, I'd be most interested in whether other's have a different interpretation about whether capital gains impact one's tax bracket.

[serenitys]

I KNOW yall aren't so naive as to think fiat millionaires are being good little boys and girls and reporting their real wealth to the IRS like they're all "supposed" to.  Get real. The more wealth they build, earn or steal, the more creative ways they find to AVOID giving the IRS jack shit if they can help it.

The rest of the non millionaire world gets the abuse and shake down because they don't have the wealth to avoid it. Bitcoin gives them that opportunity...and they won't be paying the IRS there either...and the IRS knows it...and if the IRS doesn't know it, it will soon enough.

Then it'll just be too late,

[Bit_Happy]

...
I sold 500 BTC for $119.99 and I used the fiat to buy a nice car: http://www.lexus.co.uk/car-models/rx/rx-450h/  In real terms, it cost me less than $2000.
...

Looks like a modernized version of the Ford LTD that my grandfather had.

When I can afford an old station wagon, I will finally be set for life.   

[Beliathon]

Why do people dream of retiring and being "set for life" anyway. Its a pretty boring way to live.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you've never experienced the wage-slavery that is a shitty minimum wage (or near-minimum) job in Amerikkka.

Or if you have, you've long since forgotten how soul-destroying it was.

[tvbcof]

I KNOW yall aren't so naive as to think fiat millionaires are being good little boys and girls and reporting their real wealth to the IRS like they're all "supposed" to.  Get real. The more wealth they build, earn or steal, the more creative ways they find to AVOID giving the IRS jack shit if they can help it.

The rest of the non millionaire world gets the abuse and shake down because they don't have the wealth to avoid it. Bitcoin gives them that opportunity...and they won't be paying the IRS there either...and the IRS knows it...and if the IRS doesn't know it, it will soon enough.

Then it'll just be too late,

I'm betting that the ascii string 'bitcoin' will trigger extra scrutiny over the next few years.  Also that the linkages which might tie one to that revenue stream will be analyzed with extra scrutiny.

I also don't think that even large Bitcoin players have had the time to arrange for the same kinds of graft that the typical mainstream financial types leverage.

For these reasons, it would not surprise me if a fair number of high powered Bitcoiners actually do decide to dot all of their 'i's, etc.  Most people who have money didn't get that way or don't stay in that category by making silly mistakes.  Bitcoiners who play their hand right may well end up with enduring wealth.  Those who don't may very well find themselves body-slammed as a result of their 'creativity'.

I actually hope that Bitcoiners do get away with 'cheating' since a good part of my tax dollars are going to be supporting things I vehemently oppose (e.g., killing villagers with drones, ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, etc.)  For my part, I don't play around with stuff I don't understand, and I don't feel like putting in the effort required to game the tax system significantly.  I'll grit my teeth and pay my taxes.  If interpretations change, I'll file for a refund (which I've done in the past successfully.)  Through what is mainly luck I've had some good timings over the course of my experience with Bitcoin.  I'll just pretend that my timing fell a little shorter than it did.  I've still made a bundle on Bitcoin, and the potential exists to make a bunch more.

[Polycoin]

The age or full name won't be released, but someone made 300million off BTC last month. His name rhymes with Dark Barpeles.

Who is that?

[BitCoinDream]

The age or full name won't be released, but someone made 300million off BTC last month. His name rhymes with Dark Barpeles.

Who is that?

And he's gonna spend half of his wealth on his lawyers ...right ? + He'll live rest of his life with the fear of being murdered any time.

Is that a millionaire lifestyle ?

[tvbcof]

The age or full name won't be released, but someone made 300million off BTC last month. His name rhymes with Dark Barpeles.

Who is that?

And he's gonna spend half of his wealth on his lawyers ...right ? + He'll live rest of his life with the fear of being murdered any time.

Is that a millionaire lifestyle ?

It would take balls of steal to lift that much money out of a pool of victims which almost certainly include some pretty rough players.  I sense that Karpeles is indeed kind of a detached air-head, but nobody is that stupid.  I'm betting that there is more to the story than we currently think we know.

OTOH, nobody has yet been subject to much more than a few weeks of abuse on trolltalk even when they lift millions.  Maybe even half a billion is safe to pocket?  Time will tell I guess.

[Bit_Happy]

Why do people dream of retiring and being "set for life" anyway. Its a pretty boring way to live.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you've never experienced the wage-slavery that is a shitty minimum wage (or near-minimum) job in Amerikkka.

Or if you have, you've long since forgotten how soul-destroying it was.

Some crappy jobs are OK short-term.
It can depend on who you work with and what you do.

[serenitys]

Punchline?

Looks like bitcoin accomplishes one thing quite well: exposure, ironically.

While it protects via anonymity, it exposes through protest. The ones who seriously want to squelch it do not have human interest in mind, they are anti freedom, and anti progress...and pro corruption and greed. To not promote a free market currency is to show your colors as a vile corrupt psychopath...so we'll all know who to steer clear of.

It also exposes the weak spined cowards who are too lazy and inept to just fucking adapt and take responsibility for governing SELF.

And those who cannot adapt go the way of the dinosaurs.

You don't have to believe in evolution or natural selection but it won't save you from being a victim of it...

[jonald_fyookball]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

In the US - possible. In Europe there are still countries where minimal wage is about 5k$/year! I happen to live in one of those, so I guess 25k/year would allow you to live like a king there. I also stopped living with my parents when I was 18 and I'm telling you 1mil can be a shit load of money. I personally know people that earn less than 3$/h

Where do you live?

$25k in the US basically allows you to live in poverty. You can work as a McDonald's cashier and make a little under 25k. To live a "comfortable" middle-class life requires about $70k a year, assuming 0 inflation.

yeah...it really sucks...  being a millionaire in the usa
doesnt mean you're rich. AT ALL!

$70k a year used to be good money...

what a joke this fiat money is with its inflation.

Thank god for Bitcoin!

[jonald_fyookball]

i just read this... if its true, its really sad.

http://www.infowars.com/9-of-the-top-10-occupations-in-america-pay-an-average-wage-of-less-than-35000-a-year/

[bryant.coleman]

i just read this... if its true, its really sad.

http://www.infowars.com/9-of-the-top-10-occupations-in-america-pay-an-average-wage-of-less-than-35000-a-year/

I am seeing more and more people doing two-jobs at a time, working up to 16 hours a day. Sad.  

[jonald_fyookball]

i just read this... if its true, its really sad.

http://www.infowars.com/9-of-the-top-10-occupations-in-america-pay-an-average-wage-of-less-than-35000-a-year/

I am seeing more and more people doing two-jobs at a time, working up to 16 hours a day. Sad.  

We poor millionaires feel broke but these people are straight up shits creek with no paddle.
This is what people have to realize. The US dollar, federal reserve, banksters and all their cronies
Have totally fucked over everyone .. If you're not outraged you are definitely not paying attention.
Of course I'm preaching to the choir here ....sigh

[louis1584]

Why do people dream of retiring and being "set for life" anyway. Its a pretty boring way to live.

Right now I work and I have to work when the boss says so. If I was retired and set for life , I could do what I want when I want

[Cryptogirl82]

I own 10 bitcoins and oh boy let me tell you... it feels great to be a millionaire at age 25

Retard at work!

[Joe_Bauers]

i just read this... if its true, its really sad.

http://www.infowars.com/9-of-the-top-10-occupations-in-america-pay-an-average-wage-of-less-than-35000-a-year/

The greatest thing that the slaveholders ever did was convince people that slavery no longer exists.

[BitCoinDream]

What do u mean by millionaire here ? A million USD, a million JPY, a million INR or what ?

[dreamspark]

What do u mean by millionaire here ? A million USD, a million JPY, a million INR or what ?

A million satoshis 

[Onar]

Kids, a million dollars really isn't all that much anymore.  I know it appears to be alot if you are making minimum wage and living in your parents basement.  But if you are out in the world and paying your own way, your own insurances etc (because you are living on your million dollars without having a job), you may not even be able to live to retirement age on that much money, much less continue on into your golden years with a reasonable level of finances.

Just sayin...do the math and tell me I am wrong...

Say you are 25 years old and will retire at 65.  One million dollars is only $25,000 per year (not counting a hit of about 38% in taxes).  Then at 65 you will have about zero dollars remaining.

Don't tell me about making wild interest on your money.  Interest rates are near zero.  Inflation is going to further erode the value of your money.

One million dollars is not nearly enough to get you through life comfortably.

interest rate in offshore banks are 5% , if you put a 1 million , you get 50 000 clean . Your telling me you can't live of $50 000 a year ?

If you are taking out the interest rent each year in cash, the million stays as a million. Each year the million gets less worth regards to theincrease of living cost each year. In 30 years that million maybe is worth 50 000 usd in todays value. Its inflation. Rich people are worried with that the cash shrinks if they do not do anything, thats why rich people invests in start ups, trading and more. If not they do that they will in the future not be rich anymore.ITS A ENDLESS GAME.

[Joe_Bauers]

On the other hand, 1BTC will always = 1BTC