Residential Limit 15amp or 20amp?

[lightfoot]

By the way, you're also forgetting about power factor. Crappy power supplies have a PF of .5 or so which means you're pulling a lot more volt-amps than if you had a better supply with a .8 or .9 PF rating. volt-amps are not quite the same thing as watts, and volt-amps are what generate heat in lines.

So.... Make sure you get good power supplies. The crappy BFL supplies have a PF of only .6, my Corsair is over .9. Oh and if you can, run your supplies on 240 volts, more efficient. Actually if you can get 3 phase and run 208 volts to your stuff.

C

[1714812891]

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[1714812891]

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[zedicus]

By the way, you're also forgetting about power factor. Crappy power supplies have a PF of .5 or so which means you're pulling a lot more volt-amps than if you had a better supply with a .8 or .9 PF rating. volt-amps are not quite the same thing as watts, and volt-amps are what generate heat in lines.

So.... Make sure you get good power supplies. The crappy BFL supplies have a PF of only .6, my Corsair is over .9. Oh and if you can, run your supplies on 240 volts, more efficient. Actually if you can get 3 phase and run 208 volts to your stuff.

C

Hey thanks for your input!! Currently im rocking 2x 1000 evga gold series power supplies as well as one corsair ax-1200..

So 4 280x's on the 1200 and then 3x a piece on the 2 evga power supplies.. Currently hunting for an electrician that fits my budget  ..

Not gonna brave the panel.. just gonna do the homerun.


http://www.corsair.com/professional-series-gold-ax1200-80-plus-gold-certified-fully-modular-power-supply.html
http://www.evga.com/Products/product.aspx?pn=120-g2-1000-xr

[Pentium100]

I currently have 20A on a 230V circuit (I live in the EU). I am currently in the process of getting three phase link - then I'll have 3x20A. Depending on the cable from the power company to my house, I may even be able to increase the power at a later date (or start using 400V power supplies to reduce the current).

By the way, you're also forgetting about power factor. Crappy power supplies have a PF of .5 or so which means you're pulling a lot more volt-amps than if you had a better supply with a .8 or .9 PF rating. volt-amps are not quite the same thing as watts, and volt-amps are what generate heat in lines.

Power factor is a compromise. PSUs with low PF use more current (so you can't run as many miners/etc), but active PFC can result in the power supply blowing up (I have repaired a couple of PSUs after they blew up because of active PFC). I guess passive PFC would be the way to go - better power factor, but no increased risk of blowing up.

[claygraffix]

Anyway, long day here in Brownbackistan; the new name for Kansas since we now have an idiot for a governor.

Check you later!

I'm in Wichita, how about you?

Ohh... and Brownie isn't an idiot.........  He's just insane..............

Hey, i'm also in Wichita.  Just got a 3mh/s rig setup and thinking about another.  Reading through this thread to figure out where I'd put it in the basement.  Whenever my miners change pools I can see the lights flicker and the box fan cooling them gets faster for a sec

My main PC is also plugged into the same room, so I may separate those too.  Lot's to learn about electricity.

[lightfoot]

Side note: My chili and big miner (the 20gh jally) are both running on the Corsair power supply. Power factor is well over .91, which is an exceptional improvement of the .5 from the crap-o BFL supply and .6 from the crap-o 300 watt ATX supply.

So there you go.

[TinkerTom]

So here's where I wound up. I have a contractor coming later this week to run a 50 amp circuit to a new sub panel in the basement. In that panel he'll put a 30A 240 and 20A 120.

I ordered this for the PDU: APC AP7941 Rack PDU. There was a seller with a used one for $50 (+15 shipping) on Amazon. I like the fact I can view the amps drawn and manage it through a web interface.

Then I'll have two of these that will go from the PDU to the machines: Tripp Lite ISOBAR4/220 Isobar Surge Protector Metal 230V 4 Outlet. So each will have 2 machines on it (4 miners total).

This should let me overclock (if possible), from out of the box 1050W to +20% = 1260W / 240V = 5.25 amps * 4 machines, 21 amps out of 24A sustained rating on 30A circuit. That's only if I can get them all OCd, but at least the headroom's there.

This will leave me with a 20A circuit if I need a cooler or for expansion. Thanks for the help here, let me know if I'm blowing it somewhere!

[repairguy]

Please also consider you may need to derate conductors based on length or ambient temperature.

[ScaryHash]

Wiring heats up, and copper's conductivity actually DECREASES as temperature is increased, leading to more heating up, feedback loop = fire.

So, like other people on this thread have said, do not run more than 80% of rated power draw continuously.

If the circuit was built right, everything up to spec, it should be able to handle it, but, we all know that residential houses are all built by the lowest bidder, with the cheapest components available.

So, running more than 1100 W on a 15 A 120 V circuit, you're asking for trouble.

I now I ran into that problem also, which is why I sold off some mining gear. I simply did not have enough power to run it safely, and the extension cords from other circuits in the house were getting really annoying.

[zedicus]

So here's where I wound up. I have a contractor coming later this week to run a 50 amp circuit to a new sub panel in the basement. In that panel he'll put a 30A 240 and 20A 120.

I ordered this for the PDU: APC AP7941 Rack PDU. There was a seller with a used one for $50 (+15 shipping) on Amazon. I like the fact I can view the amps drawn and manage it through a web interface.

Then I'll have two of these that will go from the PDU to the machines: Tripp Lite ISOBAR4/220 Isobar Surge Protector Metal 230V 4 Outlet. So each will have 2 machines on it (4 miners total).

This should let me overclock (if possible), from out of the box 1050W to +20% = 1260W / 240V = 5.25 amps * 4 machines, 21 amps out of 24A sustained rating on 30A circuit. That's only if I can get them all OCd, but at least the headroom's there.

This will leave me with a 20A circuit if I need a cooler or for expansion. Thanks for the help here, let me know if I'm blowing it somewhere!

Man nice pdu!

i had i guy come out and when he opened the door to my panel it sparked everywhere and the power went out! Turns out i had a loose breaker which had defective coupler or what ever hold its into place...

After he opened it he said there is not room for any more breakers and i would need a sub panel or a new panel.


All in all i lost a 15 amp breaker and all that was on there got moved to a 20amp breaker that the garage door was running on. He said the Oven was on a 50amp and i looked at him and he started laughing! He said i should probably talk the other people in the house before i have him haul the oven away! LOL

He was just a contractor that was in the neighborhood doing me a solid so now at least i know i need a new panel or a sub panel.  

PDU and outlets just came.. Got the 10guage line too..  Just a bit brick walled with this panel issue. I gotta find out the costs of swapping to larger panels or adding a sub. Anyone know?

By the way i found i have 100-125 amp service by calling the power company!

 

 

[repairguy]

Panel change out here with a new 200amp service runs 2500-2900. Could be more if your installation is a pain in the ass.  Depending on the brand and model of panel you have you could use some tandem breakers to free up some space.  

Do you have an electric hot water heater? Is it in the basement?  Replace the breaker feeding your water heater with a 60amp to feed a sub panel, then feed your water heater from the sub panel.

You could do the same with any of the circuits in your house, the water heater is usually the handiest 240v to access in the basement.

[zedicus]

Panel change out here with a new 200amp service runs 2500-2900. Could be more if your installation is a pain in the ass.  Depending on the brand and model of panel you have you could use some tandem breakers to free up some space. 

Do you have an electric hot water heater? Is it in the basement?  Replace the breaker feeding your water heater with a 60amp to feed a sub panel, then feed your water heater from the sub panel.

You could do the same with any of the circuits in your house, the water heater is usually the handiest 240v to access in the basement.

Holy crap! $3k! I wasnt expecting that..
I hope just adding a sub panel is cheaper.

Not sure about my water heater.. ill look in the morning.

[repairguy]

Holy crap! $3k! I wasnt expecting that..
I hope just adding a sub panel is cheaper.

Not sure about my water heater.. ill look in the morning.

Yep, It may be different where you live, but the electricians here were smart.  Electrical work is the only protected construction trade.  Anyone can decide one day they want to install gas lines and they are in business, but not electrical.  It ruins competition.  In all fact, that 2900 install has maybe 800 in materials and 10 hours of labor. It is bullshit, but you don't have a choice.

[zedicus]

I was hoping to find and electrician friend of mine but he comes up missing 3-5 months at a time because he has a serious gambling problem. He has a thing for Pai Gow.. I may call his wife to see if she can hunt him down for me. Last time i got him in trouble so im being patient..

Thanks for the price guide btw! Good to know what im dealing with!

[af_newbie]

Maybe home builders should get on it.  We have dining rooms, powder rooms, baby rooms, reading rooms....

I think it is time they put in "computer data center rooms", with 100A panels, independent AC, home automation panels etc.

[repairguy]

Maybe home builders should get on it.  We have dining rooms, powder rooms, baby rooms, reading rooms....

I think it is time they put in "computer data center rooms", with 100A panels, independent AC, home automation panels etc.

Lol, Houses are build with the cheapest material by the lowest bidder.  That isn't likely.

[DontMineMe]

Thank you all for the info. Very valuable for noobs like myself.

Just to make sure I understand it correctly; I run dedicated 30 amp 240v w/10 awg line with l6 30p outlet. I buy pdu rated 30 amp with l6 30p  (24 de rated ) like the APC 9571A and I am good for 5k watt right?

My circuit breaker has  2 spaces empty next to each other but I am not sure what is the total power coming in to the house.

Also, standard ATX psu in the US is rated to use 240v ? I know that all my three rigs are hooked to 120v outlets right now.

[repairguy]

Thank you all for the info. Very valuable for noobs like myself.

Just to make sure I understand it correctly; I run dedicated 30 amp 240v w/10 awg line with l6 30p outlet. I buy pdu rated 30 amp with l6 30p  (24 de rated ) like the APC 9571A and I am good for 5k watt right?

My circuit breaker has  2 spaces empty next to each other but I am not sure what is the total power coming in to the house.

Also, standard ATX psu in the US is rated to use 240v ? I know that all my three rigs are hooked to 120v outlets right now.

5.76kw, and two spaces next to each other usually means you can get 240v.  Some GE panels have 2 spaces before it changes legs.  If you install the breaker and it shows ~240v between poles you are good to go, If it shows 0v then rearrange the breakers to move it down one space.

The power supply may have a switch on the back to switch it from 120v to 240v. If it doesn't have a switch look at the label and check that the voltage range goes to 240v and hook it up.

[DontMineMe]

Thanks for the quick reply. I appreciate it repairguy

[Unacceptable]

A lot of good advice here  

BUT,I didn't see any mention of AWG amp limits mentioned:

Same amp limits @ 120 volt or 220 volt.

14 AWG=15 amps or 120 volt 1800=watts-20%=1440 watts useable/220 volt=3300 watts- 20%=2640 watts useable

12 AWG=25 amps or 120 volts 3000=watts-20%=2400 watts useable/220 volt=5500 watts-20%=4400 watts useable

10 AWG=40 amps or 120 volt  4800=watts-20%=3840 watts useable/220 volts=8800 watts-20%=7040 watts useable

8 AWG=60 amps or 120 volt  7200=watts-20%=5760 watts useable/220 volts=13200 watts-20%=10560 watts useable

Get some 6 inch pieces of different gauge wire from home depot & pull the cover off the breaker panel & just hold a piece of sample wire near the wire going into the breaker until you have a match.

DO NOT TOUCH ANY WIRES OR OTHER PARTS,YOU MAY GET SHOCKED.Just a CYA  

THESE ARE ESTIMATES,CHECK WITH AN ELECTRICIAN FIRST!!!!!

[repairguy]

A lot of good advice here 

BUT,I didn't see any mention of AWG amp limits mentioned:

Same amp limits @ 120 volt or 220 volt.

14 AWG=15 amps or 120 volt 1800=watts-20%=1440 watts useable/220 volt=3300 watts- 20%=2640 watts useable

12 AWG=25 amps or 120 volts 3000=watts-20%=2400 watts useable/220 volt=5500 watts-20%=4400 watts useable

10 AWG=40 amps or 120 volt  4800=watts-20%=3840 watts useable/220 volts=8800 watts-20%=7040 watts useable

8 AWG=60 amps or 120 volt  7200=watts-20%=5760 watts useable/220 volts=13200 watts-20%=10560 watts useable

Get some 6 inch pieces of different gauge wire from home depot & pull the cover off the breaker panel & just hold a piece of sample wire near the wire going into the breaker until you have a match.

DO NOT TOUCH ANY WIRES OR OTHER PARTS,YOU MAY GET SHOCKED.Just a CYA 

THESE ARE ESTIMATES,CHECK WITH AN ELECTRICIAN FIRST!!!!!

The wire ampacity was mentioned, however the wire comparison was not because it isn't relevant to the topic. Also your information is incorrect so your not really helping anyone