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Author Topic: BTCRobot - Clickbetter - SCAM!  (Read 3784 times)
SciLor
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November 27, 2013, 08:47:32 AM
 #1

I suggest you to not to purchase the bot.

I bought it when BTC was around 200$. I bought around 10BTC to fill it. After 4 weeks I only had 7,8BTC left in my account (if I would have bought btc from my USD in my account). It scams users by only showing your USD. If I would have held the coins, still would have 10BTC...

Reason from the BTCRobot Creators: BTC not always going up: BUT it is currently more going up then down. So the software cannot work...

So I wanted to refund the bot. I did it via clickbetter. (Bought for 1,2 BTC). I paid it via inputs.io (hacked now). I instantly sent them a BTC address for refund on 15th November. Got anything till today.

They are answering very slowly... In a case where time would have been very important.

Me:
Quote
Fri, Nov 15 2013 7:02am
Where will the refund go?
I paid via BitPay over Inputs.io.

1.2652BTC need to go elsewhere because of that
*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX*

Clickbetter:
Code:
Sun, Nov 17 2013 12:14pm
Hi XXXX,

The amount is refunded to your wallet that it was paid with. Since Bitcoins are manually refunded, it may take 2 to 21 days for the same to show up on your account.
-> Refunded manually -> Not transfered yet.

Me:
Quote
Sun, Nov 17 2013 12:27pm
It is impossible to pay it back to that wallet.
The wallet was from the online service inputs.io, which has been hacked!

Please provide me a different solution. This way the funds will be gone!

Clickbetter:
Code:
Mon, Nov 18 2013 12:44pm
Hi xxxxxx,

We have asked our team to look into the same.

Please give us some time to sort it. We will get back to you as soon as the issue is sorted.

Tue, Nov 19 2013 11:29am
Hi XXXXXXX,

A refund is sent the address that the buyer choose when opening a refund request. The refund has already been sent - nothing else we can do.
Refund to address buyer choose -> My account is still on 0BTC

Me:
Quote
Tue, Nov 19 2013 11:42am
Please sent me the transaction, your sender address and the target address. But I think the coins are gone...
I wrote asap that I want to have the money refunded to a different address.

Clickbetter:
Code:
Wed, Nov 20 2013 2:26pm
Hi xxxxx,

We have asked our team to arrange for the details.

We would provide you the same at the earliest.

Me:
Quote
Wed, Nov 20 2013 2:39pm
You said "A refund is sent the address that the buyer chose when opening a refund request."

I never chose the refund method or the refund address!

Clickbetter:
Code:
Thu, Nov 21 2013 11:26am
Hi xxxxxxx,

Our team is investigating the issue. We have asked Bitpay to provide details. We will let you know as soon as we receive them.

Me:
Quote
Mon, Nov 25 2013 3:50pm
Any News?

"A refund is sent the address that the buyer chose when opening a refund request. The refund has already been sent - nothing else we can do."
I never choose a bitcoin account for refund. The only one I provided you see at the top.

You still owe me around 1,2btc or 1000$ I worked hard for.
They are ignoring my question regarding the refunding address or transaction

Clickbetter:
Code:
Wed, Nov 27 2013 3:07am
Hi xxxxxx,

Bitpay has asked us to provide the invoice URL you received so that they can provide any further details.

The funds were refunded to address provided. The funds have left our account and there is nothing further we can do unfortunately.

Please provide us the invoice URL so that we can make Bitpay provide any further details.

BTC: 1DpXtqbpXCxKZFa5edCVftFVEmrk8EWfmH
NMC: NKHZh5tipJnY2jjmbuAS5uLX42VpTgFtwA
LTC: LXGe3isStn3FPqM49xP4grrw4HMeMHLz98
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Sammey
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November 27, 2013, 08:53:43 AM
 #2

Wow.

Karma will make sure they get what's coming, which does nothing for you unfortunately.

eurobitcoin
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November 30, 2013, 05:42:18 PM
 #3

Quote
I bought it when BTC was around 200$. I bought around 10BTC to fill it. After 4 weeks I only had 7,8BTC left in my account (if I would have bought btc from my USD in my account). It scams users by only showing your USD. If I would have held the coins, still would have 10BTC...

The goal of the robot is to grow the USD value of your portfolio, not the amount of your bitcoins. The robot manages the account to make sure it is prevented from rapid BTC price falls.

you need to understand that even if the robot may seem less effective than a simple price increase, as soon as prices stall and fluctuate (as they are certain to do), then you will lose much more than you would with our robot. You might get less profits with our robot than by riding on strong intermediate price rises but atleast you will not blow your accounts or fall into 70% drawdowns with the robot if the prices were to go south.

 You are only looking at one side of this trading story, not thinking about what will happen on the other hand. I hope this is clearer to you now.

You can come to one of the next conferences to talk to us personally and we'll explain better.

As for Bitpay issue, I am unable to comment on them, they process the payments and refunds and if you have issues please refer to their support. We are just Software developers, not payment processors.
eurobitcoin
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November 30, 2013, 05:45:04 PM
 #4

You can also compare the growth of public account

http://members.btcrobot.com/robots/public

Probably it was less profitable during the very strong bullish trend but it was also much safer and protected account from rapid price fluctuations.



Very smooth line!
SciLor
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December 01, 2013, 08:54:11 AM
 #5

As for Bitpay issue, I am unable to comment on them, they process the payments and refunds and if you have issues please refer to their support. We are just Software developers, not payment processors.

You are working together with ClickBetter and BitPay. I am doing business myself. Do my customers trust me, if they get handled like that, if I outsource my Payment procession and they have problems with my payment provider?

BTC: 1DpXtqbpXCxKZFa5edCVftFVEmrk8EWfmH
NMC: NKHZh5tipJnY2jjmbuAS5uLX42VpTgFtwA
LTC: LXGe3isStn3FPqM49xP4grrw4HMeMHLz98
SciLor
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December 01, 2013, 09:01:30 AM
 #6

You can also compare the growth of public account

http://members.btcrobot.com/robots/public

Probably it was less profitable during the very strong bullish trend but it was also much safer and protected account from rapid price fluctuations.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/354/bqqr.png

Very smooth line!

So I show you my calculation that you bot made loss most of the time in your account:

I retrieved my data of your USD from this chart: I calculated it back by counting the pixels.
http://www.scilor.com/BTCRobot/RobotMoney.gif

To get the Bitcoin price I visited BitcoinWisdom and took the close price at 01:00 AM each day on your chart
http://www.scilor.com/BTCRobot/BitcoinWisdomPrice.png

All together in an excel sheet, with back calculation of Bitcoins:
http://www.scilor.com/BTCRobot/BTCRobotCalculation.png

As you can see in the absolute column you always made losses, In absolute you made -28% loss.

BTC: 1DpXtqbpXCxKZFa5edCVftFVEmrk8EWfmH
NMC: NKHZh5tipJnY2jjmbuAS5uLX42VpTgFtwA
LTC: LXGe3isStn3FPqM49xP4grrw4HMeMHLz98
eurobitcoin
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December 01, 2013, 10:32:54 AM
 #7

Quote
You are working together with ClickBetter and BitPay. I am doing business myself. Do my customers trust me, if they get handled like that, if I outsource my Payment procession and they have problems with my payment provider?

You probably never sold the software yourself? The developers work on the product, the payment processor is selling it. Those two parties harly "work together" because the payment processor has THOUSANDS of vendors selling something and all of them work independently.

The processors only provide you with a platform to work on. 

You need to contact processor directly, not us in such case.
SciLor
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December 01, 2013, 10:58:47 AM
 #8

Quote
You are working together with ClickBetter and BitPay. I am doing business myself. Do my customers trust me, if they get handled like that, if I outsource my Payment procession and they have problems with my payment provider?

You probably never sold the software yourself? The developers work on the product, the payment processor is selling it. Those two parties harly "work together" because the payment processor has THOUSANDS of vendors selling something and all of them work independently.

The processors only provide you with a platform to work on. 

You need to contact processor directly, not us in such case.

I have contacted them, but as you see without a solution. They seem to ignore me.

If your VPS server is down, its not your problem? The VPS provider has THOUSANDS of users/"vendors", too.

As customer everything falls back to the vendor of the product... You will have to ensure that everything works fine.
When I wanted to refund my BTC for the Bot Buy, I directly wrote, that I want my bitcoins to a different address.

You just said, not my case, please contact the payment provider. You should have hinted the payment provider.
I had to do it myself and they ignored my request. So the Bitcoins are gone to a hacked address.

BTC: 1DpXtqbpXCxKZFa5edCVftFVEmrk8EWfmH
NMC: NKHZh5tipJnY2jjmbuAS5uLX42VpTgFtwA
LTC: LXGe3isStn3FPqM49xP4grrw4HMeMHLz98
eurobitcoin
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December 01, 2013, 12:14:01 PM
 #9

I understand your pain but I cant help you with Bitpay support. Try reaching them again next week.
eurobitcoin
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December 02, 2013, 10:20:06 PM
 #10

Regarding the other question,

Everybody who is criticising the robot always compares it to "ideal"
strong bullish trend.

The problem of such comparison is that you are forgeting the other
side of the coin, on what happens when the strong correction comes

Obviously the robot is less profitable on a strong bullish trend
because of btc-e commissions that eat some of the profit comparing
to buy and hold

However it is safer and more profitable long term if we see the big picture.

Here is the data comparing the performance of the robot against "buy
and hold". You can see that the robot outperforms buy and hold long
term and the drawdowns don't exceed 10% while "buy and hold" drawdowns
may reach up to 70%!

Comparison chart:

Data
http://btcrobot.com/comparison.zip
Saltamontes
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December 10, 2013, 02:06:49 PM
 #11

I purchased a total of 10BTC for an average price of $300 per BTC. Thus I invested $3000.  I let the Robot do it's thing.  I now have a total of 3.2 BTC for a total of about $3000.  Had I just left the BTC alone I would now have still 10BTC for a total of about $9200.  Looking at the buys and sells (hundreds of them) over the past months by the BTC, it appears that the robot buys and sells at innapropriate times.  A robot is supposed to look at trends. There are many indicators of a buy and many for a sell.  If the value of the BTC is going down and you expect it to go up you buy. If the value is going up and you expect it to go down lower then you sell. With each successful transaction you should be improving your lot. At some point you may have more USD and at some point more BTC, but your profit should ideally be going up. The robot is supposed to prevent large losses and maximize profits. In the case of the BTCRobot it has failed. The only reason that my total is not down is the fact that BTC has  increased so rapidly. My profit is in spite of, rather than due to the BTCRobot.
eurobitcoin
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December 12, 2013, 09:17:35 AM
 #12

What is the new update you are talking about?

We applied the new update 1.3 automatically to all robots including silver. There is no action needed on your part.

The update was addressing few Btc-e API changes that prevented robot from seeing the balance properly and resulted in incorrect chart dips. This is now fixed and the update is applied. Rest assured we are always working hard behind the scenes to keep the robot up to date for you!

 
sly5am
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December 20, 2013, 12:39:01 AM
 #13

thanks.. I understand now.

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