Situation about ICE ROCK MINING (ROCK1 Token) No buyback as promised!!!

[Sindbad]

I write this because I got a lot of PM´s asking about the situation of ICE ROCK MINING regarding ROCK1 Token buyback and to show (warn) the people what they can expect when they invest in their new mining project ROCK2 Token.



For their first mining project "ICE ROCK1 Token" they promised their investors to buy back all their ROCK1 Token (1ROCK=3US$) on ETHERDELTA on May 1st.

The truth is there was no buyback activity on ETHERDELTA to this time.

If you ask them per email about this topic you get no answer, if you ask about this in their [ANN] your questions will be not answered or erased,  in their telegram group, you will be banned for this.

They claimed that they already bought back a small amount of ROCK1 Token for May but they no tell you where and they promised to buy back another small amount in June.

So they can´t (or don´t want) to payout their first investors as they promised, maybe they try to pay by installments over a long period, so there is no good ROI of your investment.


Simple, if there is no proper payout of ROCK1 Token there will be no proper payout for ROCK2 Token, too!!!

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[SaraDel]

You yourself are to blame, I wrote from the very beginning that this is a scam. There can not be electricity there at such low prices. But if big people believe in a fairy tale then they lose money.
They wash my messages too.

[Tuumbo]

Now if they do not redeem the tokens as promised, you can apply to the Scam Association.

[magneto]

Ice rock mining is almost a confirmed scam or ponzi. The only thing is that they have posed as a legitimate mining ICO, but they are promising way too much and guaranteeing everything.

They promise you 321% ROI per year, which is just ridiculous.

I also remember that they promised some sort of buyback program which essentially guaranteed profits, again a very shady thing to do since nobody can ever guarantee returns on any investments. If they're not paying the original ROCK1 investors, then imho they're just trying to milk their ICO scheme a bit more in the form of ROCK2 before they finally close down. Watch out for these ponzi schemes that will turn scam as soon as they get enough money in their pockets, posed as ICOs.

[SKRAAA]

OP is misinformed or he is intentionally misleading readers. Ice Rock is doing buyback of ROCK(1) tokens at the beginning of every month. There was first buyback on February 05, 2018 and you can see feedback from people who sold their tokens here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2781356.300
Truth is that they promised February 01 but 4 days delay is still small compared to other ICOs which delay token sale for months.
In February buyback they bought around 40 or 50,000 USD worth of tokens for price $2 per token. (in fact it was slightly less because buyback is done on EtherDelta so some people set price slightly lower than $2 to get first in line)
They spend on buyback whatever the amount they managed to mine in past month. For example on May 03 they spent around $15,000 for buybacks, so they bought around 5000 tokens because since May they are buying at price $3 per token. Maybe OP thought that there was no buyback because EtherDelta is f*cked and it's not showing history, even order book is sometimes not refreshed and is showing closed offers. But you can see on ForkDelta exactly how many tokens were bought: https://forkdelta.github.io/#!/trade/ROCK-ETH look for green numbers on the right side. They were buying lowest sell orders which were at around 0.0039 ETH.

You can condemn them for false marketing (promise that they will buyback (all) tokens on May 1st which they didn't, there are still many people waiting to sell their tokens) but you can't call it a scam. You need to be patient and sell your tokens in next buyback, when they mine more BTC, ETH and other coins which they are mining with equipment that they bought in Phase 1 of ICO. Next buyback is on June 1st like it is written in Telegram group for Phase 1 investors (special group).

[Sindbad]

@SKRAAA - read OP again. You are misleading readers and potential investors!

There was no adequate buyback for ROCK1 Token as the promised in May! Period!

Again, there will be no adequate payout for ROCK2 Token like there was no buyback for most of the investors of their first mining project ROCK1. Now, they only promise small buybacks for the next months and do not specify on which exchange in advance they will do this. Poor communication about this and banning people from their information channels if they ask specific questions regarding the buyback of ROCK1 Token.

[timerland]

Regardless of whatever the buyback situation currently is with the ROCK1 and ROCK2 token (although I'm in favor of the OP here), I think that we can all agree on the fact that Ice Rock Mining is shady at best as a organization.

They literally guarantee you making over 300% per year off your investment, and I fail to see how that can be done without running a ponzi scheme of some sort. Perhaps they'll just pull off the scam as soon as the ICO ends, even.

If they are indeed kicking people out from telegram, then that's another sign of a scam. But honestly, what's on their site alone and their promises should already be enough to say that it's a con.

[allahabadi]

They literally guarantee you making over 300% per year off your investment, and I fail to see how that can be done without running a ponzi scheme of some sort.

Only Ponzis can claim Guaranteed returns, because they know that won't be paying it anyway. The OP is correct, the argument that some tokens were bought back doesn't hold water as it might be simply to keep the Ponzi running and to get more investors. It's funny how people continue to get scammed in these schemes; I personally know a few people who were burned in BitConnect and still continue to invest in these. Some people never learn.

[Quickseller]

I would suggest contacting lauda about this. He ran the bounty campaign of this what should have been obvious ponzi.

[Sellingaccs]

Ice rock mining is almost a confirmed scam or ponzi. The only thing is that they have posed as a legitimate mining ICO, but they are promising way too much and guaranteeing everything.

Ice rock mining was an obvious scam, and i don't understand why people fell for it. Maybe because it was managed by someone that used to be legit i assume.

They promise you 321% ROI per year, which is just ridiculous.

It is possible, depending on the context. But anyone who understands business somewhat, knows that such promises are coming from ponzis and pyramid schemes.

I would suggest contacting lauda about this. He ran the bounty campaign of this what should have been obvious ponzi.

Was it Lauda or aTriz managing it? I know that they both were part of ALU services, while Lauda still is.

[dogetalk]

@SKRAAA - read OP again. You are misleading readers and potential investors!

There was no adequate buyback for ROCK1 Token as the promised in May! Period!

OP, you are the most misinformed here! Your accusations against SKRAAA are totally wrong!

OP has no sense he is writing about, he is just ignoring the truth. Only being rude to IceRock and then get kicked off their telegram channel is only blamed to the behaviour of OP. The reason questions getting deleted on telegram is they are dumb and offending. Coming in shout it is a scam will be only result you get kicked off.

SKRAAA is right, there were payouts and IceRock declared it, everyone can seet it and ask users from first phase. There were delays, but all problems get solved. The team is very honest, but if you are rude it is your problem.

Regardless of whatever the buyback situation currently is with the ROCK1 and ROCK2 token (although I'm in favor of the OP here), I think that we can all agree on the fact that Ice Rock Mining is shady at best as a organization.

They literally guarantee you making over 300% per year off your investment, and I fail to see how that can be done without running a ponzi scheme of some sort. Perhaps they'll just pull off the scam as soon as the ICO ends, even.

If they are indeed kicking people out from telegram, then that's another sign of a scam. But honestly, what's on their site alone and their promises should already be enough to say that it's a con.

You are misinformed too, please do your own reserch on every channel avaible. Then you'll see it's not a scam and first phase is already running.

They literally guarantee you making over 300% per year off your investment, and I fail to see how that can be done without running a ponzi scheme of some sort.

Only Ponzis can claim Guaranteed returns, because they know that won't be paying it anyway. The OP is correct, the argument that some tokens were bought back doesn't hold water as it might be simply to keep the Ponzi running and to get more investors. It's funny how people continue to get scammed in these schemes; I personally know a few people who were burned in BitConnect and still continue to invest in these. Some people never learn.

Please compare business model of BitConnect to IceRock. There is nothing but only promises (BitConnect) versus mining operations you can see (IceRock)

[dogetalk]

I would suggest contacting lauda about this. He ran the bounty campaign of this what should have been obvious ponzi.

I think it was aTriz: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2196095.0

You can't say it's an obvious ponzi, not yet and not in the past.

[Quickseller]

I would suggest contacting lauda about this. He ran the bounty campaign of this what should have been obvious ponzi.

I think it was aTriz: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2196095.0

You can't say it's an obvious ponzi, not yet and not in the past.

It is very clearly a ponzi. They are offering 300%+ annual returns; anyone offering these levels of returns are either a ponzi or are otherwise fraudulent.

aTriz was the one who posted the bounty thread, however aTriz posted nearly all of the bounty campaigns managed by ALU. Lauda's role of managing the bounty campaigns was mostly behind the scenes and is equally responsible for running the bounty campaign of this scam. 

[dogetalk]

I would suggest contacting lauda about this. He ran the bounty campaign of this what should have been obvious ponzi.

I think it was aTriz: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2196095.0

You can't say it's an obvious ponzi, not yet and not in the past.

It is very clearly a ponzi. They are offering 300%+ annual returns; anyone offering these levels of returns are either a ponzi or are otherwise fraudulent.

aTriz was the one who posted the bounty thread, however aTriz posted nearly all of the bounty campaigns managed by ALU. Lauda's role of managing the bounty campaigns was mostly behind the scenes and is equally responsible for running the bounty campaign of this scam. 

Thank you for the insight, how the bounty was managed, did aTriz and Lauda get paid from IceRock?

Did you see the pics of IceRock? They have done lots of them from first phase: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKmjn8VvJH4

[Quickseller]

I would suggest contacting lauda about this. He ran the bounty campaign of this what should have been obvious ponzi.

I think it was aTriz: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2196095.0

You can't say it's an obvious ponzi, not yet and not in the past.

It is very clearly a ponzi. They are offering 300%+ annual returns; anyone offering these levels of returns are either a ponzi or are otherwise fraudulent.

aTriz was the one who posted the bounty thread, however aTriz posted nearly all of the bounty campaigns managed by ALU. Lauda's role of managing the bounty campaigns was mostly behind the scenes and is equally responsible for running the bounty campaign of this scam.  

Thank you for the insight, how the bounty was managed, did aTriz and Lauda get paid from IceRock?

Did you see the pics of IceRock? They have done lots of them from first phase: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKmjn8VvJH4

If you assume aTriz and Lauda are not the ones behind ice rock, they were almost certainly paid; people don’t tend to work for free.

I am aware of the “proof” they claim to provide of their mining operation. There are huge gaps after reviewing said “proof”. No modern miner will allow you to triple your initial investment after a year, even with free electricity. The amount of coin a miner will earn will vary based on luck and difficulty, both of which are unpredictable. If Ice rock already is in possession of the miners, then I would question why exactly they need to raise money from investors, especially if they think they will pay for themselves in ~5 months.

I am not surprised that some people that are fairly new to the crypto economy who failed to see these red flags. However to someone like aTriz and lauda who have dealt in the crypto economy for a long time, and have seen similar scams in the past, it should have been obvious that ice rock was in some way fraudulent

[timerland]

-snip-

I think that you're the one that's misinformed here.

Go onto Ice Rock Mining's official site and see for yourself - there is an investment calculator on the front page that clearly says "ROI per year: 321%". If that is true, then it's obviously a ponzi scheme since that kind of returns is simply not sustainable. Otherwise, if this is not a guaranteed return and the actual returns you get is much less, isn't this false/misleading advertising? Either way, they are untrustworthy. Plus, in their FAQ where they attempt to explain how they are able to come up with such huge returns, there is no mention of their investments being not guaranteed.

I wouldn't put any money in that myself, if you want to, that's your own money you're risking at a telltale ponzi.

[dogetalk]

-snip-

I think that you're the one that's misinformed here.

Go onto Ice Rock Mining's official site and see for yourself - there is an investment calculator on the front page that clearly says "ROI per year: 321%". If that is true, then it's obviously a ponzi scheme since that kind of returns is simply not sustainable. Otherwise, if this is not a guaranteed return and the actual returns you get is much less, isn't this false/misleading advertising? Either way, they are untrustworthy. Plus, in their FAQ where they attempt to explain how they are able to come up with such huge returns, there is no mention of their investments being not guaranteed.

I wouldn't put any money in that myself, if you want to, that's your own money you're risking at a telltale ponzi.

Why shoud it be a ponzi? A ponzi has no product.

[tmfp]

A ponzi has no product.

Many ponzis have a notional product or "legit" business activity front.

[tmfp]

From the self modded thread for record:

Q: Will you update the calculator on the website with current difficulty, current price and current ROI?
A: We don't want to update the calculator because it doesn't make sense. It changes all the time.

Or maybe because it suits you fine to pretend that an S9 makes

Profitability per day for 1 ASIC,$30

when the real figure is less than $5 a day right now.

...having exactly 20% on expenses all the time is very unlikely
Reinvesting any residual from the 20% should be the way forward...

Residual?
What residual would that be?
Despite all the noise made about buying vaporware superminers, the fact is that if they ever do start mining, IR will be buying something like S9's. That's what their "white paper" says. It also says "purchase June 1st"....
Calculations can only be made on that basis, otherwise they're not calculations, they're fiction. They can only be made on current prices and difficulty, not freak conditions that prevailed for a short period back months ago.
And just saying

to da moon

about the future price, is BS.

For round figures, an S9 currently mines $5 a day gross income (according to the IR calculator, for a $2300 capital investment. What's the ROI on that?):

50% payout   $2.50
20% reinvest $1
20% op costs $1
10% IRock     $0.50

So, operating costs are allowed $1 per day per S9 in total, that's electricity, manpower, maintenance, security, etc.etc.?  
An S9, even at $0.03 Kw/h, uses more than that in electricity alone....
So who/what pays the wages of the Director, Technical Director and 4 Technical Support workers listed in the WP as part of the operating costs paid out of the 20%, when all the 20% (and more) is taken up with electricity bills alone?

50 cents a day per machine for the "management team"?
So, $500 a day per 1,000 S9's to split among how many management people? I stopped counting at twelve.....

Tl,dr: The financial projections in the White Paper and the "calculator", and Ice Rock's refusal to use a simple, accurate, dynamic version, are fraudulent fantasy.

[Quickseller]

Anyone who has a generally basic understanding of how mining works (and the economics behind mining), will reasonably know that IceRock has no way of reliably generating the returns they promise solely via a mining operation. The variables of the difficulty and the price of the crypto being mined cannot be controlled, and if they vary enough from the underlying assumptions (against the miner), profitability will be lower than what is promised.


I believe their target audience/market was those who do not understanding the economics behind mining, and those who only know that in the past mining has generated fairly decent returns for miners.