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Author Topic: A Trump + Merkel ban would mean nothing  (Read 167 times)
Reatim
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May 02, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
 #21

If the USA and EEUU (that's basically Merkel at this point) decided to ban Bitcoin, and I mean a full frontal ban, including any trading and possession of Bitcoin, it wouldn't still mean nothing in the long term.

I think it will severely impact the market, as US and EU to an extent is a big market for crypto.

Can these guys increase the total 21 million limit supply? no? exactly, and that is their number 1 weapon, inflation. They can ban all day long, and it wouldn't have an impact on the long term prospects of Bitcoin. It will only serve as a way to weed out weak hands that didn't deserve to hold Bitcoin in the first place. And the ironic thing is, they themselves will buy the dip, and a couple of years later when they have amassed an huge amount at cheap prices, they will legalize it again, making all the noobs FOMO back in.

Governments CAN'T kill Bitcoin, and they CAN'T kill the reasons it is desired. Get this straight and drop the FUD.

Yes, I agree that government can't kill or even stop bitcoin. So short term we might see a big fall, however, long term I think that we can slowly recover. I think investors are mature enough not to be sway though about the FUD spreading around specially about news the US is banning bitcoin.

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May 02, 2018, 09:27:44 PM
 #22

They wouldn't do it as it's a billion dollar economy that is a source of taxes and employment. Banning it in a country where it's already thriving would be like shooting yourself in the knee. You'd have protesters in the streets, less money in the budget, possibly increased migration to countries that support it... It's just not going to happen.
What would it mean if it happened? First of all Merkel doesn't set the EU laws, it would have to go through the parliament, and countries are known not to follow Merkel's opinion.  Just look at the case with the migrants. Some countries didn't accept them even though they were pressured by Merkel and Macron. She would only divide the EU once again.

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May 02, 2018, 09:32:49 PM
 #23

I think it will only help Bitcoin to return on the right way - to become a currency for those, who want to be independent from government regulations, and not just another investment tool as it looks like now.
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May 02, 2018, 09:51:12 PM
 #24

Politicians say much but just a little part of their speech are truth and very small part of their ideas are made. So I do not pay attention on this while there are no real actions.

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May 02, 2018, 10:12:17 PM
 #25

They can't really ban it, just make it more difficult to access I guess?  It's nearly impossible to stop unless there's something they have that I don't know about.  It'd take shutting down the web entirely and that is getting nearly impossible in the coming years as well, so it's pretty much over with.  This is just a death rattle of the previous system struggling against change that it can't stop.

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May 02, 2018, 10:42:52 PM
 #26

Well I wouldn't say it's Trump and Merkel, I would say it's more Trump and Macron, because Merkel is losing power recently, and Trump and Macron are close friends, so they will probably unite forces and will try to make decision together. Anyway, regarding bitcoin, I don't think they will ban it. In fact I don't think any advance and liberal country will ever take a decision like that. Those things work well in countries like China, where its citizens are afraid to take action and to fight for their beliefs. But on liberal countries, governments know they need to keep their population happy, and can't really make drastic decisions like that.

Their best option would be to try to create something "similar" in order to fool the masses (like a digital coin backed by them, and that would offer it's citizens some king of advantage). I don't see how they can do that though, so BTC is here to stay, and they will just try to charge taxes from it. We will likely pay them, because there is not point to give them reason to be dictators, so BTC will continue to grow, but it will be regulated in a way that everyone wins.
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May 03, 2018, 02:15:42 PM
 #27

If the USA and EEUU (that's basically Merkel at this point) decided to ban Bitcoin, and I mean a full frontal ban, including any trading and possession of Bitcoin, it wouldn't still mean nothing in the long term.

Can these guys increase the total 21 million limit supply? no? exactly, and that is their number 1 weapon, inflation. They can ban all day long, and it wouldn't have an impact on the long term prospects of Bitcoin. It will only serve as a way to weed out weak hands that didn't deserve to hold Bitcoin in the first place. And the ironic thing is, they themselves will buy the dip, and a couple of years later when they have amassed an huge amount at cheap prices, they will legalize it again, making all the noobs FOMO back in.

Governments CAN'T kill Bitcoin, and they CAN'T kill the reasons it is desired. Get this straight and drop the FUD.

This is a pretty hype-induced post if you're trying to represent that two of the largest economies in the world banning bitcoin wouldn't tank the price and permanently halt adoption. And to keep with the same language you're using, I am talking a full frontal ban, including any trading and possession of Bitcoin. In a case where possession and trading is illegal, so would working on the code. Improvements and innovation ends, fiat gateways (exchanges) are shut down (because that's far easier to shut down than the network), the price collapses as demand evaporates. What business is going to accept it when it's been outlawed? There'd be no benefit in doing so anymore, putting more nails in the coffin. You may not be able to fully shut down a decentralized network, but we've already seen how vulnerable Bitcoin is to spam attacks, and who is going to continue to use something that barely works anymore? Some random spammers ground the network down to a crawl very recently for months, and you think the government wouldn't be able to clog the network better and longer if they wanted to render it unusable? If you think governments can't kill Bitcoin, you're delusional. What's further is that the post is pointless because it's positing on something that isn't currently a potential development.

FUD is one thing, but mindless posts like this are equally as stupid.

Wrong. Demand will not evaporate, just as demand for many other illegal things can't never evaporate, it will just shake out weak hands temporarily. There will always be demand for Bitcoin, and the supply will continue shrinking no matter what, putting a permanent bullish force on it, no matter what governments have to say about it.
The network has not been vulnerable to spam attacks. All that the attackers have done is losing money, that's all. Demand for Bitcoin went up even with huge fees. The speculative factor is here to stay. I use Bitcoin by holding it, I don't even care about fees, and there are many like me, so we will keep using it even if a government fills the blocks all day. And by filling the blocks, they are attacking themselves in the long term, since they have to either keep allocating capital for the task, or simply print more money. The fundamentals are still in Bitcoin's favor.

There will always be ways for people to obtain Bitcoin, that's not a problem, specially for people with a lot of money.

Overall governments trying to kill Bitcoin will just result in a long term net loss for them, and a long term win for these that hold it.

And remember that Bitcoin has value in the first place precisely because it can exist irrespective of governments considering it legal or illegal. If this wasn't the case, it's value would be 0.

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May 03, 2018, 02:53:02 PM
 #28

That's not true, everyone on here would like to say that people wouldn't be able to enforce it. But you have to understand that people (normal everyday people, not early adopters) aren't going to get involved with something that is illegal, it's going to get them in trouble and regular people who don't NEED bitcoin don't want to risk their lives for a random cause.
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May 03, 2018, 03:17:34 PM
 #29

If the USA and EEUU (that's basically Merkel at this point) decided to ban Bitcoin, and I mean a full frontal ban, including any trading and possession of Bitcoin, it wouldn't still mean nothing in the long term.

Can these guys increase the total 21 million limit supply? no? exactly, and that is their number 1 weapon, inflation. They can ban all day long, and it wouldn't have an impact on the long term prospects of Bitcoin. It will only serve as a way to weed out weak hands that didn't deserve to hold Bitcoin in the first place. And the ironic thing is, they themselves will buy the dip, and a couple of years later when they have amassed an huge amount at cheap prices, they will legalize it again, making all the noobs FOMO back in.

Governments CAN'T kill Bitcoin, and they CAN'T kill the reasons it is desired. Get this straight and drop the FUD.

This is a pretty hype-induced post if you're trying to represent that two of the largest economies in the world banning bitcoin wouldn't tank the price and permanently halt adoption. And to keep with the same language you're using, I am talking a full frontal ban, including any trading and possession of Bitcoin. In a case where possession and trading is illegal, so would working on the code. Improvements and innovation ends, fiat gateways (exchanges) are shut down (because that's far easier to shut down than the network), the price collapses as demand evaporates. What business is going to accept it when it's been outlawed? There'd be no benefit in doing so anymore, putting more nails in the coffin. You may not be able to fully shut down a decentralized network, but we've already seen how vulnerable Bitcoin is to spam attacks, and who is going to continue to use something that barely works anymore? Some random spammers ground the network down to a crawl very recently for months, and you think the government wouldn't be able to clog the network better and longer if they wanted to render it unusable? If you think governments can't kill Bitcoin, you're delusional. What's further is that the post is pointless because it's positing on something that isn't currently a potential development.

FUD is one thing, but mindless posts like this are equally as stupid.

Wrong. Demand will not evaporate, just as demand for many other illegal things can't never evaporate, it will just shake out weak hands temporarily. There will always be demand for Bitcoin, and the supply will continue shrinking no matter what, putting a permanent bullish force on it, no matter what governments have to say about it.
The network has not been vulnerable to spam attacks. All that the attackers have done is losing money, that's all. Demand for Bitcoin went up even with huge fees. The speculative factor is here to stay. I use Bitcoin by holding it, I don't even care about fees, and there are many like me, so we will keep using it even if a government fills the blocks all day. And by filling the blocks, they are attacking themselves in the long term, since they have to either keep allocating capital for the task, or simply print more money. The fundamentals are still in Bitcoin's favor.

There will always be ways for people to obtain Bitcoin, that's not a problem, specially for people with a lot of money.

Overall governments trying to kill Bitcoin will just result in a long term net loss for them, and a long term win for these that hold it.

And remember that Bitcoin has value in the first place precisely because it can exist irrespective of governments considering it legal or illegal. If this wasn't the case, it's value would be 0.

Who's going to go so far to circumvent the law for a coin that can't be used for commerce because it's illegal, can't be freely traded in public, and with which all association is illegal? Sure, demand would just stay constant or even increase after it becomes illegal and people face financial penalties or jail time. You're delusional mate. Bitcoin has a hard enough time getting adopted when it's perfectly legal, how delusional do you have to be to believe it'll be more so if it were completely outlawed? As it is, the only thing it's demanded for right now is get rich quick dreams because people are wealthy enough to speculate on an inherently worthless asset that produces no income and whose only functional utility is promised years down the road in vague and poorly conceived ways. A vast minority of bitcoin is used as a currency or in commerce right now, but sure, that'll all change if it were outlawed.

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The network has not been vulnerable to spam attacks.

Nice alternative fact. I'm sure nobody here remembers the months-long period where fees and transaction times were sky high due to all the spam transactions clogging up the mempool. You pretty much summed up everything wrong with Bitcoin by admitting that you don't use it and are just holding it. The only way you can realize a gain on it is to find someone to sell to higher than what you paid for it, and like I said, if it were illegal, you wouldn't and because people would no longer expect to make a profit from it coupled with the legal repercussions, demand would collapse.
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May 03, 2018, 03:18:30 PM
 #30

Wrong. Demand will not evaporate, just as demand for many other illegal things can't never evaporate, it will just shake out weak hands temporarily. There will always be demand for Bitcoin, and the supply will continue shrinking no matter what, putting a permanent bullish force on it, no matter what governments have to say about it.

The thing about other illegal things is that they're typically only as valuable as they are because logistics artificially constrain the supply. This is where Bitcoin's decentralization works against itself in case of a ban -- because it cannot be effectively stopped and it could easily be masked, it would be way too easy to get, making it even less valuable. There won't be much of a bullish effect no matter what happens to the supply either if demand is zero or close to it. Even if the very few individuals left decided to gobble up all the coins in the aftermath, they might as well be trading play money amongst themselves at that point.

But yeah, all of this is pointless conjecture because, again, a ban of that scale is never going to happen.

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May 03, 2018, 03:20:54 PM
 #31

it is not just about the supply although i agree fully with it.
it is all about the fact that bitcoin is a decentralized currency and what this government or that government says about bitcoin should not matter in first place!

it is obvious that if a government accepts bitcoin with open arms (eg. Japan) the growth of bitcoin will speed up consequently but if the opposite of it happens the growth won't stop, it will just slow down. and the government can not resist revolutions, they eventually have to give in because bitcoin is inevitable so is its adoption.

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May 03, 2018, 03:26:58 PM
 #32

no way back for crypto
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May 05, 2018, 03:22:51 PM
 #33

it is not just about the supply although i agree fully with it.
it is all about the fact that bitcoin is a decentralized currency and what this government or that government says about bitcoin should not matter in first place!

it is obvious that if a government accepts bitcoin with open arms (eg. Japan) the growth of bitcoin will speed up consequently but if the opposite of it happens the growth won't stop, it will just slow down. and the government can not resist revolutions, they eventually have to give in because bitcoin is inevitable so is its adoption.

You can't say that decisions of some government is not important, because everything is connected when it comes to crypto. What I mean is, if one major country like US decide that crypto should be banned, that would probably make chain reaction and some other countries would ban crypto as well. That would have strong impact on crypto, and to be honest who knows what exactly could happen. After all if people can't use bitcoin as an currency (which is main goal of it), and earning extra money becomes to complicated, eventually large number of people would leave crytpo market. I agree that crypto can survive almost everything, and that revolution can only be delayed but not stopped, but decisions of our governments matter. Or at least that is what I think.
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May 05, 2018, 04:22:12 PM
 #34

If the USA and EEUU (that's basically Merkel at this point) decided to ban Bitcoin, and I mean a full frontal ban, including any trading and possession of Bitcoin, it wouldn't still mean nothing in the long term.

Can these guys increase the total 21 million limit supply? no? exactly, and that is their number 1 weapon, inflation. They can ban all day long, and it wouldn't have an impact on the long term prospects of Bitcoin. It will only serve as a way to weed out weak hands that didn't deserve to hold Bitcoin in the first place. And the ironic thing is, they themselves will buy the dip, and a couple of years later when they have amassed an huge amount at cheap prices, they will legalize it again, making all the noobs FOMO back in.

Governments CAN'T kill Bitcoin, and they CAN'T kill the reasons it is desired. Get this straight and drop the FUD.

They can't kill Bitcoin, or rather crypto as a whole, but that doesn't mean they can't make its use and possession meaningless beside the Dark Web. Most people are involved in crypto exclusively for profit opportunities it offers. If it would offer criminal prosecution instead and result in imprisonment (since this is what you likely mean by "a full frontal ban"), people would avoid it like the plague. Needless to say what it would mean to prices if powerful governments like those of US, EU, Russia and China decided to crack down on crypto in earnest. Those would be the dark ages for all of us, though I don't think it ever comes to that.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are not that big yet to give them the jitters.
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