Merit is a proof of brain concept

[friends1980]

This thread is a proof of arrogance. Equating command of the English language to mental ability is an extremely elitist viewpoint, not to mention completely incorrect. Merit is an excellent addition to the forum, but it shouldn't be used to justify your narrow-minded world view.

I think most of these "elitists" are intelligent enough to recognize the quality in the content of a post, even if it is written in poor or imperfect English. To how many posts in poor English have you given Merit, MadZ?

Besides, the main language of this forum is English. Everyone is free to start his own forum in his own language - even in poor English (last time I checked, bitcointalkpoorenglish.com was still available).

No-one will do this because obviously... there won't be any airdrops or bounties over there.

[friends1980]

@Madz

I don't see why you highlight my points. To be brutally frank, If you post in incomprehensible English on an English board, and complain because the majority of readers don't think it is brilliant, then either you have a limited brain, or you aren't using it.

And I agree those people deserve to be called idiots. What you (and a lot of other prominent members) fail to realize is that there are plenty of members who make quality posts in their native language on local boards, yet receive no merit because each board only has one or two merit sources. They have a right to come to Meta and complain about the system when it actually does discriminate against them. In light of that, it's laughable to dismiss every complaint by saying the user is simply too dumb to make posts with comprehensible English, which is what you're doing. The issue isn't that simple.

There are translation bounties for other languages and they are actually quite well paid.

edit: you think the translation bounties are discriminating towards English-speaking people, because there won't be any bounty for them?

[Jet Cash]

And I agree those people deserve to be called idiots. What you (and a lot of other prominent members) fail to realize is that there are plenty of members who make quality posts in their native language on local boards, yet receive no merit because each board only has one or two merit sources. They have a right to come to Meta and complain about the system when it actually does discriminate against them. In light of that, you can't simply dismiss every complaint about merit by saying the user is simply too dumb to make posts with comprehensible English. The issue isn't that simple.

I agree with that, but one of the disadvantages in having English as a first language is that there is no obvious additional language to learn. Russian or Chinese would be extremely useful in the current turbulent world, but it's a bit late for me to learn either of those languages.

btw, I can understand the need to post in Meta, but why post rubbish in Beginners or discussion? Also, why not try to improve your English skills if you want to make a career of posting here?

[MadZ]

And I agree those people deserve to be called idiots. What you (and a lot of other prominent members) fail to realize is that there are plenty of members who make quality posts in their native language on local boards, yet receive no merit because each board only has one or two merit sources. They have a right to come to Meta and complain about the system when it actually does discriminate against them. In light of that, you can't simply dismiss every complaint about merit by saying the user is simply too dumb to make posts with comprehensible English. The issue isn't that simple.

I agree with that, but one of the disadvantages in having English as a first language is that there is no obvious additional language to learn. Russian or Chinese would be extremely useful in the current turbulent world, but it's a bit late for me to learn either of those languages.

btw, I can understand the need to post in Meta, but why post rubbish in Beginners or discussion? Also, why not try to improve your English skills if you want to make a career of posting here?

Oh, I have no sympathy for people who join the forums only to make money. I think it is great people passionate about crypto have the opportunity to earn some revenue on the side, but that shouldn't be your only motive for posting. The thing is, those people wouldn't be making quality posts in their native language either.

I think there are valid criticisms of the system as it stands in relation to contributing members of local boards. It is prohibitively difficult for quality members and spammers alike to rank up if they don't speak English, despite the fact that it is possible to differentiate between the two. For a forum dedicated to discussing a currency that is supposedly stateless, it is saddening that such a large percentage of the community is de-facto rejected.

[suchmoon]

Where do you see that equation?

Mainly from the following quotes:

Merit is a proof of brain

Merit is a reflection of the mental ability of the poster

If you don't have the ability or intelligence to construct useful posts

I don't see how those sentences can be construed otherwise?

Yes, there is a certain level of mental ability required to earn merits. That does not equate "command of the English language to mental ability", which is the claim you were making. As Jet Cash already stated - posting incomprehensible English on an English board is stupid, posting incomprehensible French on a French board is stupid, etc, and that's how I interpreted those statements when I read them. I'm not gonna post gibberish on a French board and whine about not getting merits so I'm really struggling to see how the opposite makes sense.

It's not wrong to expect forum posts to be coherent in the target language. The only mental ability needed here is to understand one's limitations and not post Google-translated garbage.

Like I said in my first post, I completely agree that merit is a great addition to the forum. Spammers and Google-translators are a huge problem, and merit does a good job at combating them. That being said, I disagree with the connotation that low merit = lower intelligence, which the OP is pretty explicit about (see examples above).

Merit is essentially predicated on one's command of the English language, since only a small fraction of merit sources are actually active in each foreign language board. Should users not be allowed to rank up just because their native language isn't English? Members like Jet Cash act like the only people who complain about merit are the spammers you mention above, when in reality this isn't the case.

Take for instance this thread, a prime example of your average "the merit system sucks" thread. Notice how the OP actually makes the vast majority of his posts in the French sub-forum, not English boards. Reading through them, they look to be of pretty decent quality, however, he has only received 20 merits for the 400 posts he has made since the system was added (all from the French sub-forum).

I feel like a lot of the more prominent members are ingrained in the mindset that low merit = third world shitposter. As the example above shows, this isn't necessarily the case. All I'm trying to point out is that there are numerous reasons why a positively contributing member of this community might have low merit, and it is understandable that such a person would feel frustrated by the system.

You're bringing up some good points but that's a whole different issue. Local board users can apply to become merit sources. Theymos has mentioned that he's open to having more local sources. I don't have numbers to support or oppose your claim that "only a small fraction of merit sources are actually active in each foreign language board". If you have the numbers - please share. Keeping in mind the number of posters/posts in each board.

[digaran]

Were you provoked by my post JC? is this you, showing your brain now? lol. I do agree with you even though this is in your blood as an English man to feel superior. I even sent my "letter of resignation" to theymos without pasting a link and accidentally clicked on send.

Sorry for my bad english, my tongue was busy elsewhere. it's not like you don't already know that English is not my first language. I just have to keep mentioning it.

Merit ideas and encourage the good efforts of members with somewhat bad command of English.

[coinlocket$]

~

You could literally have as many Hero accounts as you wanted just by logging in once a day to claim a giveaway and 1.4 years later you'd have an arsenal of Hero accounts farmed

Imagine now for a second that all Hero accounts on the forum will be declassified with a starting merit of 10. How many of them can even reach the 100 merit for Full member Rank without abusing the system?
Imagine the whine.

[abiiiii]

And I agree those people deserve to be called idiots. What you (and a lot of other prominent members) fail to realize is that there are plenty of members who make quality posts in their native language on local boards, yet receive no merit because each board only has one or two merit sources. They have a right to come to Meta and complain about the system when it actually does discriminate against them. In light of that, it's laughable to dismiss every complaint by saying the user is simply too dumb to make posts with comprehensible English, which is what you're doing. The issue isn't that simple.

Them guys keep missing our point because they do not know the struggle at all. Wish you guys would go back to being a newbie or jr member and let us watch you rank up. Show us that doing our thing and creating helpful posts will give us profit.

[suchmoon]

Them guys keep missing our point because they do not know the struggle at all. Wish you guys would go back to being a newbie or jr member and let us watch you rank up. Show us that doing our thing and creating helpful posts will give us profit.

If you're posting here for "profit" and you're having a hard time - that's great, this means the merit system is already working.

[criz2fer]

I've read so many threads and posts about merit, and I've come to realise that the real problem with the merit system is that it rewards meritorious posters.

Since these people really create admirable post that needed to be merited then why not limited the number of merits to be given to high rankers or restrict them to recieve Merit.

I think these time we could enumerate these people because we already have data's.

Post count is just a simple count of the number of posts made, regardless of content or benefit to forum members. Activity is a limiter to control the rewards for over-active posters. Trust is a comment on trading morality, and the honesty of a member. Merit is a reflection of the mental ability of the poster, and his willingness to follow community guidelines on posting. If you don't have the ability or intelligence to construct useful posts, then of course you will see merit as discriminating against you. The sensible member will endeavour to develop his abilities to take advantage of the verdant pastures that surround the cesspit.

It isn't too difficult to improve your posting skills. The first task is to read the rules, and to read the thread before you post in it. The second task is to ensure that your post can be understood by your readers. This means you should check for typing errors and misspellings before you hit post. If English isn't your first language, then try to ensure that your sentence structure follows the rules of English, and isn't just a word translation of your local language.

Ability of a member could develop in time but if members could follow great posters as a basis of posting, ideas will be just at ease.

For other members, try bookmarking the latest post of these guys and you will see great topics to develop your skills and other hot topics in the forum. Communicating with them could gain knowledge more faster rather than reading a whole bunch of shit topics and reading all the comments from top to bottom.

[motienvolam]

All people have to learn till the day their breaths gone away. Lots of things to learn, English, Blockchain technology - both its technical aspects and its services, the forum rules -which will change over time, merit system in particular.
Fortunately, in the forum, there are lots of available, free sources to learn. Forum members can not blame on anyone else for their lack of knowledge, skills, experience. They have their own time and should spend part of it to learn, gradually.
To sum up, I don't see reason to complain about merit system, which is - of course - unfair system (never found truly, completely fair ones in our lives). Let's think of its postive impacts on the forum and help to maintain such amazing effects over time.

[maxreish]

Yes that's right, this is similar to schooling, at school if you improve your study you will have a high grades, here when you make improvements and everything you say is appropriate and help others you will get some or high merit, at school grade here the forum merit will be given to you, so we should be smart here.

[yojodojo21]

We have different perspective to accept the fact why merit was implemented even thou there is a reason behind it. In reality the more attractive you are the more merit you will gain, and the clearer the statement you explain and contribute then you'll receive merit.  But the "merit thing" seems to be a racial discrimination because we have this "language barrier". Sorry for my words.

[tumis]

I've read so many threads and posts about merit, and I've come to realise that the real problem with the merit system is that it rewards meritorious posters. Post count is just a simple count of the number of posts made, regardless of content or benefit to forum members. Activity is a limiter to control the rewards for over-active posters. Trust is a comment on trading morality, and the honesty of a member. Merit is a reflection of the mental ability of the poster, and his willingness to follow community guidelines on posting. If you don't have the ability or intelligence to construct useful posts, then of course you will see merit as discriminating against you. The sensible member will endeavour to develop his abilities to take advantage of the verdant pastures that surround the cesspit.

It isn't too difficult to improve your posting skills. The first task is to read the rules, and to read the thread before you post in it. The second task is to ensure that your post can be understood by your readers. This means you should check for typing errors and misspellings before you hit post. If English isn't your first language, then try to ensure that your sentence structure follows the rules of English, and isn't just a word translation of your local language.

Welcome

You are very right about what you write.

But take into consideration the fact that the size of local communities varies.
And the mentality of each nationality also varies.

This picture illustrates it very well. In Poland, with the sharing of merit, it is weak. Compare what is going on in the community in Russia, for example, and you'll understand what I'm talking about. Merit - and the merit is not equal. That is it.








Merit is good," I admit. But why not make it better??



Quoting my post in my native language sub-forum. :

"
Inspiration for admins in the forum ?
Or maybe additionally (by the way) a new ico with a really big brand and a massacre community, which is bitcointalk ? = EASY WIN ?
Don't you think so?

Idea:

I think you could do something on a blockchain :-) For example:

All actions - actions - reactions of users on the forum - are stored in the blockchain. Each user can Rate and this rating is not displayed to anyone.
Later, e.g. once a week the computer system counts and uses an appropriate algorithm based on proportions and relationships such as:
How many reactions did the fasting arouse?
How many answers per hour/day?
What is the engagement in the thread?
How much has been given in the subject matter of the author how many others, what is the ratio between the dependencies of these people (whether they know each other or not, what are their ranks - e.g. preferably when NEVER before have they become CONFIRMED (to avoid "cronyism") and between such users who have the appropriate STAGE and lack of multi-accounts (including proxy, vpn and many other patents - KYC ;- hah))?

etc, etc

Alternatively, only at the very end of the human factor (trusted people who could sometimes react to something / correct / change) .

I think it was good to do such a system, but it would be good to think about it ;-
And by the way, the great project and the new ICO.
Well, gentlemen with such a potential and opportunity - lets do it "

[hilariousetc]

ou could literally have as many Hero accounts as you wanted just by logging in once a day to claim a giveaway and 1.4 years later you'd have an arsenal of Hero accounts farmed to do what you want with.

And I'm so happy those days are over.  Let the noob shitposters bitch and moan about the system, but they'll either adapt to it by upping their game or give up.  Either outcome is a win for the forum as a whole.

Bitcointalk really turned to shit last year.

No, it wasn't just last year that it turned to shit.  One of the first things I noticed even before I registered here in 2015 was that a lot of writing sounded like it came out of the Bizarro-Superman planet, and also that no one replied to any post other than the OP in a thread.  It was obvious very early on that there was less discussion going on than people churning out posts without reading anything in turn.  There are a lot of threads that ask a basic question, and if you read the replies you'll see the same answer duplicated dozens of times--and it's not necessary.  That's been going on for years.

Exactly. bitcointalk has been circling the drain for years and sig spam has been a problem as long as I've been here but the spam today doesn't anywhere near compare to how it was back then and the longer we left it the worse it got until it obviously reached fever pitch. It's a simple fact that the majority of people signing up to this forum are doing so just to earn and they see it purely as money making site. Most of the people here these days probably have little to no actual interest or knowledge of bitcoin and are only here because their friend/schoolmate/auntie/ dog told them they can make easy money here and we can see this in the sort of threads they post in or create. This is why the Off Topic and Politics boards are such a mess because they're often the only boards they can post something about. And then there's the dozens of threads that are created almost every couple of days asking how you heard of bitcoin or bitcointalk and they're filled with the same answers: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3363270.msg35226256#msg35226256

When you're young, can't speak English very well and know little to nothing about bitcoin what are they expected to do? Factor in that they probably have multiple accounts and it's just a recipe for disaster. Something needed to change.

Them guys keep missing our point because they do not know the struggle at all. Wish you guys would go back to being a newbie or jr member and let us watch you rank up. Show us that doing our thing and creating helpful posts will give us profit.

If you're posting here for "profit" and you're having a hard time - that's great, this means the merit system is already working.

The only people who are complaining about this are those who's profit is effected. The merit system doesn't curb anyone's ability to post here but just earn and this is all it's ever been about. As for us going back to Newbie I'm sure most of the higher ranked users in this thread would have no issue in getting the required merit if that happened as we have no issue in making quality contributions. Many of us already have a lot of merit that we don't need but we got it for making great posts. If anyone else made them then they would get the points too, but most people aren't interested in writing anything more than a line or two these days unless they're complaining about something.

[Jet Cash]

I took one look at the post by tumis and put him straight on ignore. I didn't even manage to get to his posted message.
I think that illustrates the point that merit is a proof of brain, or at least thinking before you post. Given my opinion on posting large irrelevant images in threads, a large graphic of the world distribution of something may not be the most sensible thing to include. Especially as this thread has no racial bias, despite the attempts by some members to imply that it has. If someone posts using 漢字 (Chinese han characters), then am I racist if I don't award him with merit? A lot of the pseudo-english posts are almost as incomprehensible to me. The han characters are the oldest most continuously used system of writing in the world, and it has the greatest number of users worldwide. On that basis, we should convert the whole forum to posting using han characters, and then where would you whingers be?

This is a forum where the majority of the boards are English, and communication is by text message. If you aren't bright enough to read text, but need to look at pictures, then YouTube and Steemit have loads of such posts. Good luck on trying to get a picture into a linux or node command line, or an HTML tag.

Here is a post that I've just seen on the beginners board. It's crap like this that we need to block, so that we can have sensible discussions. It isn't racist to try to get rid of this stuff, it's just common sense.

The lack never ends. There is a new lack of time when a need is met. The problem is similar. If a problem is solved then a new problem arises. Bitcoin can be legal in the country or illegal, we will continue to maintain consistency. Bitcoin is illegal but it is used in all countries.

[TMAN]

Imagine the whine.

I would of already been a Hero . there are plenty including JC who are close enough to the goal as well.

I agree with what JC has posted here, anyone taking it the wrong way need to read a few of JC's posts and threads. If local boards do not have enough merit sources then take it up with Theymos directly, don't make out that JC is an elitist as if so most of us that are active in this sub are as well..

[Jet Cash]

Lets equate merits with Bitcoin. I was a bit late in supporting Bitcoin, and I missed the chance to mine coins. I would like to build a Raspberry pi system, and start mining, I think the block reward for me should be 50 Bitcoins, and the difficulty is too high for my poor little raspberry Pi. They should change the whole of the Bitcoin algorithm to enable me to get lots of Bitcoins for a very minimal effort on my part.

All these complaints about the merit system are equivalent to my comment about Bitcoin mining.

[Kim Ji Won]

First off - apologies for starting yet another merit thread, and I'll explain my reason for starting it.
 I try to award merits to encourage members to prepare for this future, but I seem to find more members to ignore, than to award with merit. I've attempted to help posters to improve their communication skills in English, but I have had very limited success with this.

Quite ironic isn't it? All shitposters/spammers blabbering their mouth about the merit system and yet they don't exert even a little effort of improving their posts despite all the tips and tricks that other users who earned a decent amount of merit are sharing.

TMAN's guide is one of the most helpful topics out there and newbie probably ignore this because they are mostly in the Bitcoin Discussion board.

[iillaa]

Proof of effort.


Well it's probably almost impossible to achieve a high rank if you can't speak English or articulate yourself very well. People got used to just being able to rise through the ranks by merely posting whatever generic posts they could be bothered making over time but that was the problem. You could literally have as many Hero accounts as you wanted just by logging in once a day to claim a giveaway and 1.4 years later you'd have an arsenal of Hero accounts farmed to do what you want with. Now this isn't the case. Not only will you have to put effort into your posts they also have to stand out enough to be merited which isn't as easy as it sounds.

hey  then why not make it fair to all of the members of BTT forum and implement a complementary system that  reduce  high rank members merits ( and if accumulated  it will reduce rank ofc )  if they dont get new merit in a certain time     . i mean they are heroes and  full members   it should be easy to get 1 merit  since they have more experience in the forum  

that will for sure expose those fake rank members  that simply take from the forum with no giving back or contribution to make it better