KNC Miner

[repairguy]

I am suspicions about KnC. They have a good product with a good design and the units are fairly efficient compared to what else is out there. They really have the top of the market.  Why on earth are they abandoning it for a new preorder product?? I also see they have discontinued use of paypal.  It makes no sense to me.  A KnC Jupiter is going for $20k.  They have everything already, just make some more!! Why do all the mfg feel they need to screw everyone around with preorder crap!

[1715328156]

1715328156

[rammy2k2]

because some people, not my case, can afford to loose 10-20k ... or more 

[Sitarow]

Hardware is hard to get it seems.

Many have their reasons to pay these prices.

I myself have 2 on order.

[repairguy]

Maybe it is just me, but I think it is stupid.  I agree that they need to keep innovating to keep up with the pace, but you don't see Samsung stop selling the galaxy 3 so they can work on the design for the galaxy 4.
asicminer is the only company that has a decent business plan. They make blades just as fast as humanly possible, and sell the shit out of them, and they are old and inefficient 130nm.

Then KNC has a preorder for a new 20nm design.  They could gain the capital for r&d just by selling the product they already made!!!  The only reason it would make sense to me to do this is if they question the outcome of the 20nm product.  If you are confident in your product, invest your own money for a greater profit on success.

[repairguy]

Hardware is hard to get it seems.

Many have their reasons to pay these prices.

I myself have 2 on order.

I am not arguing the prices.  They are a little high, but btc is high.  KNC could sell as many as they wanted of the Jupiters for 13k each.

550gh in hand for 13k or 3th preorder for 13k,
the unit in hand will win every time.

asic blades are going for 600each that would be 33k for 550gh worth of blades.

[Sitarow]

Hardware is hard to get it seems.

Many have their reasons to pay these prices.

I myself have 2 on order.

I am not arguing the prices.  They are a little high, but btc is high.  KNC could sell as many as they wanted of the Jupiters for 13k each.

550gh in hand for 13k or 3th preorder for 13k,
the unit in hand will win every time.

asic blades are going for 600each that would be 33k for 550gh worth of blades.

Your reasoning is sound. Yet consider that they wish to use the skilled and now experienced human resources to work on the next gen hardware.

[Cheshyr]

I would guess, and this is only a guess, that there is a significant manual portion to the manufacturing, and they have a resource limitation somewhere...  either in manpower, or space, or a specific component, or trust with bringing other people into the operation.  I agree that it's a missed opportunity when a company stops selling to R&D their next units.  It also seems to be the norm, which is a little baffling.  The "limited manpower" angle is the direction I'm leaning.

[Biffa]

Because its evolve or die, if KnC don't move to 20nm and more powerful rigs then they will be left in the dust.

Basic business sense.

Apparently ASICminer V1 and V2 blades are EOL and will no longer be made, the last batches are being done now the next ones will be v3 on a new tech. The only way to get new V2 tech at the moment is if you buy a cube.

And you can't compare something like mobile phones where they make millions of the things, Samsung did stop making the Galaxy 3 once they launched the Galaxy 4. They just had so many G3's made and in the distribution channel that it "appears" like they kept on making it.

[rammy2k2]

Because its evolve or die, if KnC don't move to 20nm and more powerful rigs then they will be left in the dust.

Basic business sense.

Apparently V1 and V2 blades are EOL and will no longer be made, the last batches are being done now the next ones will be v3 on a new tech. The only way to get new V2 tech at the moment is if you buy a cube.

And you can't compare something like mobile phones where they make millions of the things, Samsung did stop making the Galaxy 3 once they launched the Galaxy 4. They just had so many G3's made and in the distribution channel that it "appears" like they kept on making it.

KNC dosent produce blades

[Gator-hex]

If you are confident in your product, invest your own money for a greater profit on success.

They did hint this was the last retail product which probably means they make 14nm for themselves.

Because its evolve or die, if KnC don't move to 20nm and more powerful rigs then they will be left in the dust.

Basic business sense.

Agree, they have no competition on the 28nm node!

If your business was retail, you keep selling what sells, until your competition catches up, and takes your market share.

The only reason you don't is that this is redundant stock you no longer use! In other words they are mining on the 20nm node.

This one of the flaws with Bitcoin, it allows a small elite to own the printing press.

[Biffa]

Because its evolve or die, if KnC don't move to 20nm and more powerful rigs then they will be left in the dust.

Basic business sense.

Apparently V1 and V2 blades are EOL and will no longer be made, the last batches are being done now the next ones will be v3 on a new tech. The only way to get new V2 tech at the moment is if you buy a cube.

And you can't compare something like mobile phones where they make millions of the things, Samsung did stop making the Galaxy 3 once they launched the Galaxy 4. They just had so many G3's made and in the distribution channel that it "appears" like they kept on making it.

KNC dosent produce blades

We were talking about ASICMiner blades, keep up 

[Biffa]

If you are confident in your product, invest your own money for a greater profit on success.

They did hint this was the last retail product which probably means they make 14nm for themselves.

Because its evolve or die, if KnC don't move to 20nm and more powerful rigs then they will be left in the dust.

Basic business sense.

Agree, they have no competition on the 28nm node!

If you have any business sense you keep selling what sells until your competition catches up and takes your market share.

The only reason you don't is that this is redundant stock you no longer use! I.E. you are mining on the 20nm node.

Perhaps they are concerned about how close their competition are to launch, and want to be ready to blow them away ASAP. Better to stop what you are doing now and focus your energy on the next evolution.

I don't know, I don't work for them, however they aren't Samsung or someone that has enormous amounts of production capacity, heck they don't have the buying power or manufacturing power to make the components they need by themselves. They actually  bought the entire worlds supply of the VRM modules for Batch1 and had to switch (luckily to something more efficient) for Batch2.

I'm not saying that its not impossible for them to keep on selling Jupiter level hardware and continuing to make money, anything is possible if there is a will. Its not even that they don't have the manpower or resources to both sell, build and ship more of the 28nm designs, although tbh their ordering and back end systems and resources are at breaking point as it is from what I have seen/experienced etc.

I think its deeper than that, I think that there are multiple factors, some of which might be listed above, I think its a bit of a balancing act. I think its also about making a 3TH feel affordable while difficulty levels aren't stratospheric. Theres probably even a little bit of techy geekness in there about being the first to 20nm, about creating something better than and before the competition does. It may even be possible that they want to control the hash rate of the network to a certain degree, again making it more attractive for future buyers to be offered something that stands half a chance of making money.

But to be fair I don't think the OP gives a monkeys about KnCs business practice, all they want is a 600Gh/s miner because they missed out and are kicking themselves because of it.

[MZD]

I don't see how anyone could break even with a Neptune shipped in Q2....

[ASIC-K]

I don't see how anyone could break even with a Neptune shipped in Q2....

i assume you are using the genesis block calculator.....lol

[Wesly]

I am suspicions about KnC. They have a good product with a good design and the units are fairly efficient compared to what else is out there. They really have the top of the market.  Why on earth are they abandoning it for a new preorder product?? I also see they have discontinued use of paypal.  It makes no sense to me.  A KnC Jupiter is going for $20k.  They have everything already, just make some more!! Why do all the mfg feel they need to screw everyone around with preorder crap!

The answer is pretty simple, KnC is simply keeping their promise made in July by their Network Protection Statement of not shipping any device in December 2013, January 2014 and February 2014 to give their customers a positive return on their KnC miners so they will buy from them again.  That might change if their main competitors (HashFast and CoinTerra) finally started shipping in large quantity in January/February.  But for now their existing customers will enjoy a nice return while new customer can always skip this generation and pre-order the Neptune.  You can always cancel your order if KnC is late.  Use my reseller link below when you order to receive an additional free 240Gh hashing.  See my Q&A tag link if you have any question.



  

[Sitarow]

I don't see how anyone could break even with a Neptune shipped in Q2....

I suppose it depends on the amount of BTC you could of had if you just buy and hold.

Here is a screen shot of a document that I have


Notice that IF... the network difficulty rises at 20% ever 12 days. Then the Neptune gives out BTC a day close to that of a Jupiter today.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeuPljmUNHCdEpqX2RmMDFwemJyLURVUWFtZ3J3aGc&usp=sharing

Edit:

Seems they are selling.

[ASIC-K]

I don't see how anyone could break even with a Neptune shipped in Q2....

I suppose it depends on the amount of BTC you could of had if you just buy and hold.

Here is a screen shot of a document that I have


Notice that IF... the network difficulty rises at 20% ever 12 days. Then the Neptune gives out BTC a day close to that of a Jupiter today.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeuPljmUNHCdEpqX2RmMDFwemJyLURVUWFtZ3J3aGc&usp=sharing

Edit:

Seems they are selling.

that number doesnt mean much....they reset that thing all the time.....

[Sitarow]

True, however it does show that they are being ordered and paid for.

[ASIC-K]

True, however it does show that they are being ordered and paid for.

ordered = yes....paid for = no

[Sitarow]

True, however it does show that they are being ordered and paid for.

ordered = yes....paid for = no

Not sure. I and other purchasers who had placed an order had noticed that the 1500 never budged even after paying with btc.

It only went down once the the order status moved to paid.

[Wesly]

Not sure. I and other purchasers who had placed an order had noticed that the 1500 never budged even after paying with btc.

It only went down once the the order status moved to paid.

The description said "Limited batch of 1200 units", I wonder if the true quantity for this 2nd batch is 1200 or 1500?

[Charles999]

That's what I am wondering too!

What's the story??  1200 or 1500

Not sure. I and other purchasers who had placed an order had noticed that the 1500 never budged even after paying with btc.

It only went down once the the order status moved to paid.

The description said "Limited batch of 1200 units", I wonder if the true quantity for this 2nd batch is 1200 or 1500?

[DPoS]

I thought everyone here are geniuses

IF everyone who put a Neptune in the cart paid for it then of course they could limit it on the site to 1200..   remember KNC is evil since you can put 10 in your cart and come back 3 months from now and say you want to buy one and then cry when they say they are out of stock..  but but but it was ordered!!!  whaaaaaa!!!

[edgar]

no geniuses here, just a very few fortunate souls who'd be delighted for strangers to consider them 'smart'

and the rest of us, who are all 'trolls' or 'cry babies'

...NOVEMBER rigs?

[repairguy]

Hardware is hard to get it seems.

Many have their reasons to pay these prices.

I myself have 2 on order.

I am not arguing the prices.  They are a little high, but btc is high.  KNC could sell as many as they wanted of the Jupiters for 13k each.

550gh in hand for 13k or 3th preorder for 13k,
the unit in hand will win every time.

asic blades are going for 600each that would be 33k for 550gh worth of blades.

Your reasoning is sound. Yet consider that they wish to use the skilled and now experienced human resources to work on the next gen hardware.

Absolutely, they should have their team R&D on the new tech.  However there team didn't actually build the machines.  Some factory that builds custom hardware did. Likely in china.  KNC handed them a blueprint and they started turning them out.

[repairguy]

Because its evolve or die, if KnC don't move to 20nm and more powerful rigs then they will be left in the dust.

Basic business sense.

Apparently ASICminer V1 and V2 blades are EOL and will no longer be made, the last batches are being done now the next ones will be v3 on a new tech. The only way to get new V2 tech at the moment is if you buy a cube.

And you can't compare something like mobile phones where they make millions of the things, Samsung did stop making the Galaxy 3 once they launched the Galaxy 4. They just had so many G3's made and in the distribution channel that it "appears" like they kept on making it.

Yes, I am not arguing that they must work on new tech, but I would think if you had developed a product that worked great and was in high demand, you would continue to make it.  That is basic business sense.

If you are thinking that knc would loose progress on the new tech by continuing to mfg 28nm that is just wrong.  The people who research, develop and design are not the same that manufacture.

[repairguy]

But to be fair I don't think the OP gives a monkeys about KnCs business practice, all they want is a 600Gh/s miner because they missed out and are kicking themselves because of it.

My primary point can be broken down into a few smaller related points.

KNC previously accepted paypal.

Most paypal issues come when you have a product more than 90 days out, they claim it will be available in about 90, so what is the paypal problem? (Please keep in mind I despise paypal, but the Buyer protection is worth it in unknown deals)

I would assume they made good profit on the first round.

They could sell the product they already made (known good), but choose not to.

I would assume they have cash on hand for r&d, so they don't need preorder money for r&d.

These items together make me reluctant to trust them because I would assume they have other options, but choose not to use them. If they would use Escrow with btc I would be happy.

I would order a ton of these if I could trust them, but the items listed above make me suspicious.  That is my point.

[repairguy]

I am suspicions about KnC. They have a good product with a good design and the units are fairly efficient compared to what else is out there. They really have the top of the market.  Why on earth are they abandoning it for a new preorder product?? I also see they have discontinued use of paypal.  It makes no sense to me.  A KnC Jupiter is going for $20k.  They have everything already, just make some more!! Why do all the mfg feel they need to screw everyone around with preorder crap!

The answer is pretty simple, KnC is simply keeping their promise made in July by their Network Protection Statement of not shipping any device in December 2013, January 2014 and February 2014 to give their customers a positive return on their KnC miners so they will buy from them again.  That might change if their main competitors (HashFast and CoinTerra) finally started shipping in large quantity in January/February.  But for now their existing customers will enjoy a nice return while new customer can always skip this generation and pre-order the Neptune.  You can always cancel your order if KnC is late.  Use my reseller link below when you order to receive an additional free 240Gh hashing.  See my Q&A tag link if you have any question.



   

Now that explained part of my suspicions very well.  I tip my hat to them for this.


But why did they discontinue paypal?  They are 3mo out and that is within paypals guidelines.

Do they plan to offer escrow?

[DPoS]

But why did they discontinue paypal?  They are 3mo out and that is within paypals guidelines.

Do they plan to offer escrow?

why give paypal a cut when they already proved themselves as a reliable company?

[repairguy]

why give paypal a cut when they already proved themselves as a reliable company?

For continued piece of mind,  I would be glad to pay the extra percentage if they accepted it.

[edgar]

paypal deserve a cut if they are able to enforce KnC's empty promises public statements

presumably PayPal were 'too strict' and KnC prefer to have the ability to flat out ignore any disgruntled investdurrs.

how long before yet another thread is derailed by the paid off 'support team' & wannabe fangirls/cheerleaders?

[af_newbie]

I am suspicions about KnC. They have a good product with a good design and the units are fairly efficient compared to what else is out there. They really have the top of the market.  Why on earth are they abandoning it for a new preorder product?? I also see they have discontinued use of paypal.  It makes no sense to me.  A KnC Jupiter is going for $20k.  They have everything already, just make some more!! Why do all the mfg feel they need to screw everyone around with preorder crap!

They shift the risk to the buyers.  

Plenty of greedy people will buy their pre-order crap.  Seems like people already forgot BFL, Avalon.  Or maybe we just get a lot of new miners just starting out who don't know any better.

The window to produce more 500GH units is closing fast, so they have to plan the next gen product if they want to stay in business.

[xstr8guy]

Hardware is hard to get it seems.

Many have their reasons to pay these prices.

I myself have 2 on order.

I am not arguing the prices.  They are a little high, but btc is high.  KNC could sell as many as they wanted of the Jupiters for 13k each.

550gh in hand for 13k or 3th preorder for 13k,
the unit in hand will win every time.

asic blades are going for 600each that would be 33k for 550gh worth of blades.

Your reasoning is sound. Yet consider that they wish to use the skilled and now experienced human resources to work on the next gen hardware.

Absolutely, they should have their team R&D on the new tech.  However there team didn't actually build the machines.  Some factory that builds custom hardware did. Likely in china.  KNC handed them a blueprint and they started turning them out.

You obviously know nothing about KNC.  The miners were assembled in Sweden.

[xstr8guy]

I am suspicions about KnC. They have a good product with a good design and the units are fairly efficient compared to what else is out there. They really have the top of the market.  Why on earth are they abandoning it for a new preorder product?? I also see they have discontinued use of paypal.  It makes no sense to me.  A KnC Jupiter is going for $20k.  They have everything already, just make some more!! Why do all the mfg feel they need to screw everyone around with preorder crap!

They shift the risk to the buyers.  

Plenty of greedy people will buy their pre-order crap.  Seems like people already forgot BFL, Avalon.  Or maybe we just get a lot of new miners just starting out who don't know any better.

The window to produce more 500GH units is closing fast, so they have to plan the next gen product if they want to stay in business.

Pre-order crap?  KNC and Bitfury paid off very nicely with their "pre-order crap" (with a little help from the BTC exchange rate, lol).

Enjoy not mining!  You're missing a lot of fun and excitement... and bitcoins.

[repairguy]

You obviously know nothing about KNC.  The miners were assembled in Sweden.

Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. They assembled it.  Screwed the board down to the box and fastened the heat sinks.  Super skilled labor. And time consuming.

[sickpig]

You obviously know nothing about KNC.  The miners were assembled in Sweden.

Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. They assembled it.  Screwed the board down to the box and fastened the heat sinks.  Super skilled labor. And time consuming.

ASIC and PCB design made by OrSoC (a sweden company)

ASICs production outsourced to TSMC

PCBs production/assembly made in Sweden see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ittJ5PQe6IU

[repairguy]

You obviously know nothing about KNC.  The miners were assembled in Sweden.

Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. They assembled it.  Screwed the board down to the box and fastened the heat sinks.  Super skilled labor. And time consuming.

ASIC and PCB design made by OrSoC (a sweden company)

ASICs production outsourced to TSMC

PCBs production/assembly made in Sweden see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ittJ5PQe6IU

I must say that I am impressed that sweden has that kind of resources available.  However you proved my point just as well.  KNC Did not manufacture.

[Vagnavs]

You obviously know nothing about KNC.  The miners were assembled in Sweden.

Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. They assembled it.  Screwed the board down to the box and fastened the heat sinks.  Super skilled labor. And time consuming.

ASIC and PCB design made by OrSoC (a sweden company)

ASICs production outsourced to TSMC

PCBs production/assembly made in Sweden see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ittJ5PQe6IU

I must say that I am impressed that sweden has that kind of resources available.  However you proved my point just as well.  KNC Did not manufacture.

okay, the machines did it. It wasn't done all my hand. Watch the video and learn

[Biffa]

so... anyone here with notvember rig/s?

wondering about the grey sponge thing between the heatsink & 2 VRMS...

leave in or remove?

I've left mine in, mainly because I can't be arsed to open it up.