Same old song and dance.

[KBundy]

Greetings all,

First off I would like to thank everyone of you who supports the BTC not only for hope in a personal gain, but as an idea that currency should be free and decentralized.  All of you are what make this whole machine keep on ticking.

That being said, I would like to state my firm affirmation that speculator trading of the BTC against the USD, and the bots that have grown up around these trades will be the end of BTC as we know it.  These numerous and continuous trades creates a volatility that scares many people away.  Not only that, the people who have an honest confidence in BTC as a way to improve the world will be driven out by the people who are consumed by the same greed as banks and wallstreet traders.

This started as an idea to end corruption and greed and create an whole new economy of p2p transfers, and has now so far gone to ruin.

If anyone can and is willing to put themselves aside and think about how EVERYONE can gain from doing this right, I call you to lay down your arms and together we can make anything possible.

-KBundy

[GeniuSxBoY]

Every system ever created is doomed to fail because people exploit the rules and regulations whereever they can. They use loopholes and exploit good things like charity and use them for themselves which is bad. Welfare is exploited. Unemployment is exploited. It just causes us to lose more and more freedoms.

The United States started out with a simple constitution.

Today, we have so many laws that it's impossible to read all of them unless you devote your life to them.

Today, we have so many laws that overlap, practically nothing is legal and nothing is illegal. If you have the right lawyer.


What the United States lacks is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and COMMON SENSE.

A system can't run without these and every day the government takes more and more personal responsibility from us (passing laws) while not using common sense (going into deeper debt)


Likewise: Bitcoin started with unlimited freedom. As people exploit their freedom, we begin to create laws. more and more and more law until the system isn't so free anymore. Freedom can't survive in a land of irresponsibility.

[Shinobi]

This started as an idea to end corruption and greed and create an whole new economy of p2p transfers, and has now so far gone to ruin.

This was started to make money. The whole "new paradigm ideology" was just a cover. If the founders of Bitcoin didn't hold so much, I'd consider believing otherwise. I mean, the very creator is some mythical guy who disappeared.

[error]

This started as an idea to end corruption and greed and create an whole new economy of p2p transfers, and has now so far gone to ruin.

This was started to make money. The whole "new paradigm ideology" was just a cover. If the founders of Bitcoin didn't hold so much, I'd consider believing otherwise. I mean, the very creator is some mythical guy who disappeared.

It was started to create money, at least that is true.

The question here is, since you're so familiar with Satoshi's intentions, are you Satoshi, or just a troll?

[grod]

And it has.  It's created a few hundred dollars for me out of thin air.  For that I thank Satoshi.  That's the very first time ever my computing hobby has directly paid for itself.

[drgr33n]

I think the crash is whats needed for now. I love bitcoin and what it's about, but I do think it's far from ready for the general public. I think we need to loose some of these greedy fookers and in it for a quick buck dudes so the price can stabilize and the community can take bitcoin to the next level. And by the next level i mean secure wallets, full safe & secure banking system, merchant services etc.

[piramida]

Bitcons can not exist in a vacuum, without being traded for other currencies. Whether you like it or not, bitcoins without exchange = no bitcoins, no business would ever adopt that idea of selling their stock for non-exchangeable illiquid commodity.

So no, you are wrong. Bitcoin speculators and "bots" create volatility which helps find the current market value for BTC, and once it stabilized these exchange will make bitcoins liquid. And that would help business to accept it and finally may come a day, many many years from now, when a business would be able to run completely on BTC, without exchanging into fiat money. Greed, as bad as it is, is the only possibility to attract real money to the project - there aren't that many altruistic deep pockets, and they are all busy saving the world. Real money would equal real businesses down the line. It is needed.

So original post can be deleted, you could have spent 15 minutes thinking about it first.

[KBundy]

This started as an idea to end corruption and greed and create an whole new economy of p2p transfers, and has now so far gone to ruin.

This was started to make money. The whole "new paradigm ideology" was just a cover. If the founders of Bitcoin didn't hold so much, I'd consider believing otherwise. I mean, the very creator is some mythical guy who disappeared.

Thank you all for your responses,


I would like to first address the above comment. 

Satoshi Nakamoto created BTC to cut out financial intermediaries, something that everyone can stand to gain from.  He and other early miners were taking an incredible risk, and because of the risk they took, they are being rewarded for helping start something from nothing.  Imagine it as if you had invested with Steve Jobs when he was still some "crazy" dude working out of a garage.  At the time this would have seemed incredibly risky, however, those who did see the potential are now being rewarded for the risk they took.  This is fundamentally different than any scheme created for personal gain only.

Bitcons can not exist in a vacuum, without being traded for other currencies. Whether you like it or not, bitcoins without exchange = no bitcoins, no business would ever adopt that idea of selling their stock for non-exchangeable illiquid commodity.

As for this one, I believe you are underestimating the potential of this new economy severely.  Think about it this way...  Upon the creation of e-mail, there were very few users, and the value of such a service must have been similar to what you believe the value of BTC is now.  People looked at it as a useful tool, as BTC is now, but they never anticipated that it would ever be able to compete with the U.S. Postal Service and stand alone.  Today, everyone uses e-mail, it has been a tremendous success for both businesses and customers alike.  This will be the same for BTC.  As of now, there are few users by proportion to the population, but everyday that number grows.  At a certain point BTC will be able to stand alone by itself, and current fiat currencies will be worth about the value of the U.S. Postal Service is now.

Before leaving a comment, you could have spent more than 15 minutes thinking about it first.

-KBundy

[piramida]

Satoshi Nakamoto created BTC to cut out financial intermediaries, something that everyone can stand to gain from.  He and other early miners were taking an incredible risk

Sorry I miss some logic here, exactly which risk did somebody you call Satoshi Nakamoto took? The risk that his couple of month of coding would go unnoticed? But there are millions hobby projects like that around, guy did it because he liked the idea and thought it had potential.

As to your claim that for some reason BTC can grow independently, I don't see a single reasonable thought here on how the cycle can be broken, for a business that accepts BTC but spends USD.

[Gerken]

I think the crash is whats needed for now. I love bitcoin and what it's about, but I do think it's far from ready for the general public. I think we need to loose some of these greedy fookers and in it for a quick buck dudes so the price can stabilize and the community can take bitcoin to the next level. And by the next level i mean secure wallets, full safe & secure banking system, merchant services etc.

Why can't this be done now?  Why does the market need to crash so low that all interest is lost?  BTC has been around for a while now, but the first time it starts to gain any interest everything goes to hell in a handbasket.  With the bubble and the long slow steady decline, all interest will be lost, and you will be lucky to get any back.  BTC is already a joke, hoping for a severe crash to get rid of any and all interest for good is pretty boneheaded. 

[BillX]

As for this one, I believe you are underestimating the potential of this new economy severely.  Think about it this way...  Upon the creation of e-mail, there were very few users, and the value of such a service must have been similar to what you believe the value of BTC is now.  People looked at it as a useful tool, as BTC is now, but they never anticipated that it would ever be able to compete with the U.S. Postal Service and stand alone.  Today, everyone uses e-mail, it has been a tremendous success for both businesses and customers alike.  This will be the same for BTC.  As of now, there are few users by proportion to the population, but everyday that number grows.  At a certain point BTC will be able to stand alone by itself, and current fiat currencies will be worth about the value of the U.S. Postal Service is now.

Before leaving a comment, you could have spent more than 15 minutes thinking about it first.

-KBundy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000604/

[KBundy]

As for this one, I believe you are underestimating the potential of this new economy severely.  Think about it this way...  Upon the creation of e-mail, there were very few users, and the value of such a service must have been similar to what you believe the value of BTC is now.  People looked at it as a useful tool, as BTC is now, but they never anticipated that it would ever be able to compete with the U.S. Postal Service and stand alone.  Today, everyone uses e-mail, it has been a tremendous success for both businesses and customers alike.  This will be the same for BTC.  As of now, there are few users by proportion to the population, but everyday that number grows.  At a certain point BTC will be able to stand alone by itself, and current fiat currencies will be worth about the value of the U.S. Postal Service is now.

Before leaving a comment, you could have spent more than 15 minutes thinking about it first.

-KBundy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000604/

Call me crazy, but I believe craziness is defined as trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.  I'm here to try something new.  Those who are uneducated about the failures of fiat currency are crazy and they don't even know it.

[newminerr]

I think the crash is whats needed for now. I love bitcoin and what it's about, but I do think it's far from ready for the general public. I think we need to loose some of these greedy fookers and in it for a quick buck dudes so the price can stabilize and the community can take bitcoin to the next level. And by the next level i mean secure wallets, full safe & secure banking system, merchant services etc.

+1 Kudos, exactly how i feel now.

[noedaRDH]

Bitcoins will have its day in the light and emerge victorious.

But that day won't be today nor tomorrow or anywhere in the foreseeable future.

These crashes are just a massive shakedown. Another test. Another lesson.

At the very least, many who have invested into this hobby, not just in terms of money but in terms of time, have gained much insight from it.

What is learned will not be forgotten.

Bitcoin may fail but something will be taken it from and be a part of something of future societies.

[vulgata]

I think the crash is whats needed for now. I love bitcoin and what it's about, but I do think it's far from ready for the general public. I think we need to loose some of these greedy fookers and in it for a quick buck dudes so the price can stabilize and the community can take bitcoin to the next level. And by the next level i mean secure wallets, full safe & secure banking system, merchant services etc.

Why can't this be done now?  Why does the market need to crash so low that all interest is lost?  BTC has been around for a while now, but the first time it starts to gain any interest everything goes to hell in a handbasket.  With the bubble and the long slow steady decline, all interest will be lost, and you will be lucky to get any back.  BTC is already a joke, hoping for a severe crash to get rid of any and all interest for good is pretty boneheaded. 

This is very true; greed is the best motivator to get talent and brains involved in a project like this.  The increased interest and prices should've brought in people who would make secure wallets, exchanges, POS/merchant systems, etc., and ostensibly it did, but as it turns out they were mostly frauds (or incompetent at best) out to make a quick buck off of our naïveté.  I'm hoping for the best too, but the crash definitely wasn't a good thing.