Bitcoin and alt-coin rant

[AnonyMint]

Hey OP, you are totalitarian. You don't like free markets. You want Stalin's IronFistTopDownCoin.

Chaos is a natural bitch if you don't design for it to be your friend.

[LiteCoinGuy]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bxrrw/playing_devils_advocate_why_bitcoin_will_crash_to/c9bhvme

good comment, thanks.


the crypto-world needs competition and needs Litecoin. its good for the whole system.

[Hawker]

Or are you thinking that Bitcoin payments would be done via the same credit card terminals? 

The same POS for all altcoins- for sure.  The same terminal with credit cards?  Of course!

So shop staff only need to be trained to use 1 terminal.  That's a very elegant solution.

[gamer4156]

So join me in casting your vote for Bitcoin, shop where Bitcoins are the only cypto currency accepted.

This comment alone shows how little you truly believe in bitcoin. Competition is healthy.

[slothbag]

So join me in casting your vote for Bitcoin, shop where Bitcoins are the only cypto currency accepted.

This comment alone shows how little you truly believe in bitcoin. Competition is healthy.

Not true, in this decentralized crypto world, majority rules.. and at the moment the greedy alt-coin pumpers are convincing many to value profit over everything else.

I'm simply saying rather than let greed drive our direction, make a stance and let it be known that you prefer Bitcoin.

These alt-coins will always be around, and they do bring some benefits.. but with figureheads like Max Keiser now spruiking LTC and BTC like they are the same thing, newcomers will consider them the same and then our 21 million base just became 105 million. I liked the 21 million base.

[Siegfried]

So join me in casting your vote for Bitcoin, shop where Bitcoins are the only cypto currency accepted.

This comment alone shows how little you truly believe in bitcoin. Competition is healthy.

Not true, in this decentralized crypto world, majority rules.. and at the moment the greedy alt-coin pumpers are convincing many to value profit over everything else.

I'm simply saying rather than let greed drive our direction, make a stance and let it be known that you prefer Bitcoin.

These alt-coins will always be around, and they do bring some benefits.. but with figureheads like Max Keiser now spruiking LTC and BTC like they are the same thing, newcomers will consider them the same and then our 21 million base just became 105 million. I liked the 21 million base.

The number of coins is arbitrary and totally meaningless. What matters it that the supply is known and cannot be arbitrarily and secretly manipulated by a central authority.

[Siegfried]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bxrrw/playing_devils_advocate_why_bitcoin_will_crash_to/c9bhvme

good comment, thanks.


the crypto-world needs competition and needs Litecoin. its good for the whole system.

Let a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred crypto-coins contend.

[alyssa85]

Satoshi started with a nice premise.. stop the inflation, lets have a currency limited to 21 million units.

All Satoshi wanted to do was prove that his idea of how to send money securely online without double-spending, worked. That's all. Everything else is speculation projected onto him as he's a blank slate who hardly made a political comment.

Bitcoin is a technological breakthrough, not a political one. And Satoshi made it open source so anyone could clone and amend it if they wanted.

If people want to buy altcoins, they are free to spend their money. If they want to make and mine altcoins, they are free to spend their time. Don't know what it's got to do with you.

As for the politics, lets keep that out. Imagine if MP3 had been released and people said, you can only use this technology if you want to download for free, and if you haven't bought into the pirate world, you are excluded. How would that have affected how many songs got released in MP3 format? Think about it. Politicising technology narrows it's market.

[MicroGuy]

Or are you thinking that Bitcoin payments would be done via the same credit card terminals?  

The same POS for all altcoins- for sure.  The same terminal with credit cards?  Of course!

Yes, exactly! I see this in the future with consumers leaning towards the most brandable coins.

Check out my GoldCoin Report™ from last night below (vvvvv) where I make my case for the altcoins!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtPpQQQF8mE

[AnonyMint]

Satoshi started with a nice premise.. stop the inflation, lets have a currency limited to 21 million units.

All Satoshi wanted to do was prove that his idea of how to send money securely online without double-spending, worked. That's all. Everything else is speculation projected onto him as he's a blank slate who hardly made a political comment.

My speculation:

My intuition that Bitcoin was a Trojan planted (probably by the NSA at the behest of some powers-that-be) started when I noticed in Satoshi's whitepaper that he was pitching it as a better gold, because gold coin rewards continue forever. Gold's above ground supply has always increased throughout the history of man. Immediately I smelled a scam, where he was going to induce all those liberty lovers (many of whom where already looking for alternatives to fiat, such as gold and silver) to become euphoric and illogical. It was very clever marketing, because it is obvious that he realized their suspicion and better judgment would be clouded and they would not notice the vulnerabilities caused by that decision to set a hard limit of 21 million coins. The ponzi result is the most glaring result of that design decision. Then other vulnerabilities also derive from that design decision as explained below. It is so ironic that what the investors love most about Bitcoin, is precisely why it is evil. Also couple this with most of you don't understand monetary economics well. And you think that debasement is bad or somehow connected to expansive Keynesian government spending. You don't realize that the government exists to stop the hoarding of the 3% because otherwise the economy would go into gridlock (the gridlock you will see as Bitcoin reaches the tip of its ponzi bubble). Either we debase decentrally or the government does it. And when the government does it, it becomes Keynesian:

[snip the urls]

But I also think Satoshi was smarter than his handlers. He hid the decentralized solution inside of a Trojan. All we have to do is change a few of the design parameters, then we eliminate the main reason government exists; we eliminate the power vacuum. And we the people win. I have a historic example of the scientists lying through their teeth to DARPA, otherwise we would not have the internet today:

World Without Web.

Satoshi appears to have done the same outsmarted his handlers at the NSA, giving us the key insights and market excitement to do the correct design.

Bitcoin vulnerabilities...

[hayek]

There is a very interesting here
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/20/money-trading-economy-foreign-exchange-markets-economy

Thanks, so the gist here is given the choice of either a healthy stable economy or profit greatly, just about everyone chooses profit greatly.. and thats what we are seeing right now with the altcoins.

Profiting greatly is one cornerstone of a healthy, stable economy...

[laowai80]

AnonyMint,

we debase decentrally, with alt-coins. Period

[wannasurf]

Bitcoin really has one hell of a lock-in model. So I find it surprising that LiteCoin (in particular) is able to make reasonable headway. I had written it off. In fact, being human and having invested in BTC (like the OP I presume), it kind of bothered me until I decided to can't-beat-em-join-em buy some LTC with BTC over at BTC-e. That was pretty easy and soothed my emotions

Also, I find it amusing in self-reflection that I am jealous of someone making 20x in a couple weeks when I "only" made 2x.

But overall, look, I think the fact that there is demand for the alt coins shows that there is just huge pent-up demand for all cryptocurrency, just the whole concept of it, people are looking for something to save away their wealth safely. This can only benefit BTC as the clear front-runner.

[AnonyMint]

AnonyMint,

we debase decentrally, with alt-coins. Period

Agreed, I have noted that too in my writings.

Btw, I probably contributed to the launch of the Litecoin price rise. Go see my postings in the Problem With Altcoins thread in early November. I slayed the notion of lock-in for Bitcoin. After that, Litecoin took off. I dunno  

Also see my postings in the How to Hedge Against Bitcoin Collapse thread right before LTC blasted off.

All in Economics subforum.

Note the altcoins will likely be more volatile and many people will get burned badly.

[laowai80]

Bitcoin really has one hell of a lock-in model. So I find it surprising that LiteCoin (in particular) is able to make reasonable headway. I had written it off. In fact, being human and having invested in BTC (like the OP I presume), it kind of bothered me until I decided to can't-beat-em-join-em buy some LTC with BTC over at BTC-e. That was pretty easy and soothed my emotions

Also, I find it amusing in self-reflection that I am jealous of someone making 20x in a couple weeks when I "only" made 2x.

But overall, look, I think the fact that there is demand for the alt coins shows that there is just huge pent-up demand for all cryptocurrency, just the whole concept of it, people are looking for something to save away their wealth safely. This can only benefit BTC as the clear front-runner.

Coca Cola and Ford were the first. So what. People don't want to wear all the same clothes, drive the same cars, drink the same drink, use the same coins. Diversity.

[AnonyMint]

AnonyMint,

we debase decentrally, with alt-coins. Period

Agreed, I have noted that too in my writings.

Here is where I had written:

Thus the value (note I didn't say price, as the price can go as high as the participants want to pay) you propose can't be reached before a massive redistribution event, and such event can't occur via market price transfer. There simply is no other way to get from here to there without a change to the Bitcoin protocol, government intervention, or a proliferation of altcoins (note Litecoin is now $36). See the first link below.

Bitcoin can't do this, because there isn't any trend to spending which doesn't bankrupt the middle class. Thus the only way for Bitcoiners to exit is via "rake", i.e. not spending (nor investing as BTC) rather converting back to fiat.

[PenAndPaper]

But overall, look, I think the fact that there is demand for the alt coins shows that there is just huge pent-up demand for all cryptocurrency

I don't think there is demand for every crap coin out there. Litecoin is considered the cheap bitcoin by most of the newcomers and they see greater potential. Also there are some coins like namecoin / primecon / ppcoin that people put money on because they look somehow different.
Aside from those don't expect any of the other rip-offs to gain actual traction.