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Author Topic: Two TradeHill features that I would really love to have  (Read 903 times)
JoelKatz
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August 07, 2011, 12:09:40 AM
 #1

There are two things TradeHill doesn't do that I would really appreciate. I'm curious if other people would appreciate these features as well and also if there's some unusual reason they're not easy to do.

1) Orders to sell bitcoins I don't yet hold or buy bitcoins with funds I don't yet have:

Say I want to sell all my bitcoins if the exchange rate hits $13. But I also have a lot of triggered buy orders. So I don't know how many bitcoins I'll have. Right now, I can't place a sell order for more bitcoins than I currently hold. I'd like to be able to place a sell or buy order with an "up to" amount, and it will buy or sell as much as possible up to that amount. This way, if bitcoins are at $10, I can place a buy order at $9.50 and a buy order at $9 and a sell order at $13 to sell any bitcoins I might buy if those buy orders trigger and the price comes back to $10.

Similarly, say bitcoins are currently trading at $10 and I currently hold no bitcoins. I might want to place a buy order at $9 and a sell order at $9.50 to sell any bitcoins I might buy should the price drop to $9 and come back to $9.50.

In reverse, this means I can place sell orders as the market rises and use those funds to fund a buy order that I place now. If the buy order triggers, it will buy with funds I have now plus funds acquired after the order was placed should any sell orders trigger. This would also mean I could place an order to sell bitcoins before I transfer them into my account or buy bitcoins before I transfer dollars into my account and the order would fill as it was funded.

2) Stop loss / take profit orders:

Say I hold 50 bitcoins and bitcoins are currently trading at $7. I can certainly sell them now for $6-$7, but I don't want to sell them. But I don't want to keep holding them to $5. What I'd like to be able to do is place a stop loss / take profit order that will sell my bitcoins if they start trading below $6.

In reverse, if I have $100 and bitcoins are trading at $10, I can certainly buy them for $10-$12 now. But suppose I'd prefer to wait for the market to drop, but if it goes above $12, then I want to buy before it gets too much higher. I'd like to place a triggered order to buy at market rate before the market gets much above $12.

So, are these features doable? Am I the only one that would use them?


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August 07, 2011, 01:11:07 AM
 #2

I don't think you're alone.

I think MtGox allows the first; and I'm fairly sure CampBX does the second.

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August 07, 2011, 02:45:11 AM
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IMHO, I believe that an exchange should keeps its basic functionality simple.

If you wish to create complex order situations, then you should have access to an API and build a bot with the functionality and algorithms you desire.

I think that placing orders with money you do not yet have would skew the market depth.

I could place a buy order for 10 million btc at 7.00 each...and who could tell if that was fake or not?

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JoelKatz
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August 07, 2011, 03:11:05 AM
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IMHO, I believe that an exchange should keeps its basic functionality simple.
I agree.

Quote
If you wish to create complex order situations, then you should have access to an API and build a bot with the functionality and algorithms you desire.
That doesn't scale well. A bot has to watch the market all the time and presents a higher risk of malfunction or missed opportunity for the trader.

Quote
I think that placing orders with money you do not yet have would skew the market depth.

I could place a buy order for 10 million btc at 7.00 each...and who could tell if that was fake or not?
Nobody, because they wouldn't see that order. They would see the order for as many as you could afford. When more money entered your account (whether due to selling bitcoins, adding dollars, or whatever) then they'd see the order increase, just as if you placed it manually.

All of the things I'm asking for are things a person could do manually or with a bot, it's just that there are huge disadvantages to those two approaches.

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August 07, 2011, 05:36:13 AM
 #5

I sent them a request similar to #1, but my concern was more about the time to transfer bitcoins.  My thought was like this:

1.  I initiate a bitcoin transfer to TradeHill, with an intent to sell them.

2.  I already have money at TradeHill, but I'm out of bitcoins.

3.  They see my transfer request immediately, credit the bitcoins to my account, and reserve some cash in my account equal to the number of bitcoins I transferred times the current market rate, plus some safety margin.

4.  I can sell the bitcoins immediately, and the money reserved in my account becomes "unreserved" after the necessary 6 confirmations.

This would effectively let you transfer bitcoins instantly, assuming you had some $$ in your account to cover them.  The problem now is that I'll see a good sell opportunity, but by the time my bitcoins get there, the opportunity is gone. 
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August 07, 2011, 08:23:55 AM
 #6

If you wish to create complex order situations, then you should have access to an API and build a bot with the functionality and algorithms you desire.

Latency.  It always adds.

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Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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August 07, 2011, 06:25:29 PM
 #7

We can look in to it for sure. We've talked about adding additional features similar to those suggested above and would like to. It's just a matter of time and coding it all out. We're going to have some really cool features come out in the next couple weeks that should fix a few problems and bring something new to Bitcoin.

We appreciate and listen to all the feedback. With Bitcoin you're not limited by your options it's more an an issue of deciding which ones you want to go for first.

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August 07, 2011, 08:20:20 PM
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I just want to be able to buy bitcoin at market value when the price drops.  For example MT gox price now is $7.
I would love to buy at $7 on tradehill but there's about 400 bids between 7.22 and 7.60
It will not get down to $7 unless mt gox is at $6 or something.

I think it's the lack of sellers on tradehill, that causes bidders to bid up the price higher than mt gox
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August 07, 2011, 11:00:12 PM
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where are all the sellers on tradehill?? I've been trying to buy but no one is selling
JoelKatz
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August 08, 2011, 12:57:09 AM
 #10

We appreciate and listen to all the feedback. With Bitcoin you're not limited by your options it's more an an issue of deciding which ones you want to go for first.
Oh, well then the one that automatically places your buy at the daily low or your sell at the daily high should definitely go first.

where are all the sellers on tradehill?? I've been trying to buy but no one is selling
The bid/ask spreads on TradeHill this weekend have been insane. But this hasn't been a typical weekend for bitcoins either.

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August 08, 2011, 03:30:08 AM
 #11

Spreads have gotten bad because Tradehill doesn't facilitate arbitrage. I was considering moving some coin over to it, but right now I've heard some stories about Paxum transfers taking forever, and they obviously aren't supporting Dwolla anymore... I wish Tradehill would support Dwolla for users who take the time to identify exactly who they are.

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August 08, 2011, 03:50:04 AM
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Spreads have gotten bad because Tradehill doesn't facilitate arbitrage. I was considering moving some coin over to it, but right now I've heard some stories about Paxum transfers taking forever, and they obviously aren't supporting Dwolla anymore... I wish Tradehill would support Dwolla for users who take the time to identify exactly who they are.

That is not the issue with that piece of **** m****r f***ing Dwolla! *breathes... calms down* The issue with Dwolla is not on the User End, it is Dwolla itself.  Dwolla took actions which were specifically fraudulent.  I don't care how convenient they may be, I'm not in a rush to see any worthwhile business adopt Dwolla.

International currency transactions take time unless you're dealing with BTC.  Dwolla is not a safe or sane alternative.

Edit- EEP! Almost derailed the thread.  Also meant to add I think your features would be awesome, Joelkatz.  They also don't appear as complex when you look at the benefit/cost ratio.  I think these features are very solid, especially #2.

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August 08, 2011, 10:23:11 AM
 #13

I would love to see a "Buy as many X for Y" option. As an example: If I transfer 100 EUR, I want to buy BTC for 100 EUR - if I save 20 Eurocents via the instant buy option, these do me no good, as I can't trade them and withdrawing is also too expensive. I guess many people would ratehr spend the full amount and get a few Bitcents extra (and vice versa) than having some pocket change left.

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August 09, 2011, 06:53:16 PM
 #14

I agree on both points exactly, had already contacted TH, they say yeah, and brought me here.

Have any of you seen Ruxum? In the depth of orders, you can click on any bid or ask (most likely closest to spread), enter amount and immediately buy, and the remainder becomes a new order.

I have observed (I may be mistaken) that on Mt. Gox, if the LOWEST ASKs are $9.2, $9.3, $9.4 and I place a BID at $9.3, I will first buy at $9.2. However, given the same TH orders, my BID at $9.3 seems to result in a purchase at $9.3. If my observation is correct, who is getting the difference?

My pending orders should be descending by price, not chronology. In fact, why not let me sort by columns.

I would like the LAST, BID, ASK and my BALANCE on every page. Maybe clicking on it makes an asynchronous update. I like the Dashboard showing latest orders, transfers, deposits and withdrawls, but I can not see my balance over time. Again Ruxum has some nice charts for my orders, balances, and trade history. Do NOT learn from Mt. Gox's broken-isomorphic separation of dollar and bitcoin history (Mark, the old system was not great nor cryptic).

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