Need to switch to mBTC soon

[Lauda]

Eventually something like this has to be done.

[Rampion]

I think this kind of talk is ridiculous. You want to switch to mBTC just so the perception of value changes to the point that the public will be ok with buying again?  The client will switch to BTC/mBTC/uBTC for personal convenience, not to fool people into a perception of lower valued units.

Perception matters. I've been telling some people I know about bitcoin, and the $800/unit price holds them back mentally. They are reluctant to buy, not because they don't like the idea of the technology or think it has potential, but only because of the high price per unit. They compare it in their minds to the prices of stocks they buy. Nobody wants to buy a fractional share of something. The average small investor might be happy to buy 250 mBTC of bitcoin, but would not bother to buy 0.25 BTC because it feels like a ridiculously small and meaningless amount.

Freebird, your point is valid from a certain point of view, because perception matters indeed - but you need to realize that this talk has been going on sice we first broke $10. At $10, a lot of people said that "internet magic money" that costed $10 "felt too expensive", as we just hit a psychological barrier - so the denomination should change to allow further growth. Same thing happened at $100, just use the seatch function on this forum: you will find many many posts as yours written when we hit $100, and those posts said that $100 was definitely a psychological barrier and "nobody" was going to want to buy a virtual coin for 100 hard earned dollars.

Well.... What happened then?

While I think that the psychological factor has its importance, I'm pretty sure that you are overestimating that importance. Denomination really needs to be something based on convenience - people will naturally switch to mBTC because it will be much more convenient to price items in mBTC... But there's really no need for exchanges to list the price in mBTC, that "psychological barrier" is something that noobs feel when they bought in recently and saw how fast the price rised, so they think that the denomination need to change for the people to keep buying... And that's just a fallacy that has been refuted by history.

[cr1776]

I agree.  My wife's aunt said the same thing today.  "I'll buy when it is back to $600".  I said people said that at 200, 100, 10 and 1. 

Its still a need.

A solution is needed.

Anyone who claims this isn't an issue has no non-BTC friends or family.

Anyone who has non BTC friends or family that aren't loaded, has heard someone say "I cant buy in now.  Its too late.  Its too expensive".

[silverfuture]

I agree.  My wife's aunt said the same thing today.

Its still a need.

A solution is needed.

Anyone who claims this isn't an issue has no non-BTC friends or family.

Anyone who has non BTC friends or family that aren't loaded, has heard someone say "I cant buy in now.  Its too late.  Its too expensive".

Maybe these people shouldn't be buying BTC? 

[cr1776]

I agree.  With all the press, they ask though!  :-)

I agree.  My wife's aunt said the same thing today.

Its still a need.

A solution is needed.

Anyone who claims this isn't an issue has no non-BTC friends or family.

Anyone who has non BTC friends or family that aren't loaded, has heard someone say "I cant buy in now.  Its too late.  Its too expensive".

Maybe these people shouldn't be buying BTC? 

[Rampion]

I agree.  My wife's aunt said the same thing today.

Its still a need.

A solution is needed.

Anyone who claims this isn't an issue has no non-BTC friends or family.

Anyone who has non BTC friends or family that aren't loaded, has heard someone say "I cant buy in now.  Its too late.  Its too expensive".

LOL

this has been said forever.

BTC went up SO quick since its inception, that it always has been "too expensive" for everybody that does not understand that it definitely has the potential to go to +$100k per coin.

In 2012 and early-Jan 2013, $12 was "too expensive" because its price was $2 a few months before

In Summer 2013, when the bubble popped, $100 was "too expensive" because the price was $12 just a few months before

Now, $800 is "too expensive" because the price was $130 a few weeks ago.

WAKE UP, the "problem" is how fast it grows, "expensive" is a RELATIVE and not an absolute term. Your family thinks its TOO EXPENSIVE because they know it went up many orders of magnitude very quickly, and thus they automatically assume now its "expensive". Switching to mBTC won't fix that. To fix that you need to educate them so they understand what BTC could mean in the future.

[RodeoX]

The price is irrelevant. But try telling that to normal people.

We could also just move the decimal point and create 21 billion bitcoins. It would not change the value of anyones holdings, but again, try telling that to people.

[Apraksin]

Freebird, your point is valid from a certain point of view, because perception matters indeed - but you need to realize that this talk has been going on sice we first broke $10. At $10, a lot of people said that "internet magic money" that costed $10 "felt too expensive", as we just hit a psychological barrier - so the denomination should change to allow further growth. Same thing happened at $100, just use the seatch function on this forum: you will find many many posts as yours written when we hit $100, and those posts said that $100 was definitely a psychological barrier and "nobody" was going to want to buy a virtual coin for 100 hard earned dollars.

I disagree. While 10 or 100 bucks seemed expensive for "funny internet money", most people could still easily afford to buy 1 btc if they wanted to without qualms. 800-1000 $ for 1 btc is something altogether different. It's a solid chunk of most peoples savings or monthly salary, and these people will have a hard time psychologically justifying buying one unit of internet money they mostly don't understand at such a price.

If we want regular Joe to start using btc as internet currency we need to switch to mbtc as soon as possible.

[mootinator]

WAKE UP, the "problem" is how fast it grows, "expensive" is a RELATIVE and not an absolute term. Your family thinks its TOO EXPENSIVE because they know it went up many orders of magnitude very quickly, and thus they automatically assume now its "expensive". Switching to mBTC won't fix that. To fix that you need to educate them so they understand what BTC could mean in the future.

Indeed, I tried to explain what's happening in this space a few weeks ago and what he took away from the conversation was "So you got in at the bottom. Good for you." The price has more than doubled again since then. Frustrating.

[Peter R]

The psychology behind "expensive bitcoins" works the other way too: many people (especially already wealthy people) will want to own "one whole bitcoin"; however, since only be 21 million bitcoins will ever be available, what happens when 22 million people all want to achieve this same goal? 

One could argue that people discovering bitcoin over the next 12 months will stretch their purchases, striving to own at least 1 bitcoin.

One could also argue that vast majority of early adopters will *never* part with their last "whole bitcoin," thereby further increasing scarcity.

[XBBlade]

In another topic this discussion is on as well, but then about using uBTC which makes more sense! Link to topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=346356.0;topicseen

If you are not sure what uBTC mBTC etc is:
http://bitcoinpro.wordpress.com/2013/11/24/bitcoin-values-and-numbers/

[Rampion]

Freebird, your point is valid from a certain point of view, because perception matters indeed - but you need to realize that this talk has been going on sice we first broke $10. At $10, a lot of people said that "internet magic money" that costed $10 "felt too expensive", as we just hit a psychological barrier - so the denomination should change to allow further growth. Same thing happened at $100, just use the seatch function on this forum: you will find many many posts as yours written when we hit $100, and those posts said that $100 was definitely a psychological barrier and "nobody" was going to want to buy a virtual coin for 100 hard earned dollars.

I disagree. While 10 or 100 bucks seemed expensive for "funny internet money", most people could still easily afford to buy 1 btc if they wanted to without qualms. 800-1000 $ for 1 btc is something altogether different. It's a solid chunk of most peoples savings or monthly salary, and these people will have a hard time psychologically justifying buying one unit of internet money they mostly don't understand at such a price.

If we want regular Joe to start using btc as internet currency we need to switch to mbtc as soon as possible.

Nonsense. Gold is "expensive" too, but still people buys it and use the denomination it best suits them.

I was one of the "we need exchanges to switch to mBTC" crew when I entered this game and I saw the rise from single digits to $266. Then I realized it's nonsense. People will naturally move to mBTC when it's convenient to price things in mBTC. The recurrent topic "we need to swith to mBTC" (really, search these forums: it's recurrent indeed) it's usually started by newcomers, and the only reasoning behind this demand is "because people will feel the coins are cheaper and they will buy more".

Having gone through that I can now say that it is a sentiment linked to having witnessed the price raising very quickly one or more orders of magnitude. We just cannot  accept that people will keep buying these "expensive" coins that grew in price so fast and so much...

But they will. Believe me.

[Georgio]

I agree. And here is why.
This change should be done. Sooner is better because for people who understand Bitcoin it does not matter if it is BTC, mBTC uBTC or whatever. BUT for the average user it matters. Recently a lot of people jumped in, because it was affordable. But now when the price is approaching $1000 it looks too expensive for most of the people and they are really saying "no, it is too late, it is too expensive". Of course the growth will not stop but it will slow down. All I am saying is lets use the attention now, lets use the moment and change to mBTC.
This change will affect only the new comers. It will not affect the current BTC community it will not affect the big investors, but will increase the number of "normal" people willing to buy.

Why?
Lets say I have $200. I have never heard before about Bitcoin, but I am interested in it. So I am starting a research on the Internet and shortly after i discover bitstamp.net for example, where on the top of my screen is written 1 mBTC = $1 and 1 BTC = $1000 Next thing I will think is GREAT I can buy 200 mBTC for my $200. A lot of other people will buy and in short period of time the price will go to $2000 for BTC respectively $2 for mBTC then I have already $400 in Bitcoins. I will be very happy of my investment and I will tell this to all my friends. They will also buy different amounts of mBTC.

What do you think. Sounds close to reality?

[Apraksin]

Nonsense. Gold is "expensive" too, but still people buys it and use the denomination it best suits them.

I was one of the "we need exchanges to switch to mBTC" crew when I entered this game and I saw the rise from single digits to $266. Then I realized it's nonsense. People will naturally move to mBTC when it's convenient to price things in mBTC. The recurrent topic "we need to swith to mBTC" (really, search these forums: it's recurrent indeed) it's usually started by newcomers, and the only reasoning behind this demand is "because people will feel the coins are cheaper and they will buy more".

Having gone through that I can now say that it is a sentiment linked to having witnessed the price raising very quickly one or more orders of magnitude. We just cannot  accept that people will keep buying these "expensive" coins that grew in price so fast and so much...

But they will. Believe me.

Grandma understands gold, she does not understand bitcoin under any circumstances. My parents does not understand bitcoin, neither does the overwhelming majority of my friends age 25 to 35. Everybody understands gold, they are used to gold.

Now if we want bitcoin to be the digital equivalent to gold we can easily continue the current denominations with my blessings, no point in splitting it. If we want bitcoin to be a currency we must suit it so that people can understand it as something recognisable, and paying for a commodity or service with 0.002507 btc is wery far from recognisable. Neither is investing money in 0.3081 btc seen as attractive. They want recognisable and easy numbers, and they want to feel that they got good value for their bucks, and if so 1000 just seems better than 1, it's pure pricing psychology. I recognise as well as you that ultimately it is nonsense, but most of human nature is pure nonsense.

I can agree that it was premature to go to mbtc when the price was hovering around 100-150 $ though, but the price level where it's at now makes it a lot more difficult for the little guys to consider buying one btc, where he would possibly feel much better with him self if he gets 1000 mbtc for his 800 $. Even though it's nonsense.

[Georgio]

I agree fully with the above post from Apraksin. Also anybody with a little knowledge of marketing would also agree. Bitcoin should be market now in the right way to succeed!
mBTC is also better from merchants point of view to setup prices fro products and services. People will start to buy more things with Bitcoins.

[cr1776]

I know.  I said the same thing to her - people said it at $1, $5, $10, $50, $100, $266, $500, and now.  ;-) 

I read it here when they were saying it! 

I agree.  My wife's aunt said the same thing today.

Its still a need.

A solution is needed.

Anyone who claims this isn't an issue has no non-BTC friends or family.

Anyone who has non BTC friends or family that aren't loaded, has heard someone say "I cant buy in now.  Its too late.  Its too expensive".

LOL

this has been said forever.

BTC went up SO quick since its inception, that it always has been "too expensive" for everybody that does not understand that it definitely has the potential to go to +$100k per coin.

In 2012 and early-Jan 2013, $12 was "too expensive" because its price was $2 a few months before

In Summer 2013, when the bubble popped, $100 was "too expensive" because the price was $12 just a few months before

Now, $800 is "too expensive" because the price was $130 a few weeks ago.

WAKE UP, the "problem" is how fast it grows, "expensive" is a RELATIVE and not an absolute term. Your family thinks its TOO EXPENSIVE because they know it went up many orders of magnitude very quickly, and thus they automatically assume now its "expensive". Switching to mBTC won't fix that. To fix that you need to educate them so they understand what BTC could mean in the future.

[allthingsluxury]

This is a tactic many stocks adopt.

[pening]

It's a non-issue. Most "regular people" who can't be bothered to take the time to figure out how things work aren't going to feel safe jumping on the bandwagon until corporate investors get involved.

Clearly those people don't care.

see you BRK.A and raise you BRK.B

[mootinator]

It's a non-issue. Most "regular people" who can't be bothered to take the time to figure out how things work aren't going to feel safe jumping on the bandwagon until corporate investors get involved.

Clearly those people don't care.

see you BRK.A and raise you BRK.B

Doesn't diminish my point though. Not using mBTC doesn't cause a liquidity problem, which is the main reason for a stock split. And professional investors won't be fooled by it.

[bitcoinpsftp]

There's no liquidity problem, but the general person thinking "hmmmm... lets some some bitcoins... WHAT 940 dollars each WTF???  I can't afford that".  On the other hand, they see it as 94 cents a millicoin, they'll maybe put in 100 bucks.  Would help spread bitcoins out more.