GOT electric shocked by the BFL Jalapeno or his AC adapter?

[benny1hk]

TODAY IS 1/12, UTC+8

I WOKE UP AND MY HOUSE IS TRIPPED!

I trace back to my PC and it cannot start, i found the problem is the MB

when i was pulling out the cable, i get shocked by the USB cable from both Jalapeno!

now my BITBURNER is also not working, because they are with the same hub!

http://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1472782_10153499628905184_918095915_n.jpg

I AM NOT KIDDING, BLF YOU JUST KILLED ALL MY ASIC MINING RIG!

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[Red_Wolf_2]

Theres a few issues with this... The main one being the PSU only supplies about 13v. The second is that you are measuring that from the shield of the usb cable, if active was shorted to the ground something would have completely melted/caught fire.

Check the whole setup very, very carefully.

[benny1hk]

I am sure the PSU is the problem, because i read 13.3V from the DC plug(that's okay).
But i also shocked by outer of the plug.

i know this will happen to some laptop PSU without connect its V- to the earth.

Can any one refer me to a thread that have to same issus?

http://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/p206x206/1450064_10153499755960184_1986583924_n.jpg

[Red_Wolf_2]

If its anything like the PSU I got with my jalapenos, I'm guessing it doesn't have an earth pin, so the transient could register as 120v, but with incredibly low current (as with laptops).

I get that happening quite often when measuring differential between devices powered with separate power supplies, usually it doesn't cause any issues with the devices though. If the machine is still ok, try powering the jalapenos from its 12v line instead and see what happens.

[benny1hk]

i just read a post from BLF forum

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/post-sales-customer-service/5840-bf0005g-blows-circuit-breakers-my-house-why-2.html

okay, i am not the only one.

F**K

Jalapeno no, bitburner no! and my pc mainboard seems too

[benny1hk]

anyone?

[lightfoot]

The power supply is shorted internally and passing 120 volts directly to the ring. I'd replace it.

This can happen with non-isolated power supplies. Rare but not impossible.

Also check your outlet, it's possible some yabo wired it backwards so neutral is hot.

C

[Gator-hex]

Any power supply designed for 120v US power will self destruct when plugged into Europe/Honk Kong 220-240v mains after a few hours.

It's probably the self destruction/melting process that created the short.

This is why we have PAT in the UK because shit like this happens. http://www.pat-testing.info/

[lightfoot]

Any power supply designed for 120v US power will self destruct when plugged into Europe/Honk Kong 220-240v mains after a few hours.

It's probably the self destruction/melting process that created the short.

This is why we have PAT in the UK because shit like this happens. http://www.pat-testing.info/

I wonder why? I've plugged 120 volt devices into the 240 outlets here without problems, makes the power supply a bit more efficient in some cases. Switching mode supplies should not fail.

Edit: Update: I didn't see you were on 240v ring power. That negates my thought on the outlet. Weird, looks like it went to ground, did the jally self-destruct as well?
Odd.

[benny1hk]

okay, i come back

These PSU is marked for 120-240VAC. So couldn't be any human fault.

i have two of these china made PSU, the faulty one is leaking current enough to let me feel it passing through my finger, the other one doesnt. If you have a Macbook psu, you will know what i am saying, but it is much more stronger.

it also have a burn plastic smell, I think the capacitor in the ac input had been broken through. Basically it is a low QC PSU an I am not the only victim, i think any user like me should claim BFL for reparation.

[HellDiverUK]

Only use for the BFL PSU is a ready source for the 12v power cable.  Hacked that off, wired to a molex connector, plugged in to the ATX PSU that's powering all the rest of my mining gear.

[benny1hk]

diy conntects are made, but the rig is dead.

[benny1hk]

Ok what now?
I got another friend from HONG KONG 220V also tripped the home power, he got lucky with one Jalapeno and the PSU damaged.

Our RMA request had been sent but BLF is not replying us, think they might be in the HAPPY holiday:0)

[lightfoot]

By the way, I think you identified what has been killing jallies with USB failures and the rest of the unit working.

Nice job. Hey, by the way are computers in the UK all grounded as a matter of course?

Fixing it will be a bitch though; I think I know what and how to fix, but since jallies seem to be worth more dead than alive I'll let it be.

:-)

[HellDiverUK]

Hey, by the way are computers in the UK all grounded as a matter of course?

Mostly.

[lightfoot]

Ok. Here is what is happening to all the jallies:

What I think is happening here based on a lot of research this weekend is that the power supplies are failing in such a way that they put the voltage on the jally's negative side. Specifically I am guessing they have a cap between the primary voltage and secondary to improve the rather crummy power factor. Now eurpoeans use 240 volts, which is 120 volts on either side of a common ground, each leg 180 out of phase. The problem is when you drop ground, the device is charged with 120 volts.

Normally this would blow a fuse, but the jally is not grounded, it's a two wire connection. So it's ground plane (including the USB) goes hot. However your PC is, and I'll bet that your PC's USB cable is tied to ground to keep you from getting electrocuted when you take your iphone into the tub while it's plugged into your PC. That's nice. But when you plug a jally that has a hot USB to your grounded computer, 120 volts goes through the USB circuits on the jally and blows them open. Would also blow out a "smart" hub if that was in the way.

Doesn't blow your computer since it's the ground. Your computer ok, your jally go foom, you go waah...

See?

So.... Fixing this would be a bitch on wheels. My guess is the FTDI chip at least is toast, plus possibly the ATMEL chip's serial FIFO buffers. That's why the rest of the thing comes up but you can't communicate. At best the FTDI is reporting garbage.

Worth fixing? Maybe. But not when you pay more for the unit than it's worth. And even for someone who owns one, if the thing will only hash $200 worth of bitcoin how much could you charge to fix it?

Who'se at fault? Well, BFL maybe for sending out crappy power supplies. Ok, so they RMA. Now in a perfect we have infinite amounts of money world then one could have put in optoisolators on the USB segment, but they didn't. Who does? No one normally. We do this on 300+ volt electric car power drive systems because there's nothing as hilarious as a 300 volt 1000 amp short to ground in a car. Ok, maybe there are other things, but I don't want to know about them.

Regardless, someone is going to get bitten by a blown power supply; they don't seem to fail safe (shut down) when the caps fail. However since the cases are not grounded I think it would take someone taking their jally into a bath to kill them. Note I have NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT, these are simply observations.

But it would explain why most of the failures are european. In the US, the 120 volts is hot/neutral with neutral bonded to ground at the breaker. A jally doing this in the US would either immediately blow up the power supply and breaker, or would have the neutral tied to the 12 volts which is tied to ground anyway. If someone had their outlet wired backwards (NEC code fail of the highest order) *and* plugged it into a grounded computer on another (properly wired and grounded) circuit *and* had the cap short (which is probably does less often due to the lower voltage) then this might happen. But that is rather unlikely.

Solution?

Buy a USB optoisolator. Use an isolation transformer, not just a UPS (think 40 pounds of iron weight). Use a better power supply. That sort of thing.

Now, everyone can tip me for this answer for saving everyone's precious jalapenos that are worth oh so much. 5% would be good :-)

[infamousdutch]

Is there any reason why they wouldn't ground the jally?  That just seems careless to me, but I'm a software guy.

[lightfoot]

Is there any reason why they wouldn't ground the jally?  That just seems careless to me, but I'm a software guy.

It's not a device permanently plugged into the mains. It has two wires, it's like a walkman. It's not a desktop computer.

The power supply is supposed to prevent this, but thanks to a conflusion of events I think it goes foom.

C

[benny1hk]

Ok. Here is what is happening to all the jallies:
....
Now, everyone can tip me for this answer for saving everyone's precious jalapenos that are worth oh so much. 5% would be good :-)

You said it completely correct. My rig was connected to PC with a long wire of USB extension, and the extension is the only way to the Real ground. Long wire increases the resistance and made the MCB did not trip easily, so it had an amount of time to blow my motherboard before the MCB triggered.

To temperately avoid this, don't connect to you PC?!(of coz its the easiest way),1.
1. your can buy a rPi.
2. tight the jalaes shield to the wall ground.
3. just buy a regular computer PSU, or any better performance PSU (without Made in China)


Is there any reason why they wouldn't ground the jally?  That just seems careless to me, but I'm a software guy.
A: in country with 3pins 220/240v the middle pin is gound, so the 2pin's doesnt have it.
    so, you either use all 3pins or just all 2pins.

[lightfoot]

Benny, question: Could you check voltages between your plug's power, neutral, and ground to ground? I'm wondering if it's 120/120/ground or 240/0/gnd? Also are you in the UK, Netherlands, on a ring circuit, and is your incoming power 3 phase or split phase 240?

Thanks!