NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Come-from-Beyond]

VOTING

Sorry if this has gone off topic – but I had an idea and just had to write it down...

This is Voting Proposal that tries to balance stake with number of participants – its not 1 account 1 vote but hopefully the blend in here will make it difficult to screw the vote with either 1 account holding lots of NXT or lots of account holding little NXT.

1. A vote is proposed

• default majority is 51%,
• default participation is 51% of all 30 day active accounts with min 1 NXT BEFORE the vote was proposed.
• default duration is 24hours and this is minimum.

2. The properties of the vote is that the proposer can propose are

• the required majority level (weighted NXT)
• participation level (max 100%, minimum 10% of active accounts)
• the duration (hours, min 24)

2. The vote is submitted to the network.
4. The voters can weight their vote with their non-refundable NXT Fee min 1 NXT
5. The voters also confirm or reject the majority & participation proposals if they are different from the default, this component is NOT weighted by the NXT Fee and always requires 51% of the participating voters to agree.
6. The vote completes once the participation level is met and 51% of those voting have agreed with that participation level.
7. If the vote does not achieve  51% agreement of proposed participation and achieve that participation then the voting transaction fails and everything rolls back.
8. If the vote does achieve 51% agreement of proposed participation AND that participation is achieved then the vote is successful and the transaction completes.
9. People need to be able to query the vote, see the current stats and increase their FEE if they so wish.
10. The vote result is the number of VOTEs for/against weighted by their respective NXT Fees.
11. The Total Vote Fees are then divided equally between the forger of that block and the participating voters.

So you can buy votes but not by buying NXT and just holding it, you need to be active and put some of your stake behind your vote – if everyone feels equally strong and puts 100 NXT in their vote then you will get most of your stake back but if you want so badly to win you put 1,000,000 NXT in and everyone put in 1 NXT then you may well win but then your stake is divided up amongst the voters.

Yes some people will vote with 1 NXT hoping to get more than 1 NXT in Fees I guess and will try to use mutiple accounts but whatever system is implemented there will always be some who try to screw it.

this is interesting ....good job....Cfb could it this be implemented?

Yes, if there are no flaws. But original voting is based on other algo.

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[ZeroTheGreat]

2) For Freezing accounts we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 75% VOTES -- 750  Million Nxt....if we get 749,000,000 ...no freeze.


3) To destroy we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 90% VOTES -- 900 Million Nxt[/b][/color]

In my point of view it'd not exist at all.

[ZeroTheGreat]

However, if account 4M has been inactive for 1 year, or a fluid amount of time commensurate with the duration of NXT's lifespan, it should get approved if account 4M has not even had the chance to vote...

?! How that connects with Asset Exchange's needs? It's simply dictate: what u'd with you money to stay warm. Don't like idea.

[ZeroTheGreat]

Freeze: 75% minimum threshold
Destroy: 90% minimum threshold

Let's vote if we r going to implement this at all. And only after that decide what numbers will be there (if need them).

Who exactly need such potential now and for what? In decentalized system?! Why it apeeared in first place and core devs are supporting idea? If 90%+ seems impossible to collect, why just stay away of "90%+ can destroy any part of other 10%"?

[trefifund]

2) For Freezing accounts we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 75% VOTES -- 750  Million Nxt....if we get 749,000,000 ...no freeze.


3) To destroy we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 90% VOTES -- 900 Million Nxt[/b][/color]

In my point of view it'd not exist at all.

   
I second that!

[chanc3r]

2) For Freezing accounts we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 75% VOTES -- 750  Million Nxt....if we get 749,000,000 ...no freeze.


3) To destroy we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 90% VOTES -- 900 Million Nxt[/b][/color]

In my point of view it'd not exist at all.

Discussing an issue like this is like trying to decide how to give the people a vote on whether to launch a nuclear weapon - its simply impractical for any voting system to resolve an issue like this fairly - either don't have the weapons or if you have to have them put them under the control of a decision maker.

I'm with others - I think these options like nuclear weapons should not exist.

Finally if you drop this stuff and concentrate on how to get voting implemented for more day to day stuff then you can come back to this later if you have to.

[ZeroTheGreat]

So, voting based on the number of assets is the most stable kind of democracy.

So Nxt gonna be over-goverment system with CENTER of ethics/mindsets of 51%+, 75%+, 90%+, whatever? For what 

[chanc3r]

VOTING

this is interesting ....good job....Cfb could it this be implemented?

Yes, if there are no flaws. But original voting is based on other algo.

Thanks

There will be flaws - no system is perfect!

[Damelon]

2) For Freezing accounts we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 75% VOTES -- 750  Million Nxt....if we get 749,000,000 ...no freeze.


3) To destroy we need MINIMUM THRESHOLD OF 90% VOTES -- 900 Million Nxt[/b][/color]

In my point of view it'd not exist at all.

Discussing an issue like this is like trying to decide how to give the people a vote on whether to launch a nuclear weapon.

I agree with this.
Democracy is a good thing, but can be taken to ridiculous and dangerous lengths. It has the seeds for it's own destruction in it, in that not all members of a community will act in their own best interests, due to a variety of reasons. (One of the main one's being "Let's see what will happen if I push this GREAT RED BUTTON" )

[landomata]

Finally if you drop this stuff and concentrate on how to get voting implemented for more day to day stuff then you can come back to this later if you have to.

I'm with you 100%

[laowai80]

So, voting based on the number of assets is the most stable kind of democracy.

So Nxt gonna be over-goverment system with CENTER of ethics/mindsets of 51%+, 75%+, 90%+, whatever? For what 

Sorry, I don't understand you, please paraphrase.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Who exactly need such potential now and for what? In decentalized system?! Why it apeeared in first place and core devs are supporting idea? If 90%+ seems impossible to collect, why just stay away of "90%+ can destroy any part of other 10%"?

Don't see where core devs support this idea.

[pinarello]

Stuck at Genesis with new client!?!   

Did all the usual deleting *.nxt, F5, etc., but still stuck. 

U deleted the blockchain?!

Well, let's start from the genesis. I had much more money at that time.

How can I print the blockhain? 


Pin

[Tompa]

Please include bigger list of peers in new versions.
I tried with 2 peers that were in web.xml and after 15 minutes of waiting nothing happened. IT IS NOT ENOUGH!

It is already too much to ask new and less experienced people to create their own start.bat, now they need to first locate the web.xml and then go to http://nxtra.org/nodes/ and copy somewhere the list into the xml file. Just to see it working?

Downloading of the blockchain is not a problem since all other cryptos demand that if you use vanilla client and it is not too big - 10mb.

I know I would have hard time myself if I just now stumbled upon NXT and I can only imagine how cumbersome it would be to explain all this first steps to my brother via Skype i.e.


Are we now have to have another youtube video that will explain how to put peers into web.xml?


 

[ZeroTheGreat]

Potentially using the Voting System for other issues concerning NXT is not related to its function within the NXT Asset Exchange.

I'm talking abou Global Voting only. No benefits I see so far, but HUGE risks.

[xibeijan]

0,4,8
Haven't active peers

Everyone should use their own set of well-known peers! Put them into web.xml.

How do we obtain such a list?

Transparent forging: how can it predict who will forge next?  What's the formula?

[landomata]

Potentially using the Voting System for other issues concerning NXT is not related to its function within the NXT Asset Exchange.

I'm talking abou Global Voting only. No benefits I see so far, but HUGE risks.

GOOD NOW LETS FOCUS ON IMPLEMENTING LOCAL VOTING ASAP

[ZeroTheGreat]

I'm with others - I think these options like nuclear weapons should not exist.

That's I'm trying to say. Why create nuclear wepon and THEN decide who and how can handle this? We can just stay away of creation. Stronger network is (coins~people), more difficult to anyone potential creator will be to create it in futute.

[pandaisftw]

You guys need to keep in mind that voting in NXT is not the same as voting in a democratic government. It is more like a shareholder voting in a company. Someone who has more invested into NXT should obviously have more say in which direction it should go, right? If you skew the system in favor of smaller holders, what will eventually happen is that the smaller holders will someday vote to destroy (or redistribute) the larger stakeholder's coins for their own benefit. This will end with everyone trying to own the least amount of NXT per account possible, thus a downward spiral. With 1 NXT = 1 vote, larger stakeholders have very little incentive to sabotage the system (as they would collectively have to own 51+% of all coins), thus any negative action against NXT would actually cause them more harm than benefit. So I firmly believe that the equal voting system (no weird scaling system, which will be exploited by someone to create millions of accounts) is fundamentally the only correct way to implement the VS.

[mcjavar]

fan art

i like the left one better. Maybe I should get back to BTC...