Questions (probably nooblet questions)

[Alpha3]

Hello,

Just wondering about 3 things:

- My understanding being that the total amount of bitcoins is limited to 21kk BTC, and that any lost bitcoins/wallets are completely lost (the BTC won't ever be recovered, ever), then the amount of BTC available when time reaches infinity will be zero. My understanding is that it will just cause inflation and that it is not a problem.

But...

I also understand that there is a lower limit to the size of a transaction (which is a pain, somehow, since I have lots of wallets with less than the threshold value on them (another way of wasting BTC, IMHO). (I am not sure of the minimum amount of BTC... but I've seen 0.001 fees here and there, in setup files, and some site don't allow any transaction of less than a minimum amount)...

Since the rise of value of the BTC (vs EUR or USD), even a small fraction of BTC will, if you also take inflation into account, eventually make 0.001 BTC a good amount of money (when you'll be able to buy a car with 0.001, you'll be reluctant to pay any of those fees.).

So, are bitcoins doomed, eventually? ;-)

- and my second question, is about those fees we pay, who do they go to? For example, I have setup a server in a datacenter with full connectivity, running bitcoind in server mode... will it get some BTC for being up? How do we know which server actually gets the fees? is it possible to make sure a specific infrastructure gets the fee?

- third: what stops a gang to setup a bunch of rogue servers, with time set way back in the past, non connected to the rest of the universe, and begin creating BTC like it was the first day of creation (easy hash to find, lots of BTC gained each time they strike gold)?

Any clarification appreciated...

Thank you,

[pokerFace2]

Transaction fee is 0.0001 BTC per 1000 Bytes of data. Will be probably lowered again next year (depending on BTC price)

Transaction fees only get minner who found the block, just running Bitcoin-qt does not count, you must actively mine with GPU or ASIC with programs like cgminer

[rarkenin]

- third: what stops a gang to setup a bunch of rogue servers, with time set way back in the past, non connected to the rest of the universe, and begin creating BTC like it was the first day of creation (easy hash to find, lots of BTC gained each time they strike gold)?

Quite simply put, their history would not be accepted by the majority of the network. Mining must occur sequentially where each block is based on the previous in a chain. If the rouge servers try to mess with this their blocks won't actually validate as part of the chain when cryptographic checks are done.

They could start a new coin system, however, separate and not trying to interfere with the main chain. That is called an altcoin. Many examples exist like Namecoin (NMC), litecoin (LXC), et cetera.

[pokerFace2]

- third: what stops a gang to setup a bunch of rogue servers, with time set way back in the past, non connected to the rest of the universe, and begin creating BTC like it was the first day of creation (easy hash to find, lots of BTC gained each time they strike gold)?

Most clients use control points up to about block number 200,000 , so if you start from block 1 even with longest chain most clients ignore your longest chain

If you have more hashing speed than the current network, you might fork the blockchain after about  block number 200,000 and after some time you will have longest blockchain and invalidate previous transactions in original blockchain since about block number 200,000

Thats why hashing speed the Bitcoin has compared to other altcoins does matter

[Ahen_coincepts]

The limited supply of BTC should cause deflation of the currency. In other words the BTC will become more valuable as demand continues to exceed supply. This is opposed to how most traditional currencies work. I will use USD as I am more familiar with it. The US Treasury can print additional money. This money is more or less created from nothing. As supply increases and we assume constant demand the value decreases.

As far as divisibility,  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#How_divisible_are_bitcoins.3F

This is a good start. Currently BTC is divisible down to 8 decimal places. If needed this can be increased.

Lower limits will likely be adjusted and fees will be reduced to reflect the increased value of the BTC. However it will take time for companies to adjust their fees. The market reacts quickly, companies will soon follow.

I am fairly new as well so I will refrain from commenting on your last two questions

[Alpha3]

Transaction fee is 0.0001 BTC per 1000 Byes of data. Will be probably lowered again next year (depending on BTC price)

Who decides the amount? and when to change? is there a bitcoin governance (a central governor of the central bitcoin bank who sets the interests rates etc??) ;-)? What happens if two bitcoind aren't in version sync (one with the old cost, one with the new) or if someone decides to recompile with a different algorithm to compute the fee?

Transaction fees only get minner who found the block, just running Bitcoin-qt does not count, you must actively mine with GPU or ASIC with programs like cgminer

My understanding was that the miners would get BTC in exchange of mining, and that in the end, the server operators who make sure the flow of queries/validation would get a reward for the CPU, storage, bandwidth and energy the put into the system to serve the community (all those ressorurces do cost real hard won money)...

Did I miss something?

[dabjanka]

I have had similar concerns, although BTC scares the bajeezus out of me; too volatile; my thoughts on the future of e-currency are that when the time comes that the value of the coins is that significant they will have to modify the fees. If no one spends BTC the person collecting those fees makes nada, so the community getting together and agreeing that there is entirely too much $ going out the window for no reason to someone who has done minimal work will be what stops the ludicrous taxing of a "free market currency".

Hopefully that makes sense i try my best not to ramble.

[pokerFace2]

Transaction fee is 0.0001 BTC per 1000 Byes of data. Will be probably lowered again next year (depending on BTC price)

Who decides the amount? and when to change? is there a bitcoin governance (a central governor of the central bitcoin bank who sets the interests rates etc??) ;-)? What happens if two bitcoind aren't in version sync (one with the old cost, one with the new) or if someone decides to recompile with a different algorithm to compute the fee?

Miners deciding the rules, most miners use Bitcoin-qt so they agree to Bitcoin-qt fee rules.
But there is no central authority, miners decide

If some miner running older bitcoind version with 0.0005 minimum fees, he will only create block with transactions consisting of 0.0005+ fees if he happens to find the block

[pokerFace2]

Transaction fees only get minner who found the block, just running Bitcoin-qt does not count, you must actively mine with GPU or ASIC with programs like cgminer

My understanding was that the miners would get BTC in exchange of mining, and that in the end, the server operators who make sure the flow of queries/validation would get a reward for the CPU, storage, bandwidth and energy the put into the system to serve the community (all those ressorurces do cost real hard won money)...

Did I miss something?

Only minners get block reward + fees with their dedicated ASIC hardware (GPU possible too)
If you dont mine, you run Bitcoin-qt just to have most recent blockchain and help others to have most recent blockchain, no rewards for this

Try read Bitcoin FAQ
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ

[Alpha3]

Transaction fee is 0.0001 BTC per 1000 Byes of data. Will be probably lowered again next year (depending on BTC price)

Who decides the amount? and when to change? is there a bitcoin governance (a central governor of the central bitcoin bank who sets the interests rates etc??) ;-)? What happens if two bitcoind aren't in version sync (one with the old cost, one with the new) or if someone decides to recompile with a different algorithm to compute the fee?

Miners deciding the rules, most miners use Bitcoin-qt so they agree to Bitcoin-qt fee rules.
But there is no central authority, miners decide

If some miner running older bitcoind version with 0.0005 minimum fees, he will only create block with transactions consisting of 0.0005+ fees if he happens to find the block

So the miner gets both the newly created BTC _and_ some fee? (or do they decide to give a fee to the network of server?)

But I thought I read somewhere that a fee was created automagically (substracted) when the BTC "bill" is too new (to avoid DoD attacks), too big, or the amount too small (to avoid gold "dust") (maybe not exactly those rules, but in any case, they had nothing to do with the process of "creation" that miners get involved in).

(BTW, I did read the FAQ, the wiki and all, before deciding to set anything up, invest some ressources, energy, time... but things are still being set into place into my clutered brain ^^' )

[Alpha3]

Also, just to be clear, I _do_ know we can split BTC as much as we want. I _did_ some reading...

But it has been my experience, that as long as there aren't enough volume of BTC associated with an address, the BTC are stuck in small fractions with whoever is supposed to own them to me (ex: when I mine in a pool, I get 0.000001 or less BTC at a time, and I just can't get anything out of the pool as long as I don't get at least 0.01 BTC... Same elsewhere when people say they will pay me for doing stupid stuff like clicking on links or other stuffs that don't make the BTC look too good )...

That's why I ask questions about the granularity of transactions, for example. And that's also why I ask myself silly questions about lost BTC (small amounts that can't be used, again and again, for me, and probably others, are bound to make a big dent in the big stack of 21M BTC that we are supposed to get in the end)...

[Alpha3]

About my third question, the act of creating a time lapse, mining with the tech available now, but with a difficulty of way way back...

Both answers given do make some sense... but...

but, if the servers have only short term memory, what happens to old wallets that people keep stored in a safety deposit box, waiting for better rates, 3 years or more from now... will the servers accept them? and if yes, what are the differences between those wallets, and some new wallet, created on a subnetwork of servers, with clocks set in the past?

I understand from what you replied, both of you, that both trunks of transactions must have the same origin... they must all be rooted to the same trunk.

Must BTC always be in motion to make sure they are "live" in the servers memory (split them, move them, from time to time)?

[neordicICE]

Must BTC always be in motion to make sure they are "live" in the servers memory (split them, move them, from time to time)?

No, you dont need to move Bitcoins to make these valid. The bitcoins received 4 years ago can be still used today or later even if not used for 4 years