Bitcoin Forum
December 15, 2017, 07:05:48 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Add option to display mBTC instead of BTC  (Read 1883 times)
Missionary
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224



View Profile WWW
November 27, 2013, 08:47:49 PM
 #1

Hi.

Could it be time to switch to mBTC as default in the client, or at least to add a switch allowing the user to choose what to display?

Thanks for your awesome work. Best there is.

I am an evangelical missionary heading to China. Donations are welcome here (dedicated wallet): 1H8iswayfTaRb6oe2WjMCRmchBJHYyfx9z
You can find more information about my plans here: http://btcmission.com
1513321548
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513321548

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513321548
Reply with quote  #2

1513321548
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513321548
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513321548

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513321548
Reply with quote  #2

1513321548
Report to moderator
etotheipi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1428


Core Armory Developer


View Profile WWW
November 27, 2013, 08:55:44 PM
 #2

There was some discussion recently on the mailing list about this.  The general consensus was that:

(1) This needs to be done carefully to avoid people sending 1000x what they intended
(2) It is difficult to change an established system.  So we want to do it once.
(3) It'd be nice to only have two digits after the decimal since most accounting software can't handle more

Therefore, we go straight to micro-BTC.  It solves all of this in one fell swoop.  At the current Bitcoin price (~$1,000) that would be 1,000 uBTC per $1 USD.  That's a totally reasonable, human-usable system.  And accommodates all future non-hardforking growth (i.e. if we never need more than 8 decimal places, this will be last forever).


Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
Missionary
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224



View Profile WWW
November 27, 2013, 10:16:15 PM
 #3

There was some discussion recently on the mailing list about this.  The general consensus was that:

(1) This needs to be done carefully to avoid people sending 1000x what they intended
(2) It is difficult to change an established system.  So we want to do it once.
(3) It'd be nice to only have two digits after the decimal since most accounting software can't handle more

Therefore, we go straight to micro-BTC.  It solves all of this in one fell swoop.  At the current Bitcoin price (~$1,000) that would be 1,000 uBTC per $1 USD.  That's a totally reasonable, human-usable system.  And accommodates all future non-hardforking growth (i.e. if we never need more than 8 decimal places, this will be last forever).



Sounds awesome!

I am an evangelical missionary heading to China. Donations are welcome here (dedicated wallet): 1H8iswayfTaRb6oe2WjMCRmchBJHYyfx9z
You can find more information about my plans here: http://btcmission.com
Roy Badami
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 531


View Profile
November 28, 2013, 01:22:17 AM
 #4

It strikes me that whatever units we use, the only way to avoid errors of sending orders of magnitude too many coins is to confirm the value in (approximate) fiat.  We're a long way from a situation where most Bitcoin users have an inuitive feel for sums of Bitcoin - and this is only in part due to the rapid price moves.  This is true even without a unit change - the latter will just add confusion.

Assuming we're agreed that fiat confirmations are useful as a sanity check (Bitcoin Wallet for Android has them and tbh I think all online clients should) - it does raise the question as to what rates to use, but moreover how to obtain trusted exchange rates.

Although, with offline wallets ideally you'd want trusted sources of signed exchange rate data.  If the offline computer could verify the signature and timeliness of exchange rate date saved along side the unsigned transaction, then you could guarantee that the user would be presented with accurate information when verifying the transaction.

roy
Automatic
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238


View Profile
November 28, 2013, 03:03:22 AM
 #5

There was some discussion recently on the mailing list about this.  The general consensus was that:

(1) This needs to be done carefully to avoid people sending 1000x what they intended
(2) It is difficult to change an established system.  So we want to do it once.
(3) It'd be nice to only have two digits after the decimal since most accounting software can't handle more

Therefore, we go straight to micro-BTC.  It solves all of this in one fell swoop.  At the current Bitcoin price (~$1,000) that would be 1,000 uBTC per $1 USD.  That's a totally reasonable, human-usable system.  And accommodates all future non-hardforking growth (i.e. if we never need more than 8 decimal places, this will be last forever).



I admit, I've yet to read through the source code of Armory (Sorry...), but:-

(1) Wouldn't it all just be in the UI? The backend would still be the exact same, dealing with BTC. You wouldn't magically have to start processing mBTC.
(2) Nothing really to say, I agree.
(3) Unfortunately, I don't see the relevance here, I assume you're talking about one of the exporting options I don't use.

Please ask for a signed message from my on-site Bitcoin address (Check my profile) before doing any offsite trades with me.
etotheipi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1428


Core Armory Developer


View Profile WWW
November 28, 2013, 07:00:33 AM
 #6

(1) Yes, it's all UI.  But we risk alienating users by making Bitcoin even more complicated and confusing than it already is. If everyone (and every wallet app) uses different units, and they can't convert in their head easily, and it's even the slightest bit feasible to enter incorrect values... it's becomes a serious usability problem.
(2) Making a concerted effort to have everyone changing units will cause confusion even if we "do it right".  And there will be resistence.  And disagreement.  Let's decide it's a good idea, then do it once and push it hard. 
(3) Now that I'm a business owner, I can tell you that there are a plethora of tools out there for helping manage and track financials.  And there's no guarantee they handle anything more than 2 decimal places, because they don't need to.   I don't know if there's any currencies that use more than two.

And I recently talked to a guy about using NetSuite for our company which is used by multi-billion dollar companies, and it doesn't handle more than two decimal places.  He had to implement everything he did in microbitcoins because of that.

Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
Missionary
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224



View Profile WWW
November 28, 2013, 11:48:58 AM
 #7

Also, this might be something to consider:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1rmto3/its_bits/

But I assume that people using Armory will be somewhat accustomed to using SI-units.

I am an evangelical missionary heading to China. Donations are welcome here (dedicated wallet): 1H8iswayfTaRb6oe2WjMCRmchBJHYyfx9z
You can find more information about my plans here: http://btcmission.com
Regulus
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 18


Developer of "Nxs" Nxt client


View Profile
November 29, 2013, 02:05:36 AM
 #8

(1) Yes, it's all UI.  But we risk alienating users by making Bitcoin even more complicated and confusing than it already is. If everyone (and every wallet app) uses different units, and they can't convert in their head easily, and it's even the slightest bit feasible to enter incorrect values... it's becomes a serious usability problem.

You are right, yet this problem too can be taken care of if done in the right way.

I suggest it defaults to BTC on first startup of Armory. Then, on the Settings menu (which should ideally be separated into tabs), there is a "Display" tab with a section for Display Scale and a small table with radio buttons for each row similar to:

AbbreviationNameScale
BTCBitcoin1.00000000 BTC
mBTCMillibitcoin0.00100000 BTC
uBTCMicrobitcoin0.00000100 BTC

Why should it be done like that? Because it explains to a new user what the different scales are in enough detail to fully understand the display abbreviation (BTC / mBTC / uBTC), pronunciation of the unit, and the relation to the 1.0 BTC scale and yet also concise enough not to take up a ton of space in the Settings window.

Perhaps there are better ideas? Maybe it could even ask you to choose a display scale with the same table + radio buttons setup when you start up Armory for the first time?

Developer of Nxs (https://github.com/Regulus343/Nxs) Nxt client
Roy Badami
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 531


View Profile
November 30, 2013, 12:53:46 AM
 #9

uBTCMicrobitcoin0.00000100 BTC

I think you mean

µBTCMicrobitcoin0.00000100 BTC

(It's a greek mu, not a letter u)
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!