Residential Limit 15amp or 20amp?

[zedicus]

Im in the states.. Im just wondering what everyone's power limit is at?

Im not sure what i got goin on.. i may end up calling an electrician before more mining gear gets here...


Anyone know the cost of getting an electrician to upgrade you to 30 - 50amp?  Whats everyone's experience?

[1713990325]

1713990325

[1713990325]

1713990325

[daddyfatsax]

I personally am running a 20 amp fuse, not breaker. I have an old house, like 1952, and live in the Southern US.

As far as an electrician and wiring, that depends on a number of factors. Local codes, how big your place is, max amps your house can pull, and 500 more.

I don't have that much mining gear now. Only running a 1000w and 750w PSU now.

[Pentax]

Im in the states.. Im just wondering what everyone's power limit is at?

Im not sure what i got goin on.. i may end up calling an electrician before more mining gear gets here...


Anyone know the cost of getting an electrician to upgrade you to 30 - 50amp?  Whats everyone's experience?

Well I've been thinking about this also. 

I used this calculator to calculate my wattage.:  http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/volts-watts-amps-converter

The one I've seen, for instance, indicate 1050 watts, so they are pulling about 8.75 amps on standard 110-120 V AC current.  That shouldn't overload a circuit, although depending on what else is on it, you might have to be careful about where you plug it in or you'll be dumping the circuit if something else kicks in.  You'll have to check your breaker panel to find a decent circuit to run it from.  Bottom line, I'd run it off a 20 amp and limit what else is running on that circuit if at all possible.

you will cut your energy consumption if you can run on 220-240, which will depend on your unit.  That's monayz in the bank, so you may want to call an electrician to run you a dedicated circuit for that purpose.  Cost?  Dunno.  That will depend on a lot of things.  Among them:

1.  Will your panel accept this sort of breaker
2.  Does your panel have room for this breaker
3.  How long is the run from the panel to where you want to run this thing

etc., etc., etc.  Bottom line if you want to do this you'll probably have to have an electrician out to give you an estimate.

[LostDutchman]

Im in the states.. Im just wondering what everyone's power limit is at?

Im not sure what i got goin on.. i may end up calling an electrician before more mining gear gets here...


Anyone know the cost of getting an electrician to upgrade you to 30 - 50amp?  Whats everyone's experience?

OK, you are confusing the capacity of individual lines in the house with the total incoming service.

The two have only a limited relationship.

Depending on when your house was built and depending on when and if there have been upgrades to your electrical service, you will have pretty much have 60, 100 or 200 amp service.

You'll have to contact your local power company to find out.

Now this is what my partners and myself have done.

A few years back in the height of the foreclosure crisis, we each bought nifty-fifties ranch style homes with basements.  We moved the furnace/AC and hot water tanks out of the basements to ground floor or attic locations, leaving the entire basements essentialyl free span except for the beam supporting posts.  This was not originally done with crypto mining in mind but it is going to work out well for it.

In my area we can get 400 amp incoming service, 88,000 watts, brought in by the utility company and the wiring upgrade cost around USD $2.5K per home.

We can run a shit ton of miners with 88,000 watss capacity and still run the entire home.

We had the electrician who had pulled the permit to hook up the existing house wiring to the new breaker box and weatherhead, leaving the rest of the breakers not hooked to anything, telling the city inpspector that those were for future use and we'd get back to him.

About three minutes after the inspector signed off on the job I was busily running new circuits in preparation for mining as we are using these three locations for the upcoming mining farm offering; Lost Dutchman Mining.

Now in your case, remember that a single wall socket is only good for about 2500 watts max, so if you are going to run a bunch of miners, you're going to have to have a lot of 30 amp lines coming off your breaker box.

To do what you want to do you need to contact a couple of local electicians and get competitive bids as such bids could vary wildly but hit me up any time via PM and I'll give you whatever advice I can.

Thanks for reading and best wishes to you!

My $.02.

[nexus99]

Im in the states.. Im just wondering what everyone's power limit is at?

Im not sure what i got goin on.. i may end up calling an electrician before more mining gear gets here...


Anyone know the cost of getting an electrician to upgrade you to 30 - 50amp?  Whats everyone's experience?

OK, you are confusing the capacity of individual lines in the house with the total incoming service.

The two have only a limited relationship.

Depending on when your house was built and depending on when and if there have been upgrades to your electrical service, you will have pretty much have 60, 100 or 200 amp service.

You'll have to contact your local power company to find out.

Now this is what my partners and myself have done.

A few years back in the height of the foreclosure crisis, we each bought nifty-fifties ranch style homes with basements.  We moved the furnace/AC and hot water tanks out of the basements to ground floor or attic locations, leaving the entire basements essentialyl free span except for the beam supporting posts.  This was not originally done with crypto mining in mind but it is going to work out well for it.

In my area we can get 400 amp incoming service, 88,000 watts, brought in by the utility company and the wiring upgrade cost around USD $2.5K per home.

We can run a shit ton of miners with 88,000 watss capacity and still run the entire home.

We had the electrician who had pulled the permit to hook up the existing house wiring to the new breaker box and weatherhead, leaving the rest of the breakers not hooked to anything, telling the city inpspector that those were for future use and we'd get back to him.

About three minutes after the inspector signed off on the job I was busily running new circuits in preparation for mining as we are using these three locations for the upcoming mining farm offering; Lost Dutchman Mining.

Now in your case, remember that a single wall socket is only good for about 2500 watts max, so if you are going to run a bunch of miners, you're going to have to have a lot of 30 amp lines coming off your breaker box.

To do what you want to do you need to contact a couple of local electicians and get competitive bids as such bids could vary wildly but hit me up any time via PM and I'll give you whatever advice I can.

Thanks for reading and best wishes to you!

My $.02.

Can you say... grow house? :-)

[LostDutchman]

Im in the states.. Im just wondering what everyone's power limit is at?

Im not sure what i got goin on.. i may end up calling an electrician before more mining gear gets here...


Anyone know the cost of getting an electrician to upgrade you to 30 - 50amp?  Whats everyone's experience?

OK, you are confusing the capacity of individual lines in the house with the total incoming service.

The two have only a limited relationship.

Depending on when your house was built and depending on when and if there have been upgrades to your electrical service, you will have pretty much have 60, 100 or 200 amp service.

You'll have to contact your local power company to find out.

Now this is what my partners and myself have done.

A few years back in the height of the foreclosure crisis, we each bought nifty-fifties ranch style homes with basements.  We moved the furnace/AC and hot water tanks out of the basements to ground floor or attic locations, leaving the entire basements essentialyl free span except for the beam supporting posts.  This was not originally done with crypto mining in mind but it is going to work out well for it.

In my area we can get 400 amp incoming service, 88,000 watts, brought in by the utility company and the wiring upgrade cost around USD $2.5K per home.

We can run a shit ton of miners with 88,000 watss capacity and still run the entire home.

We had the electrician who had pulled the permit to hook up the existing house wiring to the new breaker box and weatherhead, leaving the rest of the breakers not hooked to anything, telling the city inpspector that those were for future use and we'd get back to him.

About three minutes after the inspector signed off on the job I was busily running new circuits in preparation for mining as we are using these three locations for the upcoming mining farm offering; Lost Dutchman Mining.

Now in your case, remember that a single wall socket is only good for about 2500 watts max, so if you are going to run a bunch of miners, you're going to have to have a lot of 30 amp lines coming off your breaker box.

To do what you want to do you need to contact a couple of local electicians and get competitive bids as such bids could vary wildly but hit me up any time via PM and I'll give you whatever advice I can.

Thanks for reading and best wishes to you!

My $.02.

Can you say... grow house? :-)

LOL!

Been there, done that about 30 years ago!

Actually we stirpped the basements for the storage of our antique and classic cars, what with all of us being total gearheads.

To do gowhouses would require lots of insulation but that is another story...................

[nexus99]

:-)  Were you going to build elevators into the garage to get the cars down to the basement? Also, what are you planning to be your mining hardware platform? I will be expanding out to a small 10 TH/S farm the middle of next year and I am captivated by the folks that go really big.

[LostDutchman]

:-)  Were you going to build elevators into the garage to get the cars down to the basement? Also, what are you planning to be your mining hardware platform? I will be expanding out to a small 10 TH/S farm the middle of next year and I am captivated by the folks that go really big.

No, the houses all have basement garages with overhad doors which we have closed up now with proper insulation, etc.

We are going to do primarily altcoin mining with at least some ASIC rigs, providing that such equipment is available in a time frame which ensures profitability before difficulty becomes to high.  We are in negotiation with several ASIC manufacturers to provide us with at least prototypical equipment for real-world live testing but the outcome of those negotiations remain to be seen.  Tell you this though, anyone who will work with us is real and we will promote them in return.

Scrypt equipment can be constructed from readily available components and the Scryptcoins converted to Bitcoins if desired, so that is the road we are going to follow with Lost Dutchman Mining.

If someone orders a given hash rate the lag time is less than two weeks from cleared funds to active mining and most of that is shipping time of the components and assembly.

We can also get additional 400 amp services into the houses at residential rates by operating home-based businesses for which we will be licenced.

Anyway, long day here in Brownbackistan; the new name for Kansas since we now have an idiot for a governor.

Check you later!

[zedicus]

Hey thanks for chiming  in everyone!


Lostdutchman you are right.. i was confusing the capacity of individual lines with the total incoming!
( i clearly have more homework to do)

btw, holy crap you got a crazy setup.. I wish i had a basement, it would be on..

 my house was made in 85 and its about 2500 square feet.... this is my panel!



 

bedrooms and family room labeled 15 and the garage is 20. I have a one labeled dryer that says 30.

Hopefully i can add or upgrade the garage or the bedrooms without replacing the whole panel or paying thousands to have a wiring change.

Im thinking about setting up shop in the garage but i work from home and thats my office so i dont think i can stand the noise.

I guess right now the first rig will be fine.. @2100w in either the garage or bedroom.. ( maybe i can wheel it over to the garage from the bedroom when i sleep lol )


I planned on sucking down about 2100watts to start and then gradually bring in more replica rigs adding 2100watts each!
Im not going too nuts yet.. but i would like to get up to 15-20mhs if i could depending on any hurdles that may arise. Im eying a couple alt coins i want to mine.. so ill be splitting the task between the two.. 

Thanks again for the input everyone .. im going to do what lostdutchman suggested and ask the power company what amp service im getting. After that hopefully i can get the first rig setup and start thinking about a long term power plan. Im waiting for my gear to come in so i wont get started till the 13th or so..






 

[LostDutchman]

Hey thanks for chiming  in everyone!


Lostdutchman you are right.. i was confusing the capacity of individual lines with the total incoming!
( i clearly have more homework to do)

btw, holy crap you got a crazy setup.. I wish i had a basement, it would be on..

 
I planned on sucking down about 2100watts to start and then gradually bring in more replica rigs adding 2100watts each!
Im not going too nuts yet.. but i would like to get up to 15-20mhs if i could depending on any hurdles

Hey, man, we are 100% cool and thank you for your kind response!

I think from the looks of your box that you got 100 amp service but check it out.

Yeah, I have gone maybe crazy over mining but to use a trite phrase, it is "the wave of the future" for at least a while and long enough to provide myself, my associates and anyone who chooses to do business with us with comfortable retirements.

Hit me up any time and I'll do what I can to help you.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Now in your case, remember that a single wall socket is only good for about 2500 watts max, so if you are going to run a bunch of miners, you're going to have to have a lot of 30 amp lines coming off your breaker box.

You can't make a statement like that.  It depends on the outlet.  Continual loads should be derated 20%.

120V 15A = 1440W (120*15*0.8 )
120V 20A = 1920W (120*20*0.8 )
 
240V 15A = 2880W (240*15*0.8 )
240V 20A = 3840W (240*20*0.8 )
240V 30A = 5760W (240*30*0.8 )

There are 40A and 50A outlets but they are expensive and it is hard to find cost PDUs which match.  If you are running a custom line have an electrician (or DIY if you are competent) install a 30A breaker, 10AWG branch line, and a NEMA L6-30R outlet (240V, 30A, locking).  Then pickup a cheap used datacenter PDU with a NEMA L6-30P plug.  Good for a solid 5.76KW.  Better yet install two and you are covered for 11.5KW.  That should be good for 14 TH/s or rigs @ 0.8 J/GH.  Beyond that your largest challenge will be cooling not power.  

[LostDutchman]

Now in your case, remember that a single wall socket is only good for about 2500 watts max, so if you are going to run a bunch of miners, you're going to have to have a lot of 30 amp lines coming off your breaker box.

You can't make a statement like that.  It depends on the outlet.  Continual loads should be derated 20%.

120V 15A = 1440W (120*15*0.
120V 20A = 1920W (120*20*0.
 
240V 15A = 2880W (240*15*0.
240V 20A = 3840W (240*20*0.
240V 30A = 5760W (240*30*0.

There are 40A and 50A outlets but they are expensive and it is hard to find cost PDUs which match.  If you are running a custom line have an electrician (or DIY if you are competent) install a 30A breaker, 10AWG branch line, and a NEMA L6-30R outlet (240V, 30A, locking).  Then pickup a cheap used datacenter PDU with a NEMA L6-30P plug.  Good for a solid 5.76KW.  Better yet install two and you are covered for 11.5KW.  That should be good for 14 TH/s or rigs @ 0.8 J/GH.  Beyond that your largest challenge will be cooling not power. 

You are correct but I was referring to the average residential installation, which is what the OP is dealing with.

Thank you for your input and advice.

Many people will plug in a power strip to an ordinary outlet, hook up a toaster, a coffee pot, a waffle iron, a microwave, a small TV for the ktichen and then wonder why the breaker trips or the house burns down and we don't want any of that!

Thanks again for you post as it contains very important information!

My $.02.

[nexus99]

There are 40A and 50A outlets but they are expensive and it is hard to find cost PDUs which match.  If you are running a custom line have an electrician (or DIY if you are competent) install a 30A breaker, 10AWG branch line, and a NEMA L6-30R outlet (240V, 30A, locking).  Then pickup a cheap used datacenter PDU with a NEMA L6-30P plug.  Good for a solid 5.76KW.  Better yet install two and you are covered for 11.5KW.  That should be good for 14 TH/s or rigs @ 0.8 J/GH.  Beyond that your largest challenge will be cooling not power. 

This is excellent advice. I am moving to a new home in a few weeks and that is the 2nd modification I am having made to the basement. 2x 30AMP 240V circuits.

[zedicus]

Now in your case, remember that a single wall socket is only good for about 2500 watts max, so if you are going to run a bunch of miners, you're going to have to have a lot of 30 amp lines coming off your breaker box.

You can't make a statement like that.  It depends on the outlet.  Continual loads should be derated 20%.

120V 15A = 1440W (120*15*0.
120V 20A = 1920W (120*20*0.
 
240V 15A = 2880W (240*15*0.
240V 20A = 3840W (240*20*0.
240V 30A = 5760W (240*30*0.

There are 40A and 50A outlets but they are expensive and it is hard to find cost PDUs which match.  If you are running a custom line have an electrician (or DIY if you are competent) install a 30A breaker, 10AWG branch line, and a NEMA L6-30R outlet (240V, 30A, locking).  Then pickup a cheap used datacenter PDU with a NEMA L6-30P plug.  Good for a solid 5.76KW.  Better yet install two and you are covered for 11.5KW.  That should be good for 14 TH/s or rigs @ 0.8 J/GH.  Beyond that your largest challenge will be cooling not power.  

DeathAndTaxes! Thank you for your input its very much appreciated! You guys seem to have a serious grip on electricity !!


if im not mistaken 120v is for the USA and 240v is for EU. So on the list you made the second one applies to me right, im in the states..?

120V 20A = 1920W  120*20*0.8

Do you mean: 2400w


Does that mean on one socket i cant go above 1920w 2400w! Is there some kind of ettiqute in terms of leaving some cushion or can you go pedal to the medal and use all the juice it can give?



I take it this is for sockets in EU and not US, same with the connector on the pdu? ( NEMA L6-30R )

[nexus99]

You can have 240 installed in homes in the USA as well. This is what electric dryers run on.

[zedicus]

You can have 240 installed in homes in the USA as well. This is what electric dryers run on.

Oh i see!! Forgive my ignorance..

[bobsag3]

There are 40A and 50A outlets but they are expensive and it is hard to find cost PDUs which match.  If you are running a custom line have an electrician (or DIY if you are competent) install a 30A breaker, 10AWG branch line, and a NEMA L6-30R outlet (240V, 30A, locking).  Then pickup a cheap used datacenter PDU with a NEMA L6-30P plug.  Good for a solid 5.76KW.  Better yet install two and you are covered for 11.5KW.  That should be good for 14 TH/s or rigs @ 0.8 J/GH.  Beyond that your largest challenge will be cooling not power. 

This is excellent advice. I am moving to a new home in a few weeks and that is the 2nd modification I am having made to the basement. 2x 30AMP 240V circuits.

D&T, im stealing this.

[xzempt]

Just checked the panel box in basement... I've got room for 9 more breakers!

[DeathAndTaxes]

120V 20A = 1920W  120*20*0.8
Do you mean: 2400w

No.  In the US a continual load can't use more than 80% of the circuits capacity.  I just realized the 0.8 got changed into a smiley so I fixed that.

So in the US a 120V, 20A circuit is rated for 2400W PEAK however continual loads should not exceed 80% of that  2400W * 0.80 = 1920W.

Higher current = higher heat.  House wiring is sized under the assumption that the load will vary and that is easier to cool.  Now you "can" pull 2400W from a 20A breaker continually but that would be a violation of the NEC as the wire would be under greater resistance that intended for continual use and the breaker won't trip.  In theory if the wiring was substandard, or faulty, or corroded due to age it "could" cause a fire.  Now the risk is probably pretty low but the Electrical Code is designed to be conservative because it involves people's lives.  

I have no knowledge of European standards, outlets, or ratings but current, resistance, heat are pretty much universal so the same general concepts still apply.

Does that mean on one socket i cant go above 1920w 2400w! Is there some kind of ettiqute in terms of leaving some cushion or can you go pedal to the medal and use all the juice it can give?

Other than the 20% derate for continual loads, yes.  So the 1920W not the 2400W is the correct figure if you are running a load continually (like a 24/7 miner).

I take it this is for sockets in EU and not US, same with the connector on the pdu? ( NEMA L6-30R )

No.  NEMA is Noth American Electrical Manuacturers Association.  They are all US outlets.  The NEMA 5-15 is the "standard" US wall outlet.  The NEMA L6-30 is a 30A, 240V outlet which uses a locking connector.


Here is an example I just like the photo not trying to give this seller any business:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-AP9571-1U-Rackmount-PDU-208V-24A-12-C13-Outlets-/261343426014?pt=US_Power_Distribution_Units&hash=item3cd94835de

There are tons and tons and tons of this PDU (PDU = fancy name for datacenter high current power strip).  APC probably makes a couple millions so there are always used ones on ebay for cheap.

It has a NEMA L6-30P plug.  The plug is rated for 30A but you will notice in the description it says 24A.   Why?  NEC requires that continual loads be derated 20%.  30A * 0.8 = 24A.  24A * 240V = 5760W.

Note the official specs are 208V because they were designed for datacenters but they work fine at 240V as well.  It is simply a "power strip" with circuit breaker there are no electronics which require a specific voltage.  


So:
30A breaker ------> 10 AWG wiring -------> NEMA L6-30R outlet ------> AP9571 (w/ L6-30P plug).
You now have 5760W of mining power, done right and safe.  The PDU gives you 12 outlets so no matter how your rigs are configured you are good to go.

I ran 12KW of GPUs off three of these.   

[NetTime]

120V 20A = 1920W  120*20*0.8
Do you mean: 2400w

No.  In the US a continual load can't use more than 80% of the circuits capacity.  I just realized the 0.8 got changed into a smiley so I fixed that.

So in the US a 120V, 20A circuit is rated for 2400W PEAK however continual loads should not exceed 80% of that  2400W * 0.80 = 1920W.

Higher current = higher heat.  House wiring is sized under the assumption that the load will vary and that is easier to cool.  Now you "can" pull 2400W from a 20A breaker continually but that would be a violation of the NEC as the wire would be under greater resistance that intended for continual use and the breaker won't trip.  In theory if the wiring was substandard, or faulty, or corroded due to age it "could" cause a fire.  Now the risk is probably pretty low but the Electrical Code is designed to be conservative because it involves people's lives.  

I have no knowledge of European standards, outlets, or ratings but current, resistance, heat are pretty much universal so the same general concepts still apply.

Does that mean on one socket i cant go above 1920w 2400w! Is there some kind of ettiqute in terms of leaving some cushion or can you go pedal to the medal and use all the juice it can give?

Other than the 20% derate for continual loads, yes.  So the 1920W not the 2400W is the correct figure if you are running a load continually (like a 24/7 miner).

I take it this is for sockets in EU and not US, same with the connector on the pdu? ( NEMA L6-30R )

No.  NEMA is Noth American Electrical Manuacturers Association.  They are all US outlets.  The NEMA 5-15 is the "standard" US wall outlet.  The NEMA L6-30 is a 30A, 240V outlet which uses a locking connector.


Here is an example I just like the photo not trying to give this seller any business:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-AP9571-1U-Rackmount-PDU-208V-24A-12-C13-Outlets-/261343426014?pt=US_Power_Distribution_Units&hash=item3cd94835de

There are tons and tons and tons of this PDU (PDU = fancy name for datacenter high current power strip).  APC probably makes a couple millions so there are always used ones on ebay for cheap.

It has a NEMA L6-30P plug.  The plug is rated for 30A but you will notice in the description it says 24A.   Why?  NEC requires that continual loads be derated 20%.  30A * 0.8 = 24A.  24A * 240V = 5760W.

Note the official specs are 208V because they were designed for datacenters but they work fine at 240V as well.  It is simply a "power strip" with circuit breaker there are no electronics which require a specific voltage.  


So:
30A breaker ------> 10 AWG wiring -------> NEMA L6-30R outlet ------> AP9571 (w/ L6-30P plug).
You now have 5760W of mining power, done right and safe.  The PDU gives you 12 outlets so no matter how your rigs are configured you are good to go.

I ran 12KW of GPUs off three of these.   

This is great info thanks for the writeup D+T!